Did Jesus exist?

[darkangel]

Here is my whole problem with peoples beliefs. Step outside and look at what you just said. You believe something because you were taught that to be true. So in other words, because they were convincing in their story telling, you subscribe to that faith. Have you ever considered the fact that if you were born into a Muslim family that you would be telling us that Mohammad is the true profit. And you would be arguing that it's your belief because that is what you were taught as a little girl. Or what if you were born into a family of Buddhists? Would you then believe in that?
My point is people believe what they believe because of where they were born and into what family they were born into. There are very few that have escaped the dogma of what they learned early in life to actually seek out the truth. And those who have usually end up the atheists.

Sorry that i have to quote your whole post but I grew up in a mixed religious family. My father is Jewish. I have 1 sister who is agnostic and 1 sister who is atheist. I have 1 brother who is a non practicing Jew and a mother who converted from Catholicism to Judaism. It was my choice to follow the religion after grammar school and even later into life. I don't go to church Tim because I don't believe in the church. I made a conscious decision on my own to follow the Catholic religion.

No religion is perfect and I don't believe that any religion has concrete proof that theirs is the true story of God. I know that you don't believe in faith by reading your signatures. But i have a strong belief in faith cuz it has worked in my life. That is the proof that I needed to keep believing in what I believe. I have had a miracle baby when i wasn't supposed to be able to have children after I had a stillborn. Science couldn't explain it. So my beliefs I have formed based on events in my life and that is why I still follow what i was taught. And I don't believe that you have to go to church for God to hear you and work in your life.

Thank you Tim for not bashing me about my beliefs. I really do appreciate it. Its been nice posting about religion without seeing any mudslinging. I usually do NOT post in religious threads due to this happening. I think this thread has really been a good one and I'm glad that I participated it it.

 

[Peter Parka]

Sorry that i have to quote your whole post but I grew up in a mixed religious family. My father is Jewish. I have 1 sister who is agnostic and 1 sister who is atheist. I have 1 brother who is a non practicing Jew and a mother who converted from Catholicism to Judaism. It was my choice to follow the religion after grammar school and even later into life. I don't go to church Tim because I don't believe in the church. I made a conscious decision on my own to follow the Catholic religion.

No religion is perfect and I don't believe that any religion has concrete proof that theirs is the true story of God. I know that you don't believe in faith by reading your signatures. But i have a strong belief in faith cuz it has worked in my life. That is the proof that I needed to keep believing in what I believe. I have had a miracle baby when i wasn't supposed to be able to have children after I had a stillborn. Science couldn't explain it. So my beliefs I have formed based on events in my life and that is why I still follow what i was taught. And I don't believe that you have to go to church for God to hear you and work in your life.

Thank you Tim for not bashing me about my beliefs. I really do appreciate it. Its been nice posting about religion without seeing any mudslinging. I usually do NOT post in religious threads due to this happening. I think this thread has really been a good one and I'm glad that I participated it it.

While I'm really glad for you that these events worked out in your life, do you not think there might be another reason other than god for them? How do you explain it when devout Catholics in Africa, for example, die of AIDS or starve to death ect?

 

[mazHur]

hmm...Peter does have a point there!!

 

[darkangel]

While I'm really glad for you that these events worked out in your life, do you not think there might be another reason other than god for them? How do you explain it when devout Catholics in Africa, for example, die of AIDS or starve to death ect?

Well to answer your first question they couldn't find any scientific reasons for me and my child both surviving the pregnancy. That doesn't leave much of an answer to how it happened. If science cant explain something then I believe it is Divine intervention. That's just my belief.

As for your 2nd question I am going to tell you something. I was married to the most wonderful man and 3 years after we married he got Pancreatic Cancer and passed away within a month of the diagnosis and a week and a day after a Whipple surgery. I was so mad at God for taking him from me because he was the best thing that happened in my entire life. Like the devout catholics who die of Aids or starve to death i have come to believe that it is just the balance of nature. Not everyone can live a full life. God doesn't play favorites. My husband was an Altar boy, a devout catholic and also fought in the Vietnam War. Nobody said that life is fair. And like I said God does not play favorites. When its your time to go you go. On a side note maybe God has better plans for the people that he takes early. I don't know and I think only God knows.

 

[porterjack]

Well to answer your first question they couldn't find any scientific reasons for me and my child both surviving the pregnancy. That doesn't leave much of an answer to how it happened. If science cant explain something then I believe it is Divine intervention. That's just my belief.

