Did Jesus exist?

[cam elle toe]

The "Virgin" birth in "Spiritual" beliefs has nothing to do with Mary...she wasnt a virgin.

It has to do with how Jesus chose to reincarnate this time round, and if you do some research, you will see that this explanation makes MUCH more sense, and is more logical than some fanciful story about a virgin giving birth.


I TOTALLY believe Jesus existed...and learned his "miracles" through the Essenes, Egyptians and other cultures during the years the Bible has convenientally "erased" or referred to as the time he "wandered the dessert".

The "true" (or what I in my gut feel and believe to be true) story about Jesus life is WAY more interesting than the Fiction in the Bible.

and I'll answer ANY questions thrown my way about how and why I believe what I do....

I think Moonie touched on The Da Vinci Code...and as she said...the ideas in that book are NOT new....or made up by a fiction writer. He got his ideas from all the same books I have read.

 

[Minor Axis]

The "Virgin" birth in "Spiritual" beliefs has nothing to do with Mary...she wasnt a virgin.

It has to do with how Jesus chose to reincarnate this time round, and if you do some research, you will see that this explanation makes MUCH more sense, and is more logical than some fanciful story about a virgin giving birth.


I TOTALLY believe Jesus existed...and learned his "miracles" through the Essenes, Egyptians and other cultures during the years the Bible has convenientally "erased" or referred to as the time he "wandered the dessert".

The "true" (or what I in my gut feel and believe to be true) story about Jesus life is WAY more interesting than the Fiction in the Bible.

and I'll answer ANY questions thrown my way about how and why I believe what I do....

I think Moonie touched on The Da Vinci Code...and as she said...the ideas in that book are NOT new....or made up by a fiction writer. He got his ideas from all the same books I have read.

You believe Jesus existed based on? My understanding is that the only documents that contain any references to Jesus are religious scripts.

More importantly do you believe Jesus is the son of God (as described in the Bible)? If so why? The shorter the answer the better. I'm not asking for a chapter.

The Da Vinci Code was a faced paced intriguing read, although I acknowledge it as nothing more than fun fiction. I really liked how he blended in real architectural city details into his story. Brown did some religious research (or stole it depending on whom you listen too) and I liked the sound of some of his conclusions. Like the word "village" comes from the word "villian" because the church viewed villages as centers of Paganism, their main religious competition.

 

[Dana]

The "Virgin" birth in "Spiritual" beliefs has nothing to do with Mary...she wasnt a virgin.

It has to do with how Jesus chose to reincarnate this time round, and if you do some research, you will see that this explanation makes MUCH more sense, and is more logical than some fanciful story about a virgin giving birth.


I TOTALLY believe Jesus existed...and learned his "miracles" through the Essenes, Egyptians and other cultures during the years the Bible has convenientally "erased" or referred to as the time he "wandered the dessert".

The "true" (or what I in my gut feel and believe to be true) story about Jesus life is WAY more interesting than the Fiction in the Bible.

and I'll answer ANY questions thrown my way about how and why I believe what I do....

I think Moonie touched on The Da Vinci Code...and as she said...the ideas in that book are NOT new....or made up by a fiction writer. He got his ideas from all the same books I have read.

My problem is too many religions and too many forms of the Bible conflict with each other which makes it hard for me to believe this nonsense. Unless he was a great bullshitter theres no way to turn water into wine or make blind people of that era see.

 

[Minor Axis]

My problem is too many religions and too many forms of the Bible conflict with each other which makes it hard for me to believe this nonsense. Unless he was a great bullshitter theres no way to turn water into wine or make blind people of that era see.

What if all religions were on the same page- would that make it any easier to commit to God or are you seeking some kind of evidence?

 

[Dana]

What if all religions were on the same page- would that make it any easier to commit to God or are you seeking some kind of evidence?

the only thing ill commit to is this diet and a girlfriend. I believe in God or a higher power but I'm not going get sucked into the bible. You don't need religioon to believe in Gods there have been belief in God figures since the beginning of man.

 

[cam elle toe]

You believe Jesus existed based on? My understanding is that the only documents that contain any references to Jesus are religious scripts.

More importantly do you believe Jesus is the son of God (as described in the Bible)? If so why? The shorter the answer the better. I'm not asking for a chapter.

The Da Vinci Code was a faced paced intriguing read, although I acknowledge it as nothing more than fun fiction. I really liked how he blended in real architectural city details into his story. Brown did some religious research (or stole it depending on whom you listen too) and I liked the sound of some of his conclusions. Like the word "village" comes from the word "villian" because the church viewed villages as centers of Paganism, their main religious competition.

