Bullycide in America

[edgray]

And where did I say that?

here:

Ed it's not going to change.

and here:

It's been going on for many many years and unless people change the bullying won't. I don't see people changing any time soon.

oh and here too:

Even the leaders in almost every country are bullying each other. We learn by example and there's no one teaching...

and once more, for the kids at the back:

And that right there is the problem. Not many people in this world change

 

[darkangel]

I've come back to this post because what you've said is actually quite interesting. You're immediately associating bullying with criminal behaviour.

I didn't associate bullying with criminal behavior. I used it as a comparison. I didn't say that criminals were bullies. I said that like criminals bullies don't change. Read man read.

You'd be surprised at how many bullies end up as successful business people - it's actually a very common trait in boardrooms all around the world.

So you agree that bullies hold high positions in the world.

Maybe I'm fortunate that my stature makes people think twice before having a go, but I see this problem as something that can be overcome by all everyone.

What do you mean by stature? By the way you look? Are you a bully because you're talking like one.

When I said about talking to the person with the superiority complex, I'm not saying just go up to a random thug in the street - that'd be insane. What I'm talking about is people you know. Everyone knows some person who bullies others, be it in a physical manner or in an emotional one. It takes many forms. And it's easy to spot: if you know anyone that pushes and air of superiority over others, or over a group (racism, for example) it's not difficult to use your position as a friend to try and change them.

Even a best friend will turn on you if he is a bully. If you talk to friends and tell them that they are bullies and to please stop the behavior you're going to be in for a hell of an argument or even a physical altercation.

I've had friends who bullied other friends and I can happily say I've changed a few situations in that regard. And racism too - it's not hard to point out the errors in someone's behaviour.

And you mean to say it was that simple? I'm sorry but I think you're full of it.

 

[darkangel]

And your last post is pure rubbish!

 

[edgray]

I didn't associate bullying with criminal behavior. I used it as a comparison. I didn't say that criminals were bullies. I said that like criminals bullies don't change. Read man read.

I read, woman.

Criminals change in the same way everyone has the ability to change. These are learned behaviours, they are not genetic. And as learned behaviours, they can change.

So you agree that bullies hold high positions in the world.

I agree there are bullies throughout every level of society. What are you saying? That that in itself makes it acceptable?

What do you mean by stature? By the way you look? Are you a bully because you're talking like one.

That's generally what one would mean by using that word. I'm very tall. And I'm most certainly not a bully. And it what way am I possibly talking like a bully?

Even a best friend will turn on you if he is a bully. If you talk to friends and tell them that they are bullies and to please stop the behavior you're going to be in for a hell of an argument or even a physical altercation.

You'd be surprised, friends are much more likely to listen. It's always worth a try in any case, as I said, you never know who you'll be helping further down the line. To not do anything is almost as bad as being the bully yourself.

And you mean to say it was that simple? I'm sorry but I think you're full of it.

No it's not simple. I can't believe you're arguing against the idea of possibly helping someone. I think you're full of something too, and it's certainly not the milk of human kindness.

And your last post is pure rubbish!

no, it was spot on. If you read what you'd said, you're basically sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and saying "na na na na I can't see or hear you". That is burying your head in the sand, quite clearly.

 

[darkangel]

Ed you just don't get it. The only way to handle a bully is to make new laws against bullying with harsh repercussions. And throw them in jail or juvenile detention depending on what age they are. Counsel them with professionals not people like you. Unless that is you have a degree in psychology? Do you work in that field? From what I have read you don't hold a job or do you?

 

[edgray]

Ed you just don't get it. The only way to handle a bully is to make new laws against bullying with harsh repercussions. And throw them in jail or juvenile detention depending on what age they are. Counsel them with professionals not people like you. Unless that is you have a degree in psychology? Do you work in that field? From what I have read you don't hold a job or do you?

"Ed you just don't get it." - those kind of statements annoy the bejesus out of me. You haven't offered any example of you having the slightest bit of understanding of a) human nature b) developmental psychology and c) bullying itself. What is it exactly that I just don't get? That you're not prepared to simply tell people how you feel about bullying? That you're not prepared to at least do something about it? That you like to bury your head in the sand? That you don't think people can change? Don't worry, I get all that, it's coming through loud and clear.

Yay! Just we need, more laws! Awesome! What great solution! Let's lock even more people up! My God, yes, let's put a bully in with some serious criminals, see how that helps him change. Great idea...

Ok, sarcasm aside:

Firstly, bullying is more often than not hard to prove. This is part of the problem. A regular punch up is not bullying. Bullying is persistent emotional and/or physical torment. Very difficult to prosecute that kind of thing. Victims find it hard to speak out. And even harder when you get compassionate people like Guyzerr claiming people just need to learn to stick up for themselves, and you who think that nothing can be done about it. Which is why it needs society, people like you and me, to make it perfectly clear we will not tolerate such behaviour and let people know that. Bullying often takes place in group circumstances, all it takes is for one member of the group to point out how wrong it is and you'd be amazed at how that one gesture can change things - and that I have seen with my very own eyes.

