memento_mori
Active Member
Is depression a serious medical condition or is it just human emotion? Are anti-depressants ethical? Are we saving the sick from themselves or are we getting closer to Aldous Huxley's Brave New World?
Depression
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TheOriginalJames
Well-Known Member
depression is normally caused by a chemical imbalance, feelings of loneliness and sadness. It's something a doctor can diagnose and prescribe medication for. I don't think it's unethical to help someone to feel better about themselves and lead happy lives.
memento_mori
Active Member
Happiness can be caused by dopamine, Rage can be caused by too much adrenaline, and a sense of accomplishment can be caused by endorphins. Our thoughts, actions, and bodily chemicals are part of who we are- chemical imbalances and all.
By regulating what chemicals we produce and what emotions we let ourselves feel, we're cutting off a part of ourselves we feel we don't need. And we'll keep nitpicking until we've molded each other into perfect cookie-cutter pieces. "This one's too hyper. This one is too sad." What's next? This one is too ambitious? This one is too angry? This one is too sexual? This one is too lazy?
And then everyone will be the perfect shape, right? They'd just be the same shape.
What if our culture needs ideological/emotional diversity for stability? Like in the wild, they have biological diversity. Survival of the Fittest tells us the more biological diversity a species has the better chance a few of its members will survive a major catastrophe. What happens to our society when something horrible happens to all those star shaped pieces, and there's no clumped up pieces to withstand it?
By regulating what chemicals we produce and what emotions we let ourselves feel, we're cutting off a part of ourselves we feel we don't need. And we'll keep nitpicking until we've molded each other into perfect cookie-cutter pieces. "This one's too hyper. This one is too sad." What's next? This one is too ambitious? This one is too angry? This one is too sexual? This one is too lazy?
And then everyone will be the perfect shape, right? They'd just be the same shape.
What if our culture needs ideological/emotional diversity for stability? Like in the wild, they have biological diversity. Survival of the Fittest tells us the more biological diversity a species has the better chance a few of its members will survive a major catastrophe. What happens to our society when something horrible happens to all those star shaped pieces, and there's no clumped up pieces to withstand it?
TheOriginalJames
Well-Known Member
My point is depression is caused by a chemical inbalance because sometimes the body can't control, regulate, or manufacture enough of that chemical to keep it in balance. Anti-depressants help to add that chemical & to stimulate that natural manufacturing process.
Do you think people with diabetes that take insulin shots is immoral as well? Or people who take aspirins to thin their blood because they get constant pounding migraines?
Do you think people with diabetes that take insulin shots is immoral as well? Or people who take aspirins to thin their blood because they get constant pounding migraines?
memento_mori
Active Member
Diabetes is diabetes, I'm talking mental disorders that seem to be targeting emotions.
So you're snuggling up to that special someone for the first time, your body is drenched in dopamine. You really love them. Your body gets off the dopamine fix, and you start producing oxytocins now that you're really close, married, together forever.
What if society decided that those kinds of chemicals were a chemical imbalance? Exclusive comitted relationships are irrational behavior, on par with sitting around the house feeling sorry for yourself. Spending time with your loved ones becomes not living up to your responsibilities to the economy.
Sure, it's a 'what if' statement, but how do we dictate what amounts of what chemicals are good for who and why? Do we really know it will be better for them? And even if it is better for them, is it better for society?
So you're snuggling up to that special someone for the first time, your body is drenched in dopamine. You really love them. Your body gets off the dopamine fix, and you start producing oxytocins now that you're really close, married, together forever.
What if society decided that those kinds of chemicals were a chemical imbalance? Exclusive comitted relationships are irrational behavior, on par with sitting around the house feeling sorry for yourself. Spending time with your loved ones becomes not living up to your responsibilities to the economy.
Sure, it's a 'what if' statement, but how do we dictate what amounts of what chemicals are good for who and why? Do we really know it will be better for them? And even if it is better for them, is it better for society?
TheOriginalJames
Well-Known Member
It's up to the affected person to decide what chemicals he needs help in producing on whether or not he wants to be a productive citizen to the economic, or personal world.
I think your what if question is a little bit far fetched - society isn't telling someone that he shouldn't feel depressed all the time - it's the person who needs to realize that unhappiniess is not the way he should want to go through life.
I'm failing to see the inethical treatment of helping oneself to leading a happy normal life of productivity and happiness.
I think your what if question is a little bit far fetched - society isn't telling someone that he shouldn't feel depressed all the time - it's the person who needs to realize that unhappiniess is not the way he should want to go through life.
I'm failing to see the inethical treatment of helping oneself to leading a happy normal life of productivity and happiness.