As for your 2nd question I am going to tell you something. I was married to the most wonderful man and 3 years after we married he got Pancreatic Cancer and passed away within a month of the diagnosis and a week and a day after a Whipple surgery. I was so mad at God for taking him from me because he was the best thing that happened in my entire life. Like the devout catholics who die of Aids or starve to death i have come to believe that it is just the balance of nature. Not everyone can live a full life. God doesn't play favorites. My husband was an Altar boy, a devout catholic and also fought in the Vietnam War. Nobody said that life is fair. And like I said God does not play favorites. When its your time to go you go. On a side note maybe God has better plans for the people that he takes early. I don't know and I think only God knows.

i admire your faith, i would have fallen into a big bottle if that happened to me

 

[mazHur]

Well to answer your first question they couldn't find any scientific reasons for me and my child both surviving the pregnancy. That doesn't leave much of an answer to how it happened. If science cant explain something then I believe it is Divine intervention. That's just my belief.

As for your 2nd question I am going to tell you something. I was married to the most wonderful man and 3 years after we married he got Pancreatic Cancer and passed away within a month of the diagnosis and a week and a day after a Whipple surgery. I was so mad at God for taking him from me because he was the best thing that happened in my entire life. Like the devout catholics who die of Aids or starve to death i have come to believe that it is just the balance of nature. Not everyone can live a full life. God doesn't play favorites. My husband was an Altar boy, a devout catholic and also fought in the Vietnam War. Nobody said that life is fair. And like I said God does not play favorites. When its your time to go you go. On a side note maybe God has better plans for the people that he takes early. I don't know and I think only God knows.

sorry to learn about the tragic experience you had....
Yeah, when everything fails there is God to get one through!

 

[Peter Parka]

Well to answer your first question they couldn't find any scientific reasons for me and my child both surviving the pregnancy. That doesn't leave much of an answer to how it happened. If science cant explain something then I believe it is Divine intervention. That's just my belief.

As for your 2nd question I am going to tell you something. I was married to the most wonderful man and 3 years after we married he got Pancreatic Cancer and passed away within a month of the diagnosis and a week and a day after a Whipple surgery. I was so mad at God for taking him from me because he was the best thing that happened in my entire life. Like the devout catholics who die of Aids or starve to death i have come to believe that it is just the balance of nature. Not everyone can live a full life. God doesn't play favorites. My husband was an Altar boy, a devout catholic and also fought in the Vietnam War. Nobody said that life is fair. And like I said God does not play favorites. When its your time to go you go. On a side note maybe God has better plans for the people that he takes early. I don't know and I think only God knows.

Science is always making new discoveries, no reason to think it might be god if it's unexplained.

I'm very sorry about your husband.
It dosen't explain one thing to me though, if god is responsible for stuff going right in your life, why is it suddenly not his fault if things go wrong? Seems a bit inconsistent. You said god dosen't play favourites so what makes you think he favoured you by the miracle of you giving birth? And I personally think ripping a husband away from his wife like that is barbaric if it was caused purposely by anyone.

 

[darkangel]

i admire your faith, i would have fallen into a big bottle if that happened to me

Thanks Porter. It was a very difficult time and October 6th will be 8 years since his passing.

sorry to learn about the tragic experience you had....
Yeah, when everything fails there is God to get one through!

Thnaks Maz. That is very true.

 

[mazHur]

Thanks Porter. It was a very difficult time and October 6th will be 8 years since his passing.

Thnaks Maz. That is very true.

I also lost my wife about 10 years ago...she just died in my arms during emergency treatment in a hospital!
Heart problem was it. Unfortunately, If it be taken that God willed it then where was SCience sleeping at that time?? This makes me believe that therre is something, someone HIGH AND ABOVE Science....or human intelligence!!

As Peter said Science is making newer and newer discoveries ...I agree with him but how long will it take for science to unravel all the secrets of life/nature if nothing comes out during our lives?? Needless, we cannot wait further than the DESTINED TIME--no one has!!

 

[darkangel]

Science is always making new discoveries, no reason to think it might be god if it's unexplained.

Well at the time which was 21 years ago there was absolutely no explanation. There possibly could be one now. But at the time that is what I believed and nothing has been brought to my attention to make me think otherwise.

I'm very sorry about your husband.

Thank you Peter. He really was a Godsend in my life.

It doesn't explain one thing to me though, if god is responsible for stuff going right in your life, why is it suddenly not his fault if things go wrong? Seems a bit inconsistent. You said god doesn't play favourites so what makes you think he favoured you by the miracle of you giving birth? And I personally think ripping a husband away from his wife like that is barbaric if it was caused purposely by anyone.

