Difference of Opinion

[Minor Axis]

Excellent point. :thumbup
Unfortunately, many have simply replaced the dogma of religion for the dogma of anti-religion. Was your use of 'hedge-your-bets' pejorative or simply an observation? I ask because I'm guessing that all true scientists and most religious people allow for unknown possibilities.

I have no distain for 'hedge-your-bets' or the hook, line, and sinker types who 'KNOW' the truth. We are all on our journey, receptive to what we can personally feel or imagine. Based on what I have experienced in my life, I can definitely entertain myself questioning other people's religious views because I think there is a WHOLE BUNCH OF ASSUMING GO ON!

Now maybe the devote religious types in this forum who profess to having a direct line to God really do. But then I'd have to question, why is God holding back from me? (Don't read more into this than what's there.) I don't believe that something as powerful as God would have to be imagined to make contact. You start out as basically an innocent child, new to the world. I don't believe that you have to become a good person or meet some standard to become aware of a divine parent. If this parent really cared about you, it would be involved in your life from the start. There would be no guessing involved. The much more likely explanation is that there is a WHOLE BUNCH OF ASSUMING GOING ON!

 

[edgray]

Your statements and stated opinions go well beyond what the statistics support. Your statements and stated opinions are absolute and don't allow for exceptions. Indeed, any exceptions are discounted out-of-hand.
I, on the other hand, don't think the idea is even relevant to anything beyond trivia, and so am willing to listen to elitists of every stripe and only reject their ideas when I believe they become too extreme.

well beyond a direct correlation? that seems confusing to me.

An uptake of scientific understanding in a given society represents the open-mindedness of that society because, an uptake of science is an admission that there are things we do not know, there are things we do not yet understand, and it encourages the process of discovery, free from any potentially hindering doctrine. It has no answer, so it needs to look for it.

Given the variables involved here:

a) percentage of people that believe in God
b) level of education of people within said society

We can break this disagreement with science down a little. The US isn't any more poorly educated than most western nations. It follows the international baccalaureate standard, the same as most western countries, and houses a disproportionately large number of the world's top universities. So we can safely knock out poor education as a a reason. The US also produces a significant number of the world's peer-reviewed scientific journals, scientific documentaries, not to mention scientific discoveries.

So this leaves us with the percentage of people that believe in God.

Now there may very well be other factors at play. There may be a lot of other reasons as to why the citizens of a country might be closed off to the notion of evolution and science in general. But, there is no denying that as a country believes less in God, it looks for scientific answers instead.

As I said, there's only a small amount of research done on the subject, but it's putting up a very convincing case.

 

[sexysadie]

I have no distain for 'hedge-your-bets' or the hook, line, and sinker types who 'KNOW' the truth. We are all on our journey, receptive to what we can personally feel or imagine. Based on what I have experienced in my life, I can definitely entertain myself questioning other people's religious views because I think there is a WHOLE BUNCH OF ASSUMING GO ON!

Now maybe the devote religious types in this forum who profess to having a direct line to God really do. But then I'd have to question, why is God holding back from me? (Don't read more into this than what's there.) I don't believe that something as powerful as God would have to be imagined to make contact. You start out as basically an innocent child, new to the world. I don't believe that you have to become a good person or meet some standard to become aware of a divine parent. If this parent really cared about you, it would be involved in your life from the start. There would be no guessing involved. The much more likely explanation is that there is a WHOLE BUNCH OF ASSUMING GOING ON!

I don't 'assume' anything, I know. You ask why God has never made Himself known to you.....first of all I'd like to ask you this.....would you recognize Him if He ever did?

 

[mazHur]

By their educational level: bachelor of science, master of science, doctor of science.

This is fallacious outlook. A scientist cannot be an inventor but an inventor can be a scientist, better than most Ph.D's.
I experienced this personally and got enrolled with ASHRAE USA and some other Science Councils even though I am not a Ph.D!!

 

[Peter Parka]

I don't 'assume' anything, I know. You ask why God has never made Himself known to you.....first of all I'd like to ask you this.....would you recognize Him if He ever did?

This is true and this statement pretty much sums up why belief in him and doing what he wants dosen't matter. If he exists and it did matter to him, he would have made it clear.

 

[edgray]

This is fallacious outlook. A scientist cannot be an inventor but an inventor can be a scientist, better than most Ph.D's.
I experienced this personally and got enrolled with ASHRAE USA and some other Science Councils even though I am not a Ph.D!!

hang on you've lost me.