N
NightWarrior
Guest
The problem I see with using drugs all the time in our society is that they are being used as a crutch. At no other time in the history of man do we have more depressed, ADD, overweight, and just plain crazy people. Anyone can get any drug prescribed to them if they no what symptoms to complain about or what "keywords" to use. In fact there is a movie coming out about this that looks like a comedy, but in all reality thats not funny. What makes a person depressed? Its usually an event or events that led to the depression. They didn't wake up one day and their body decided to make them depressed. I'm not saying that drugs should not be used, because I do believe they enable people to lead somewhat pain-free and emotional-better lives. What I am saying is that we need to be careful in the amounts that we prescribe.
TheOriginalJames
Well-Known Member
That's because the medical field has only discovered the chemical imbalance that causes depression in the last <100 years. Before then people just chaulked it up to the bad events that took place, but it isn't always the case. Nothing bad has happened in my life, and I'm usually a well adjusted individual, but I sometimes get so depressed that I don't want to do anything. Whether or not that's a medical imbalance or not, I have no idea. Some people are just clinically depressed for what seems like no apparent reason.
memento_mori
Active Member
are you talking about Wristcutters: A Love Story?
Wristcutters: A Love Story
that looks like a good movie to me.
Peter Parka
Well-Known Member
Yes it is a medical condition, it pisses me off when people tell you to just snap out of it, if you had broken a leg no one would tell you to just snap out of it! Just because you can't see it dosen't mean its real! You cant see the air but you can see the effects of it, well snap!
memento_mori
Active Member
Peter Parka
Well-Known Member
I know you're just trying to be funny mate, but please dont about this subject. There's too much predjudice as it is about mental illness! No offense.
memento_mori
Active Member
The only way to take care of a prejudice is to get a judge and jury; get some thoughts and opinions on the matter to keep an open mind.
isnt that what these forums are about? and killing time, of course.
isnt that what these forums are about? and killing time, of course.
Peter Parka
Well-Known Member
Wrong! If everyone juged me because I tried to top myself a few times I would only get anywhere on pity.
memento_mori
Active Member
oh, man. i'm really struggling not to bring this to suicide. too sensitive. id be overstepping my bounds.
Peter Parka
Well-Known Member
Nah, sorry mate, I was probably getting too oversensitive because of what I've been through. This is a good debate and I was just telling you of my personal experiences, no offense taken and hopefully no offense given out.
memento_mori
Active Member
I know clinical depression is real, and I know I suffer from it.
There's more to it than just being stuck in a rut. I've been trying so many different things like exercise, writing, working harder, not working so hard, getting out more with friends and family, etc. But there's always those lingering thoughts through out the day, before I go to sleep, and definitely the worst when I first wake up. And eventually I have those days where I just can't even bother to go to classes, do my work, or really eat anything decent.
My father's pretty bad, too. Letting the junk fill up the house around him, letting my mother leave because he's "too messy and sarcastic", laying on the couch watching television from the time he gets home to the time he has to go out again. I can only imagine what goes through his head.
But I can't help but wonder, where's the line between the illness and just a lack of motivation? People say it's chemicals. All emotions have some sort of chemical associated with them, our bodies are chock full of them. To say it's just chemicals is to say it's just emotions, and I seriously wonder sometimes what that means for the rest of the emotional spectrum when we can just 'fix' one of them.
I think TOJ said it best with
"It's up to the affected person to decide what chemicals he needs help in producing on whether or not he wants to be a productive citizen to the economic, or personal world."
Free choice is a good place to leave it. With out getting on suicide. Because bringing free choice into people who want to kill themselves would get ugly.
There's more to it than just being stuck in a rut. I've been trying so many different things like exercise, writing, working harder, not working so hard, getting out more with friends and family, etc. But there's always those lingering thoughts through out the day, before I go to sleep, and definitely the worst when I first wake up. And eventually I have those days where I just can't even bother to go to classes, do my work, or really eat anything decent.
My father's pretty bad, too. Letting the junk fill up the house around him, letting my mother leave because he's "too messy and sarcastic", laying on the couch watching television from the time he gets home to the time he has to go out again. I can only imagine what goes through his head.
But I can't help but wonder, where's the line between the illness and just a lack of motivation? People say it's chemicals. All emotions have some sort of chemical associated with them, our bodies are chock full of them. To say it's just chemicals is to say it's just emotions, and I seriously wonder sometimes what that means for the rest of the emotional spectrum when we can just 'fix' one of them.
I think TOJ said it best with
"It's up to the affected person to decide what chemicals he needs help in producing on whether or not he wants to be a productive citizen to the economic, or personal world."
Free choice is a good place to leave it. With out getting on suicide. Because bringing free choice into people who want to kill themselves would get ugly.
I went through a bout of depression once and I talked in lengths to my doctor about it. One thing that he said to me that I wasn't aware of is the cause of depression.
His exact words.... "If you can figure out what causes depression, you would be a billionaire" He told me that science doesn't have a clue why some people get or have a chemical imbalance. He said that it doesn't have to be connected to any event or cause.
His exact words.... "If you can figure out what causes depression, you would be a billionaire" He told me that science doesn't have a clue why some people get or have a chemical imbalance. He said that it doesn't have to be connected to any event or cause.
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