I believe that God does both good and things that we perceive as bad. Such as taking people early in their lives. I told you that I was mad at God for taking my husband. I believe that he took him which was not fair and not right. It seems to me that God is an equal opportunity good and bad entity if you want to call Him that. He causes both good things to happen and bad. The thing we will never know until our own death is the why of what God does.

 

[Francis]

While I'm really glad for you that these events worked out in your life, do you not think there might be another reason other than god for them? How do you explain it when devout Catholics in Africa, for example, die of AIDS or starve to death ect?

By far I am not religious and have said this many times..

But here is something I do believe in.. The power of the mind.. Believe in something strong enough and your mind can make it happen.. Perhaps that maybe what faith is to some.. Who cares, as long as it works.. The problem with belief is it must be unconditional and faith can give you that..

Read this, maybe it's true and perhaps it's not, but it does make you wonder..
http://miracles.mcn.org/aids.html

 

[Peter Parka]

I believe that God does both good and things that we perceive as bad. Such as taking people early in their lives. I told you that I was mad at God for taking my husband. I believe that he took him which was not fair and not right. It seems to me that God is an equal opportunity good and bad entity if you want to call Him that. He causes both good things to happen and bad. The thing we will never know until our own death is the why of what God does.

Seems to me you have a similar view to me, only difference is that I dont see myself responsible to anyone which is a big weight off my mind.
I believe one of the views put forth my Terry Pratchett about the meaning of life -

Things just happen, what the hell?

Just remembered this one from him too - SCIENCE: A way of finding things out and then making them work. Science explains what is happening around us the whole time. So does RELIGION, but science is better because it comes up with more understandable excuses when it is wrong. :thumbup

 

[itsmeJonB]

If God exists why does man still grow in wisdom teeth when the human skull evolved out of the stage where it can fit it in our heads

 

[darkangel]

Seems to me you have a similar view to me, only difference is that I dont see myself responsible to anyone which is a big weight off my mind.

Well I don't really see myself responsible to anyone else. I always liked the saying "To Thine own self be True."

I don't let God run my life. My life does not revolve around God. yet at the same time i know that He is a big part of my life and has made me who I am.

I believe one of the views put forth my Terry Pratchett about the meaning of life -

Things just happen, what the hell?

Would that be the same as we say "Shit happens...Lifes a bitch then you die!"?

Just remembered this one from him too - SCIENCE: A way of finding things out and then making them work. Science explains what is happening around us the whole time. So does RELIGION, but science is better because it comes up with more understandable excuses when it is wrong. :thumbup

I actually like that!!! It makes perfect sense!

 

[Peter Parka]

By far I am not religious and have said this many times..

But here is something I do believe in.. The power of the mind.. Believe in something strong enough and your mind can make it happen.. Perhaps that maybe what faith is to some.. Who cares, as long as it works.. The problem with belief is it must be unconditional and faith can give you that..

Read this, maybe it's true and perhaps it's not, but it does make you wonder..
http://miracles.mcn.org/aids.html

The amount of times I've believed stronger than anything in the world that my football team is going to win, it burns through my veins!!!

By the way, I support West Ham

 

[darkangel]

If God exists why does man still grow in wisdom teeth when the human skull evolved out of the stage where it can fit it in our heads

Because God thinks we are not as wise as he is? :dunno

 

[Francis]

The amount of times I've believed stronger than anything in the world that my football team is going to win, it burns through my veins!!!

By the way, I support West Ham

Which only goes to prove, you suck at faith..

Your competition keeps whopping your ass.. :24:

Time to start believing in a higher power and freaking better team.. Chealsea might be a better team, or even Tottenham..

 

[Peter Parka]

Which only goes to prove, you suck at faith..

Your competition keeps whopping your ass.. :24:

Time to start believing in a higher power and freaking better team.. Chealsea might be a better team, or even Tottenham..

I firmly believe in my heart that one day I will watch West Ham win the Premiership. I know is sounds ridiculous but so does Jesus being born to a virgin and there more people waiting for his winning moment.:thumbup

 

[dustsped]

Interesting points. I think at some point Jesus did exist at some point; he has a plan for every different one of us, it's just we don't know usually what that is, but things happen to each of us for some reason.

 

[Peter Parka]

Interesting points. I think at some point Jesus did exist at some point; he has a plan for every different one of us, it's just we don't know usually what that is, but things happen to each of us for some reason.

Sorry to pull a Godwins law here but what was the greater purpose behind Anne Frank's death? I'm sure she would have rather not be tortured to death than be a famous writer.