OOPS forgot about this....

I believe he existed because its not only Biblical references to him. I've read TOMES over my 40 years on the subject and have developed my own "theory" on life/ the afterlife/the BEFORElife/biblical "stories"/aliens etc.

I think Jesus and the Bible was already well covered as far as Historians go....thats why only "religious" references.

I think we are all "sons/daughters" of God...but NO, not the way described in the Bible.

I am sorry...I find it VERY hard to convert my beliefs to the written form...I find it much easier to talk about it face to face....I wish Snapvine was working...I'd be on a roll:nod:

 

[Minor Axis]

OOPS forgot about this....

I believe he existed because its not only Biblical references to him. I've read TOMES over my 40 years on the subject and have developed my own "theory" on life/ the afterlife/the BEFORElife/biblical "stories"/aliens etc.

I think Jesus and the Bible was already well covered as far as Historians go....thats why only "religious" references.

I think we are all "sons/daughters" of God...but NO, not the way described in the Bible.

I am sorry...I find it VERY hard to convert my beliefs to the written form...I find it much easier to talk about it face to face....I wish Snapvine was working...I'd be on a roll:nod:

By the tone of your response, I assume you don't believe that you must believe in Jesus to be admitted into heaven? Why would God make this stipulation? I've all ready spoken (in other threads) about the standard of belief as a requirement to open the pearly gates. I don't believe it because I don't believe in the big scheme it matters what you believe regarding a higher power. If you don't believe it, it's because you don't see it. That is not the individuals fault. More important is how you live your life and the lessons you learn during that life.

I don't trust any religious script written by humans because the source is questionable. Just my opinion.

 

[cam elle toe]

By the tone of your response, I assume you don't believe that you must believe in Jesus to be admitted into heaven? Why would God make this stipulation? I've all ready spoken (in other threads) about the standard of belief as a requirement to open the pearly gates. I don't believe it because I don't believe in the big scheme it matters what you believe regarding a higher power. If you don't believe it, it's because you don't see it. That is not the individuals fault. More important is how you live your life and the lessons you learn during that life.

I don't trust any religious script written by humans because the source is questionable. Just my opinion.

GOD didnt make that stipulation....the guys who edited the Bible did...you also have to attend church and "give thanks in His house" to be admitted to Heaven according to "them"....the words have been twisted to serve the church leaders.


We've talked before about "conscience" and "being your own judge" this is where it comes into play.....regarding the heaven and hell debate.

I'll try to give an example....

"Hell" for a racist person would be for instance...having to come back in the next life as that which he previously vilified....not a great example....but you get the drift....I dont believe there even IS an actual "Hell".

As I said....I have taken bits and pieces of what I have read THAT RING TRUE with me and developed my own theories over the years...I just find it hard to put into words.

 

[mazHur]

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."(Bible)

A party of tourists was on its way to Palestine and their guide was describing some of the customs of the East.

He was explaining how in England, for example, a shepherd follows the sheep, but in the East the shepherd leads the way and the sheep follow him for they know his voice.

When the tourist group reached Palestine one of the first sights they saw was a flock of sheep not being led by the shepherd but being driven along by the man. The guide, being perplexed, stopped to talk to the shepherd.

"How is it that you are driving these sheep?" he asked. "I have always been told that the Eastern shepherd leads his sheep."

"You are quite right, sir," replied the man. "The shepherd does lead his sheep. But you see I'm not the shepherd. I'm the butcher."''

 

[Minor Axis]

GOD didnt make that stipulation....the guys who edited the Bible did...you also have to attend church and "give thanks in His house" to be admitted to Heaven according to "them"....the words have been twisted to serve the church leaders.


We've talked before about "conscience" and "being your own judge" this is where it comes into play.....regarding the heaven and hell debate.

I'll try to give an example....

"Hell" for a racist person would be for instance...having to come back in the next life as that which he previously vilified....not a great example....but you get the drift....I dont believe there even IS an actual "Hell".

As I said....I have taken bits and pieces of what I have read THAT RING TRUE with me and developed my own theories over the years...I just find it hard to put into words.

I don't either. There is a harshness in religion and the all-eternity concept of punishment is simplistic imo. It may take more than one life time to get it right and it serves no good purpose for God (if there is an intelligent force in the position to judge) to give up on you. I think hell is an invention thought up by the church to keep the sheep in line. Regarding judgment it could be as simple as self evaluation after the fact.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."(Bible)

A party of tourists was on its way to Palestine and their guide was describing some of the customs of the East.

He was explaining how in England, for example, a shepherd follows the sheep, but in the East the shepherd leads the way and the sheep follow him for they know his voice.

