Do commandments and threats negate free will?

[clancy]

Yes true. I think evidence of ID is all we will be able to detect with our limited knowledge. This and evidence the universe had a beginning is enough proof.

Most people who don't believe in God usually just have "daddy" issues anyway. Either that or they just have issues period.

 

[MsPoppy]

You are right it isn't that complicated. Some people like to complicate things to hide their intentions. In this case people want to throw in a bunch of "influences" and pretend they don't decide anything. That way they aren't responsible for their actions.

Sometimes it's very complicated. The decision to end life support for my partner of 24 years was not easy. I wonder what evil or unresponsible intention I had that made it hard to decide. My god, I must be a useless horrible person for not just making a decision in a nano-second.


By comparison however, the decision to put savvy on ignore was not complicated at all. There was barely any thought process used.

 

[savvy]

You are right it isn't that complicated. Some people like to complicate things to hide their intentions. In this case people want to throw in a bunch of "influences" and pretend they don't decide anything. That way they aren't responsible for their actions.

This is true. Some decisions may be difficult but not overly complicated unless a person makes it that way.

 

[MsPoppy]

True. All thinking theists realize that. I've had believers tell me the reason God doesn't prove his existence is because he wants us to believe in him by faith. Their argument is valid. Although I fail to see the virtue in believing by faith.

The point of steadfastness of faith was once brought to my attention and adds a sort of dimension to it. I suppose the virtue might be in elements like steadfastness, not just the original leap of believing in what is unseen. It is easy to have faith when open to possibilities, like, say, children can be. Being adults, there might need to be a sort of action attached to it to sustain it. At least with me this is true.
I suspect that to a person that doesn't operate under theological/spiritual faith it might seem fuzzy ...or even faded out if in the past they experienced this sort of faith.

 

[MrHeinz]

This is true. Some decisions may be difficult but not overly complicated unless a person makes it that way.

Free will is free will. It really doesn't matter what outside influences there are a choice is made.

 

[MrHeinz]

Most people who don't believe in God usually just have "daddy" issues anyway. Either that or they just have issues period.

Spot on.

 

[Greatest I am]

Atheists say they use reason and logic when it is really lies mostly.

Atheist I am sure would not agree.

Not as many lies as those who know all kinds of things about an unfathomable God and are based on belief in fantasy, miracles and magic.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Yes true. I think evidence of ID is all we will be able to detect with our limited knowledge. This and evidence the universe had a beginning is enough proof.

If so, why did the I D side used lies in the I D trial?

The judge was not happy.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

There will never be enough evidence for some people. Although I don't see how science can prove that God exists given that all we know of science comes from only a part of the universe we live in. What we know doesn't even cover our own universe so how is science to prove anything at this point. I think it is foolish to think science will ever prove anything beyond our existence.

You are right in that science cannot prove the existence ornon-existence of God.
I know of no scientist stupid enough to even try.

Believers are making the claim of God's existence and it is to them to make their case.

The world is still waiting after all this time.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Nah. At most, They inform free will. Knowing the consequences never prevents us from behaving however we wish. It just gives us more to consider when making the decision whether or not to act.

I agree that for an informed decision consequences or information must be known.

You will note that in the case of God and heaven or hell, we have almost nothing to base our choice of those on.

That is why I think God was unjust in Eden when punishing AS & E with consequences that only the talking snake spoke of and even then, not all consequences were ever given to A & E from which to base their choice on.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

You are right it isn't that complicated. Some people like to complicate things to hide their intentions. In this case people want to throw in a bunch of "influences" and pretend they don't decide anything. That way they aren't responsible for their actions.

Does that apply to Christians who want to use Jesus as their scapegoat instead of taking responsibility for their actions and sins?

Is it moral to try to profit from God having his son murdered when there was no real need to?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Free will is free will. It really doesn't matter what outside influences there are a choice is made.

So God's hell, a gun to your head basically, does not matter to what you decide?
Why does God bother putting the gun to your head then?

Regards
DL

 

[darkcgi]

the answer to free will is that there isn't an answer thats the beauty of it

 

[darkcgi]

its choice select and if not chosen then it is fate
If you do not choose then fate will

 

[Mercury]

its choice select and if not chosen then it is fate
If you do not choose then fate will

This is actually pretty interesting ... I have also wondered if "Fate" and "Free Will" don't both play an equal part in the universe. As if maybe they play off each other and coincide together in a matter that we simply could never truly understand or have a long way to go before scraping the surface.

 

[Greatest I am]

This is actually pretty interesting ... I have also wondered if "Fate" and "Free Will" don't both play an equal part in the universe. As if maybe they play off each other and coincide together in a matter that we simply could never truly understand or have a long way to go before scraping the surface.

It gets even more interesting when you throw pre-destination into the mix.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related

If all is then we are all innocent and for God to punish the innocent, while scriptures do show that he does, would be quite immoral on his part.

Regards
DL

 

[Accountable]

If predestination is real then the whole game is rigged and pointless. I don't like being pointless so I reject predestination.

 

[savvy]

its choice select and if not chosen then it is fate
If you do not choose then fate will

If you choose not to choose you have still made a choice and exercised your free will.

 

[savvy]

You are right in that science cannot prove the existence ornon-existence of God.
I know of no scientist stupid enough to even try.

Believers are making the claim of God's existence and it is to them to make their case.

The world is still waiting after all this time.

Regards
DL

Of course. Science doesn't have the knowledge to prove God's existence so it isn't a scientific responsibility.

 

[MrHeinz]

So God's hell, a gun to your head basically, does not matter to what you decide?
Why does God bother putting the gun to your head then?

Regards
DL

There is no gun to your head. You are trying to play victim here. You are the one with the gun to your own head. It is your choice whether or not the trigger is pulled and it isn't the gun's fault many people make such a dumb decision.