Church plans Quran-burning event

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Minor Axis

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True,,, Muslims are averse to anyone bad-mouthing the Quran or their Prophet....because according to their belief the word of Quran or the Prophet is the Word of God.. hence their possessiveness to Quran is natural.
They would also not bad mouth Jesus, Moses or Noah etc ....that is against the teachings of their Faith.

I don't think it is fair to disrespect anyone's beliefs or to burn their religious scriptures...that sounds like provoking hatred universally because Muslims are found in all nationalities..


Can't say Rushdie did a good job by slinging filth at Muslims?

I've not read his works, but my impression is he in some manner belittled the Muslim faith for real or in the mind of Ayatollah Khomeini who ordered a fatwa for Muslims to kill him on sight in 1989. This is 10th century thinking at it's worst and is the exact opposite of tolerance. Most major religions can be held accountable for slaughter in the name of God, but Christians for the most part have advanced beyond this inferior thinking. If there is a God, he is immune from such petty goings-on and should be more than capable to handle it on his own. He/she does not need man to protect his good name. Main steam Middle East Muslims have yet to see the light imo.

I am no expert on the Quran, but if it says something in there about killing infidels, it is due for an update. To be clear, I don't condone the notion of burning the Quran.
 
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CordialDreams

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If the bible was burnt, people wouldnt give a shit, people take the piss out of jesus and christianity all the time and its brushed off, the second you call a teddy bear mohammed, the knives are out.
fuck em, burn the books and take a stand

I highly doubt people wouldn't give a shit. Esepcially if it was done by Muslims. A lot of people in the west hate Muslims, you can't deny that. The people who hate are the ones who want 'national draw Mohammed day' and 'burn the Qur'an day'. It's not for fun and games. Muslims get treated badly enough as it is by the western world. How can we have religious tolerance when things like this continue to be done?

Take a stand against what? Islam? What for? A lot of people would be taking a 'stand' for all the wrong uneducated reasons.
 

mazHur

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I've not read his works, but my impression is he in some manner belittled the Muslim faith for real or in the mind of Ayatollah Khomeini who ordered a fatwa for Muslims to kill him on sight in 1989. This is 10th century thinking at it's worst and is the exact opposite of tolerance. Most major religions can be held accountable for slaughter in the name of God, but Christians for the most part have advanced beyond this inferior thinking. If there is a God, he is immune from such petty goings-on and should be more than capable to handle it on his own. He/she does not need man to protect his good name. Main steam Middle East Muslims have yet to see the light imo.

I am no expert on the Quran, but if it says something in there about killing infidels, it is due for an update. To be clear, I don't condone the notion of burning the Quran.


To cut a long story short, in the words of a wise admin quoted on this thread ante, you may have the right to hit a hornet's nest but not if such hitting poses risk to others!!

Insulting anyone, any religion, any doctrine, any belief just because if differs from you is bad ...and goes against the 'right of freedom'.....one doesn't have the freedom to insult others...

Rushdie would still be killed if he happens to get out of British custody!
The Quran does say to 'kill infidels' but within its contextual meaning it means 'kill them during the war''!!
I think other religions, including Christianity also say the same!
 

mazHur

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I highly doubt people wouldn't give a shit. Esepcially if it was done by Muslims. A lot of people in the west hate Muslims, you can't deny that. The people who hate are the ones who want 'national draw Mohammed day' and 'burn the Qur'an day'. It's not for fun and games. Muslims get treated badly enough as it is by the western world. How can we have religious tolerance when things like this continue to be done?

Take a stand against what? Islam? What for? A lot of people would be taking a 'stand' for all the wrong uneducated reasons.


Muslim culture is entirely different than Western culture...Muslims feel hard to mix up with Western culture because of several religious reasons such as Muslims would not eat pork, they cannot date, they cannot indulge in pre marital sex, etc etc

Rest of the morals and ethics are almost the same as Bible or Torah...because Quran is said to be a concise and latest edition of all scriptures??
 

itsmeJonB

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My roommate, a veteran who was medically discharged after serving in Iraq, handed me a copy of the Quran.
Not only did he make the point to tell me that there is no such thing as a new testament or old testament in the book, but the book is honored by practicing Muslims as non-metaphorical and the one and only word.