When the tourist group reached Palestine one of the first sights they saw was a flock of sheep not being led by the shepherd but being driven along by the man. The guide, being perplexed, stopped to talk to the shepherd.

"How is it that you are driving these sheep?" he asked. "I have always been told that the Eastern shepherd leads his sheep."

"You are quite right, sir," replied the man. "The shepherd does lead his sheep. But you see I'm not the shepherd. I'm the butcher."''

Interesting analogy about religion! The problem is who do you trust to be led by.

 

[cam elle toe]

I don't either. There is a harshness in religion and the all-eternity concept of punishment is simplistic imo. It may take more than one life time to get it right and it serves no good purpose for God (if there is an intelligent force in the position to judge) to give up on you. I think hell is an invention thought up by the church to keep the sheep in line. Regarding judgment it could be as simple as self evaluation after the fact.



Interesting analogy about religion! The problem is who do you trust to be led by.

Bingo! A loving parent doesnt nurture you, then give you only one chance to get things right or you're "damned for all eternity"

A loving parent helps you to see where you have made your mistakes, takes you under their wing, and helps you to TRY AGAIN and learn from your mistakes.

He also has to let us make these mistakes sometimes...whether for our own or someone elses Karma and life lessons.
THATS why He doesnt/cant interfere with wars, etc....they are of OUR doing...not His...

He must be constantly "facepalming" poor old God.

 

[mazHur]

Bingo! A loving parent doesnt nurture you, then give you only one chance to get things right or you're "damned for all eternity"

A loving parent helps you to see where you have made your mistakes, takes you under their wing, and helps you to TRY AGAIN and learn from your mistakes.

He also has to let us make these mistakes sometimes...whether for our own or someone elses Karma and life lessons.
THATS why He doesnt/cant interfere with wars, etc....they are of OUR doing...not His...

He must be constantly "facepalming" poor old God.

Isn't your approach to the subject Deist?

 

[mazHur]

I don't either. There is a harshness in religion and the all-eternity concept of punishment is simplistic imo. It may take more than one life time to get it right and it serves no good purpose for God (if there is an intelligent force in the position to judge) to give up on you. I think hell is an invention thought up by the church to keep the sheep in line. Regarding judgment it could be as simple as self evaluation after the fact.



Interesting analogy about religion! The problem is who do you trust to be led by.

difficult to say whom you can trust but experience with someone might lead you to some assessment, not sure , just think so.

Trust between parents, spouses, friends, etc is based on mutual trust...yet there is occassionally bang bang among them and that is because the mutual trust had weakened.
In case of God there is trust ....without expectation for REWARD...when someone expects reward from God
and is displeased the whole faith goes down the drain!

 

[cam elle toe]

Isn't your approach to the subject Deist?

No! I don't believe he's abandoned us.....He is always there to guide us, but we are given free will to do with this life what we can.

 

[mazHur]

5]Bingo! A loving parent doesnt nurture you, then give you only one chance to get things right or you're "damned for all eternity"

A loving parent helps you to see where you have made your mistakes, takes you under their wing, and helps you to TRY AGAIN and learn from your mistake

I think God doesn't want to believe in 'chances'--it's we who take chances and liberties with His
kindness and when things go wrong begin to blame God.

God is more than parents; there are parents who abort before the new born sees the light of the day; then there are parents who dump their kids in the garbage bin or leave it for the state to care for; then there are parents who hate their kids;
conversely there are kids who abandon their parent when they grow old; there are kids who rebuke their parents; there are kids who have killed their parents; and so on.

God is above all these relations...and if human mind judges the grandeur of God with his limited insight he will always remain confused about God and His blessings. Sometimes there are blessings in disguise but humans seldom attribute it to God or his Favor!

Just a few thoughts..............

 

[mazHur]

No! I don't believe he's abandoned us.....He is always there to guide us, but we are given free will to do with this life what we can.

hey, now you begin to talk like a Muslim!!

 

[cam elle toe]

hey, now you begin to talk like a Muslim!!

I think theres a thread af truth in all religions.

 

[mazHur]

I think theres a thread af truth in all religions.

I agree

 

[Minor Axis]

He also has to let us make these mistakes sometimes...whether for our own or someone elses Karma and life lessons.
THATS why He doesnt/cant interfere with wars, etc....they are of OUR doing...not His...

He must be constantly "facepalming" poor old God.

We are here on this earth to experience the good and the bad. It's arguable that it is humans who make the experience what it is. If God was to constantly shield us, all we'd learn is we have a sugar daddy taking care of us.