I studied psychology at adult college in my twenties. Not quite to degree level. But I've got a pretty good understanding of certain types of psychology. Not enough to go counsel people, but then if you knew anything about psychology you'd know most psychologists are quite against the idea of counseling. It comes best from friends, relatives, people you have a relationship with, not some plonker who did a psyche module at uni and can't find a job doing anything else.

And yes, currently I am unemployed.

 

[darkangel]

Ed now this is the way that bullying should be handled. Like I said we need stricter laws and more repercussions for these bullies actions. The video speaks for itself...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NScGl6qWfM&feature=fvst

 

[edgray]

what, wait until someones dead? great.

Let me put this very simply for you:

Bullying is a learned behaviour. Punishing bullies is important, but it's not going to stop it, in the same way the penal system doesn't stop crime. Attitudes need to be changed. And those changes are pretty simple.

 

[darkangel]

Did you even watch the video? It said that if in schools if faculty encounters bullying then they are supposed to report it to the police now. Nip it in the bud. I still say that counseling at an early age is the key to stopping bullying. And if outpatient counseling doesn't work then some form of inpatient counseling should be forced and mandated may it be in a psych ward or a jail...

 

[edgray]

Did you even watch the video? It said that if in schools if faculty encounters bullying then they are supposed to report it to the police now. Nip it in the bud. I still say that counseling at an early age is the key to stopping bullying. And if outpatient counseling doesn't work then some form of inpatient counseling should be forced and mandated may it be in a psych ward or a jail...

yes I watched it, very sad state of affairs indeed. Poor girl.

I see it as a good thing to punish those committing bullying like that. But, like child abuse, so much of it will go unreported, and bullied kids will slip through the cracks. And it won't stop the problem, no matter how draconian the laws are. It's also much easier to prosecute bullies when the victim has committed suicide, but most types of bullying would be really tough to prove in a court of law.

You're right in starting at an early age: birth if possible. As I said, these behaviours are learned, and it's easier undone the younger a person is. But I disagree on counseling and certainly putting a bully anywhere near a psyche ward. Have you been in one? Not conducive to change at all.

There needs to be more open dialogue. If people know anyone who is inclined to bully, even in the slightest form, talk to them. Communication is key here: talk about bullying, to people, explain why people bully, what constitutes bullying and the effects it has and most importantly, why it's wrong. A lot of bullies don't even know they're doing it, or that what they're doing is bullying. Spreading the word is a good starting point.

 

[darkangel]

"Ed you just don't get it." - those kind of statements annoy the bejesus out of me.

Glad I could oblige....

 

[darkangel]

You're right in starting at an early age: birth if possible. As I said, these behaviours are learned, and it's easier undone the younger a person is. But I disagree on counseling and certainly putting a bully anywhere near a psyche ward. Have you been in one? Not conducive to change at all.

I'm glad that you finally agree with me. It's about time. And yes I have been and if it wasn't for counseling I wouldn't be here. I guess you can call me the OTz token nut case but as long as you agree with me I don't mind. Oh wait you can't call me that because it would be considered bullying...

 

[Accountable]

It takes Ed awhile, but he generally comes around.

 

[darkangel]

It takes Ed awhile, but he generally comes around.

Yes I just noticed that...

 

[edgray]

you're talking as if I was wrong or something. weird.

 

[darkangel]

you're talking as if I was wrong or something. weird.

IMHO you are wrong up until you agreed with me.

 

[Accountable]

DA, most of the time Ed & I argue for days before figuring out that we were on the same side all the time.

 

[darkangel]

DA, most of the time Ed & I argue for day before figuring out that we were on the same side all the time.

It happens....

 

[edgray]

IMHO you are wrong up until you agreed with me.

If you can point me out where I was wrong please do.

(edited to remove late-night antagonism.)

 

[darkangel]

Here is where you are wrong.

But I disagree on counseling and certainly putting a bully anywhere near a psyche ward. Have you been in one? Not conducive to change at all.

And where do you suppose bullies belong? Talking to you on the street or at your place of residence? They need monitored counseling and if it has to be in a psych ward or a juvenile detention center then so be it. What is so wrong with a psych ward? You get good counseling there, it's air conditioned, one on one and group therapy, they will learn coping skills, and be rehabilitated. Bullying is a disorder IMO which needs to be addressed when they first show signs of it. If it isn't then they grow up to be more destructive. Maybe and I say maybe even criminals.

You might know about psych wards in your country but this isn't about your country specifically. This is about bullying in the US and I know how the system works here. You don't.