The book was written in hate, it not only condones murder but demands it from anyone following their book to commit murder upon anyone who bad mouths their religion. They do not believe in freedom of speech, their only answer for anything is violence.
 

Minor Axis

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My roommate, a veteran who was medically discharged after serving in Iraq, handed me a copy of the Quran.
Not only did he make the point to tell me that there is no such thing as a new testament or old testament in the book, but the book is honored by practicing Muslims as non-metaphorical and the one and only word.

The book was written in hate, it not only condones murder but demands it from anyone following their book to commit murder upon anyone who bad mouths their religion. They do not believe in freedom of speech, their only answer for anything is violence.

10th Century thinking... Are you prepared to accuse all Muslims of thinking this way?
 

mazHur

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And you approve?


I am niobiody to approve or dusapprove...

Rushdie violated the laws which his religion deems as blaspehmous and liable to death penaltty if he doesn't repent...same as if someone doesn't comply with the rules of this forum he would be kicked out...or a criminal hanged for his crime...


it would have been manly of Rushdie not to have taken oath as a Muslim and then said what he wanted to against them...
 

Alien Allen

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10th Century thinking... Are you prepared to accuse all Muslims of thinking this way?
are you serious? see below

I am niobiody to approve or dusapprove...

Rushdie violated the laws which his religion deems as blaspehmous and liable to death penaltty if he doesn't repent...same as if someone doesn't comply with the rules of this forum he would be kicked out...or a criminal hanged for his crime...


it would have been manly of Rushdie not to have taken oath as a Muslim and then said what he wanted to against them...
 

Alien Allen

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From todays Detroit News

I think this guy has nailed it
Nolan Finley

Islam must turn other cheek

NolanFinley.jpg
How absurd is it that the deranged pastor of a tiny Florida church can make the entire world hold its breath just by threatening to burn a book?
The Rev. Terry Jones of the Dove Outreach Center in Gainesville is a hate-filled nut, for sure. But nothing he's done or vowed to do in offering what can only be viewed rationally as a minor insult to Islam merits the paranoia in the West about a worldwide wave of bloodshed at the hands of offended radicals.
Jones was implored not to carry out his promise to burn a copy of the Quran by, among others, the United Nations, the pope, Gen.general David Petraeus and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates.
His back-and-forth deliberating was covered as if it was another Bay of Pigs stand-off and this scruffy preacher had his finger on the button.
Advertisement

Come on. Jones should have been entirely ignored. He's not an official of our government, nor is he a national leader in any fashion. He's an obscure redneck, or at least he was until the cameras showed up at his 50-member church.
That Jones captured so much attention is an indication of what the West is up against in its effort to coexist with Islam.
Yeah, I know -- all Muslims aren't mayhem makers. But the lunatic fringe is apparently wide enough to trigger an extreme overreaction from our nation's top offices to a silly little publicity stunt.
If Muslim sensibilities are so tender they can't ignore the bizarre rants of an insignificant American fanatic then this is a culture with a serious anger management issue, and one the West can't help with.
There's no way to head-off every potential slight to Islam. Last time it was Danish cartoons, this time it's a Pentecostal pew jumper who lays down his snakes to strike a match.
Tomorrow, an atheist in Italy may name his dog Mohammad, or a biker in Australia will have a likeness of the prophet tattooed on his backside.
The only answer is for Islam to grow up. Religion invites antagonism; get used to it.
Using the destruction of a book as an excuse to rampage is unacceptable and immature. A Quran, like a Bible, is a physical thing. What makes both books holy are the ideas and inspiration they contain, not the pages and ink. The religion won't be broken by taunts, or by bonfires.
Burning a Quran in the Florida swamps doesn't weaken the foundation of Islam any more than burning an American flag in Pakistan dents our nation's underpinnings, or coating an icon of the Virgin Mary with elephant poop, like that "artist" once did in Cincinnati, undermines Christianity.
Grown-ups shrug off such affronts for the ignorance they are, and move on. They don't go nuts, as the radicals did after the cartoon episode.
We've had the mantra "Islam is a religion of peace" drilled into us for the past nine years. But Muslims still have some work to do to make that case. Peaceful religions aren't so easily provoked to violence. Religions of peace turn the other cheek.
 

mazHur

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My roommate, a veteran who was medically discharged after serving in Iraq, handed me a copy of the Quran.
Not only did he make the point to tell me that there is no such thing as a new testament or old testament in the book, but the book is honored by practicing Muslims as non-metaphorical and the one and only word.