An inventor can be a scientist, better than most PhDs?

At science?

Well I'm sure it's possible, but if that is indeed the case, why is it most scientific breakthrough and study is spearheaded by PhDs, not inventors?

 

[Minor Axis]

I don't 'assume' anything, I know. You ask why God has never made Himself known to you.....first of all I'd like to ask you this.....would you recognize Him if He ever did?

Is that a belittling statement as in I am smart enough to recognize God, why aren't you? Lol. That's a matter of opinion. We differ. But using your standard, why, I'd just KNOW! And I said not to read more into my statement! It was philosophical. I don't sit around questioning why God has never spoken to me. I am not worried about it. If there are divine intentions, I see what I am intended to see.

So tell me, when a mysterious entity speaks to you, how do you know it's God? If the devil put on his best Sunday clothes, whispered that you he loved you, he has been watching over your your whole life, had your best interests at heart and was going to take care of your forever, would you recognize him for what he is? I know, you'd just KNOW.

Just admit that you rely on faith because there is nothing of substance that you can show anyone that confirms the existence of your Lord. And I don't hold that against you. Just don't hold me to your standard nor hold it against me.

 

[mazHur]

Bravo my friend. I find it hard to understand how anybody could read these words and accuse you of being close-minded, on the contrary, only the most open mind could possibly be so wise.

In general the Humans lack the ability to understand humans. Even if God came right before their noses they would not be able to grasp Him or His Entirety!!

 

[mazHur]

Is that a belittling statement as in I am smart enough to recognize God, why aren't you? Lol. That's a matter of opinion. We differ. And I said not to read more into my statement! It was philosophical. I don't sit around questioning why God has never spoken to me. I am not worried about it. I see what I am intended to see.

So tell me, when a mysterious entity speaks to you, how do you know it's God? If the devil put on his best Sunday clothes, whispered that you he loved you, he has been watching over your your whole life, had your best interests at heart and was going to take care of your forever, would you recognize him for what he is? I know, you'd just KNOW.

Just admit that you rely on faith because there is nothing of substance that you can show anyone that confirms the existence of your Lord. And I don't hold that against you. Just don't hold me to your standard nor hold it against me.

During my various travels to Japan I noted that the most senior staff of a Trading house such as Mitsui ,Toyoda, Mitsubishi, Yuasa or Sumitomo, etc etc had never seen or met their President even though they were working for the company for decades. Infact they had NOT even been to the Presidential floor. When I went to meet their President the Japanese staff member (as they are referred to in Japan) who escorted me took this opportunity as a 'great honor'' to be at the President's office and was beyond himself with it!
let this serve as an analogy to prove that God exists and He meets only whom He wants.
If humans could be so high and special there is no reason not to believe that God is Higher than anybody!!

and allow me to correct you, God or Jesus can never appear anywhere in the form of a devil....

 

[Dana]

Is that a belittling statement as in I am smart enough to recognize God, why aren't you? Lol. That's a matter of opinion. We differ. But using your standard, why, I'd just KNOW! And I said not to read more into my statement! It was philosophical. I don't sit around questioning why God has never spoken to me. I am not worried about it. If there are divine intentions, I see what I am intended to see.

So tell me, when a mysterious entity speaks to you, how do you know it's God? If the devil put on his best Sunday clothes, whispered that you he loved you, he has been watching over your your whole life, had your best interests at heart and was going to take care of your forever, would you recognize him for what he is? I know, you'd just KNOW.

Just admit that you rely on faith because there is nothing of substance that you can show anyone that confirms the existence of your Lord. And I don't hold that against you. Just don't hold me to your standard nor hold it against me.

No it sounds more like shes saying if God came down nobody would know... It's like that show Joan Of Arcadia.

 

[Minor Axis]

In general the Humans lack the ability to understand humans. Even if God came right before their noses they would not be able to grasp Him or His Entirety!!

How with any certainty can you say you could discern God from the Devil or an extremely advanced life form who could from our perspective do Godly things? Would you check his ID?

 

[edgray]

In general the Humans lack the ability to understand humans.

It is true, the human is an elusive creature, in spite of being surrounded by them, and being them ourselves, our understanding of humans is limited.

But, we're starting to get a very concise picture these days. We're understanding the function of our genes, we're understanding their relationship to the environment around them. We're understanding how our minds and our personalities are formed.