The book was written in hate, it not only condones murder but demands it from anyone following their book to commit murder upon anyone who bad mouths their religion. They do not believe in freedom of speech, their only answer for anything is violence.


incorrect and exaggerated....


Quran says 'Murder of an innocent person is like the murder of entire humanity''.....Only this line refutes the observations erroneous as they are of your 'veteran'

Muslims do not admit of Blasphemy.....if this amounts to snag on \freedom of speech/ then surely they do it like most staunch or orthodox Christians or Jews...


Attributing violence to Muslims is fallacious.....people of all religions go violent at one time or the other depending on the politics and vested interest of their times....
Humans are humans regardless of their religions...the controversy and fight is over interests,
 
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mazHur

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From todays Detroit News

I think this guy has nailed it


If the world went his way a day will soon come when children will start abusing their parents and laying their incestual relations without any qualms of conscience..

Freedom of Speech does not mean abusing others ....by self-seeking self-loathing pleasure hunters!!

sorry but I do not agree with you a bit!!
 

CordialDreams

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From todays Detroit News

I think this guy has nailed it


I do not agree with this at all.

It isn't just burning paper and ink. If it is just paper and ink to these people that want to burn the books, then why bother even burning them in the first place? They had people with signs saying that Islam is the religion of the devil. That it's evil and all the usual crap people think about Islam.

The cartoons were cartoons of Mohammed dressed as a terrorist. It's completely unacceptable.

I can't even begin to understand how people don't think that they are offending people when they do such things.
 

Minor Axis

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I am niobiody to approve or dusapprove...

Rushdie violated the laws which his religion deems as blaspehmous and liable to death penaltty if he doesn't repent...same as if someone doesn't comply with the rules of this forum he would be kicked out...or a criminal hanged for his crime...


it would have been manly of Rushdie not to have taken oath as a Muslim and then said what he wanted to against them...

I'm very sorry to hear this from you. Now I must ask is it the Muslim religion that is the problem, or is it the leaders (as always) who are protecting the faith are the problem? God does not dictate death, humans do. If the faith is righteous, it needs no protecting, God does not need protecting. Any religion that dictates death for blasphemy has HUGE control issues and is corrupt.

So if Rushdie had not been a Muslim, no problem?- just curious.
 

Minor Axis

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From todays Detroit News

I think this guy has nailed it

I do too. It's time for Islam to grow up.


I do not agree with this at all.

It isn't just burning paper and ink. If it is just paper and ink to these people that want to burn the books, then why bother even burning them in the first place? They had people with signs saying that Islam is the religion of the devil. That it's evil and all the usual crap people think about Islam.

The cartoons were cartoons of Mohammed dressed as a terrorist. It's completely unacceptable.

I can't even begin to understand how people don't think that they are offending people when they do such things.

And if it is unacceptable, what is a reasonable response?

I don't believe that all Muslims should be condemned (just the my-way-or-the-highway Muslims) and I don't believe the idiot should burn the Quran. But I'm happy he has the right to do so if he wants. The issues appears to be about offending and then murdering in return. It is completely wrong and scary for a main stream religion to hold this view in the 21st century.

Where you live would the laws find it acceptable if someone called you a shit head and you retaliated by killing them? I'm all most certain, civil laws around the world would not not accept this reaction as reasonable. But this is the standard that some Middle Eastern Islamic groups are holding up. If there is a reason why Islam can not coexist with contrasting views this would be it.

The next question is how many in main stream Islam feel this way? There is a bunch who strictly believe that the world should be ruled by Islamic law. They are evil imo and the human race has serious religious based conflict ahead of it.
 
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mazHur

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I'm very sorry to hear this from you. Now I must ask is it the Muslim religion that is the problem, or is it the leaders (as always) who are protecting the faith are the problem? God does not dictate death, humans do. If the faith is righteous, it needs no protecting, God does not need protecting. Any religion that dictates death for blasphemy has HUGE control issues and is corrupt.

So if Rushdie had not been a Muslim, no problem?- just curious.


There are three types of followers in any religion

1. The orthodox.....who want strict application of religious laws
2. the liberals-would take their religion easy
3 the hypocrites --who confess a faith yet condemn it without denouncing it.