We're really just scraping the surface of what a human being actually is right now.

In regards to God, if He were to present Himself, whilst you are correct in the sense that few would understand the magnitude of His being, I am pretty sure that most people would realise what they were looking at.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

So let me get this straight....once upon a time you believed in God and then you read some scientific explanation which in turn, made you believe in evolution instead?

Incorrect.

 

[mazHur]

This is true and this statement pretty much sums up why belief in him and doing what he wants dosen't matter. If he exists and it did matter to him, he would have made it clear.

Normally have you ever seen the director or producer of a movie on the screen??? God is much too big for you to understand! Keep going the way you do...HE will catch you someday and grant you your wish!!

 

[mazHur]

How with any certainty can you say you could discern God from the Devil or an extremely advanced life form who could from our perspective do Godly things? Would you check his ID?

I can discern good from bad as I can do right here!!

 

[mazHur]

It is true, the human is an elusive creature, in spite of being surrounded by them, and being them ourselves, our understanding of humans is limited.

But, we're starting to get a very concise picture these days. We're understanding the function of our genes, we're understanding their relationship to the environment around them. We're understanding how our minds and our personalities are formed.

We're really just scraping the surface of what a human being actually is right now.

In regards to God, if He were to present Himself, whilst you are correct in the sense that few would understand the magnitude of His being, I am pretty sure that most people would realise what they were looking at.

Ed, I agree with you insofar as things relate to the physical side of the world. there is much much more not only in the physical world yet to be discovered but also what lies behind the 'Spiritual' side of things. I don't think human beings are complete in their existence without the Spiritual side...about which very little is known yet!

 

[Minor Axis]

let this serve as an analogy to prove that God exists and He meets only whom He wants. If humans could be so high and special there is no reason not to believe that God is Higher than anybody!!

Your standard of proof is completely without any form of logical merit. Ask anyone.

and allow me to correct you, God or Jesus can never appear anywhere in the form of a devil....

You can prove this, correct? :smiley24:. Secondly you missed the point as usual.

No it sounds more like shes saying if God came down nobody would know... It's like that show Joan Of Arcadia.

Wrong! Sadie would know.

I can discern good from bad as I can do right here!!

You spend a lot of time judging. This has no bearing on the wisdom of your judgments.

 

[sexysadie]

Is that a belittling statement as in I am smart enough to recognize God, why aren't you? Lol. That's a matter of opinion. We differ. But using your standard, why, I'd just KNOW! And I said not to read more into my statement! It was philosophical. I don't sit around questioning why God has never spoken to me. I am not worried about it. If there are divine intentions, I see what I am intended to see.

So tell me, when a mysterious entity speaks to you, how do you know it's God? If the devil put on his best Sunday clothes, whispered that you he loved you, he has been watching over your your whole life, had your best interests at heart and was going to take care of your forever, would you recognize him for what he is? I know, you'd just KNOW.

Just admit that you rely on faith because there is nothing of substance that you can show anyone that confirms the existence of your Lord. And I don't hold that against you. Just don't hold me to your standard nor hold it against me.

I dont hold anything against you, and you're right, as far as any non believer is and ever will be concerned, my faith is probably the only evidence I'll ever have to offer.........But you see, God has already proven His existence. Proof that could never be surpassed...... and if you're awaiting a repeat performance, you're the one who's as delusional as you so obviously think I am. I'm quite convinced that my faith makes absolutely no sense to you, but please forgive me and understand my plight as well.......you see, your ignorance makes no sense to me either.

 

[sexysadie]

Incorrect.

So how does one bellieve in God one day and then not believe the next? Are you so easily swayed?

 

[sexysadie]

Is that a belittling statement as in I am smart enough to recognize God, why aren't you? Lol. That's a matter of opinion. We differ. But using your standard, why, I'd just KNOW! And I said not to read more into my statement! It was philosophical. I don't sit around questioning why God has never spoken to me. I am not worried about it. If there are divine intentions, I see what I am intended to see.

So tell me, when a mysterious entity speaks to you, how do you know it's God? If the devil put on his best Sunday clothes, whispered that you he loved you, he has been watching over your your whole life, had your best interests at heart and was going to take care of your forever, would you recognize him for what he is? I know, you'd just KNOW.

Just admit that you rely on faith because there is nothing of substance that you can show anyone that confirms the existence of your Lord. And I don't hold that against you. Just don't hold me to your standard nor hold it against me.

So you believe in the Devil?