The first type are dangerous.

Blasphemy is intolerable in Islam....it like you can't have it and eat it! When somebody confesses Islam he becomes duty-bound to stay within its commands.. self-loathing his own confession of a religion is considered sin among Muslims and other Muslims would not take it easy. As for a non-Muslim insulting Islamic laws such as the Quran are simply mischievous and provocative. It's just lke insulting their parents or elders, so do they believe. Quran now my be next time some idiot tries to burn Bhagvat Geeta or Guru Garanth ....their followers are equally touchy about their religion....and provoking them unnecessarily would only mean hitting a hornet's nest.

As an example, you cannot interpret your own right to freedom by by inducting your rules on this forum...the mods would kick you out as this is the optimum punishment they can award to miscreant. Q.E. D.
 

mazHur

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I do too. It's time for Islam to grow up.




And if it is unacceptable, what is a reasonable response?

I don't believe that all Muslims should be condemned (just the my-way-or-the-highway Muslims) and I don't believe the idiot should burn the Quran. But I'm happy he has the right to do so if he wants. The issues appears to be about offending and then murdering in return. It is completely wrong and scary for a main stream religion to hold this view in the 21st century.

Where you live would the laws find it acceptable if someone called you a shit head and you retaliated by killing them? I'm all most certain, civil laws around the world would not not accept this reaction as reasonable. But this is the standard that some Middle Eastern Islamic groups are holding up. If there is a reason why Islam can not coexist with contrasting views this would be it.

The next question is how many in main stream Islam feel this way? There is a bunch who strictly believe that the world should be ruled by Islamic law. They are evil imo and the human race has serious religious based conflict ahead of it.


If the burning of Quran had come from an ordinary person the case might have been different but since it has come from the Church it is tantamount to instigating and igniting hate between the two greatest religions of the world!!

Quran is memorized word by word by hundreds and thousands of Muslims around the world, hence mere burning some of its copies will be of no effect other than disturbing the World Peace and harmony.

True, Muslims are very touchy about their Holy Book and Prophet Muhammad whom they take as superior and love-worthy more than their own fathers and mothers..So whoever insults Muhammad or the Quran is bound to suffer the brunt of his action at any time....
How does one feel if his father or mother is insulted publicly?? If you won't kill him atleast you will if you have the balls kick the shit out of the assailant!

'Freedom' is not like whatever you can say or do to others....freedom is for your own person and not for injuring the feelings of others through any manner. America is not a religious country then why all this hue and cry on exercise of religious freedom by Muslims withing the constitutional and other laws of the country??
I must say that amounts to racism, narrow mindedness and bigotry...
that pastor was trying to give a bad name to America and Americans..as a punishment for his lunacy he ought to be sent to Afghanistan to fight the terrorists alongwith his comrades!
 

porterjack

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If the burning of Quran had come from an ordinary person the case might have been different but since it has come from the Church it is tantamount to instigating and igniting hate between the two greatest religions of the world!!
it does come from an ordinary person, he does not speak for anyone but himself and some 30 deluded congregation members, anyone who takes him seriously or feels threatened by his actions needs to take stock of reality - he does not represent the US nor does he represent Christianity, no more than flag burning zealots in Afghanistan or Pakistan represent Islam
 

mazHur

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it does come from an ordinary person, he does not speak for anyone but himself and some 30 deluded congregation members, anyone who takes him seriously or feels threatened by his actions needs to take stock of reality - he does not represent the US nor does he represent Christianity, no more than flag burning zealots in Afghanistan or Pakistan represent Islam


I know he is an ordinary person but because he belongs to a church he is not. He only tried to defame America and that is ignoble of him.

Flag burning is bad too but that is not restricted to Pakistan or Afghanistan. What about Palestinians and Israelites?? Flags represent only ONE country, Bible or Quran represent a boundless territory....and people all over the world!!

In any case burning a book, any book, is not the right way to protest in a civilized country like America where only legal recourse ought to be sought to stop the building of the Mosque, if that conflicts with the laws of the land...
 

Minor Axis

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As an example, you cannot interpret your own right to freedom by by inducting your rules on this forum...the mods would kick you out as this is the optimum punishment they can award to miscreant. Q.E. D.

Yes the outcome would be ejection from forum access, not a fatwa to have you murdered by any able bodied forum participant. :)
 
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