Bill Gates Says He Doesn't Pay Enough Tax

Users who are viewing this thread

Stone

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,186
Reaction score
54
Tokenz
0.00z
I think you've made several sweeping generalizations in your reply. The most glaring is that it's the liberals/socialist are the blind ones. There is more than enough blindness to go around. I admit there is not black and white, conservatives are not all bad and liberals not all good. ;)

I think you've made several sweeping generalizations in your reply.
Indeed......much as you and most here do.


The most glaring is that it's the liberals/socialist are the blind ones.
" are the blind ones "
If you mean only the blind ones, your interpretations of my views are obviously skewed.
I have no issue with your assessment of the present conservative position, but you are definitely blind when I point out the the imperfections in the liberal/socialist position.

When I post the blindness of the liberal/socialist position, it's not a denial of the conservative position you refer to.....it's inclusive, not an exclusive trait. Just different points.

That how blindness works in politics.....it's very selective.

You probably don't like seeing the tag line 'tax and spend' liberals anymore than the conservative/neocon element likes the tag line 'corporate socialists'.
Both deny and are blind to their own condition.
Sweeping generalizations, yes....and fit pretty well
 
  • 183
    Replies
  • 3K
    Views
  • 0
    Participant count
    Participants list

Minor Axis

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,294
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.02z
Indeed......much as you and most here do.



" are the blind ones "
If you mean only the blind ones, your interpretations of my views are obviously skewed.
I have no issue with your assessment of the present conservative position, but you are definitely blind when I point out the the imperfections in the liberal/socialist position.

Your statement placed a condition of blindness on liberals and socialists while leaving the conservatives alone. I could infer a preference there. :)
 

Johnfromokc

Active Member
Messages
3,226
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
381345_287802904574697_204904669531188_956310_1670455004_n.jpg
 

Stone

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,186
Reaction score
54
Tokenz
0.00z
Your statement placed a condition of blindness on liberals and socialists while leaving the conservatives alone. I could infer a preference there. :)

I posted this:
"And yet none of the liberals/socialists responding in this thread seem to have seen and heard that Gates actually called for tax increases all around.
Some people only hear what they want to? "


You asked what blindness I was referring to in connection with Bill Gates statement and this thread:cool

The blindness is that Gates was calling for a tax increase on all taxpayers.

Maybe you are too sensitive? :D
 

Minor Axis

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,294
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.02z
I posted this:
"And yet none of the liberals/socialists responding in this thread seem to have seen and heard that Gates actually called for tax increases all around.
Some people only hear what they want to? "


You asked what blindness I was referring to in connection with Bill Gates statement and this thread:cool

The blindness is that Gates was calling for a tax increase on all taxpayers.

Maybe you are too sensitive? :D

I simply asked why you feel the liberals/socialists are the blind ones... You sound like the one making assumptions. Bill Gates statemented was very general. I have no problem with the concept of raising taxes on everyone. The debate is about how much does each group face?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Stone

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,186
Reaction score
54
Tokenz
0.00z
I simply asked why you feel the liberals/socialists are the blind ones... You sound like the one making assumptions. Bill Gates statemented was very general. I have no problem with the concept of raising taxes on everyone. The debate is about how much does each group face?

I simply asked why you feel the liberals/socialists are the blind ones...
You've been given the context and and the reason.

You sound like the one making assumptions.
And you sound like a whiner.

Bill Gates statemented was very general.
I can agree to that.

I have no problem with the concept of raising taxes on everyone.
But it does sound like you wet your pants over my observation :D


The debate is about how much does each group face?
The Gates video is presented as the concept of the very wealthy paying more as in their fair share.
I pointed out that he's also positioning an increase on the middle class, a lesser increase but an increase none the less....... much of which is already under economic stress and increased taxation on that class makes little sense if consumerism is one of the means to greater productivity and a expanding economy.

What's even funnier is to listen to the arguments that the wealthy should be paying the way out of this economic crisis and yet not realize Gates' position includes increases on taxpayers at the bottom of the heap, also.


I have no problem with the concept of raising taxes on everyone.
So....how do you think you can increase consumerism by removing even more capital from the middle class?
In the Dayton Daily News today, there was an article. Lack of financial cushion hurts economy. here's a statistic of concern:
43% of US households, 128 million, are "liquid asset poor" , own a home but don't have enough savings to cover expenses for at least 3 months.
http://www.daytondailynews.com/business/lack-of-financial-cushion-hurts-economy-1323632.html
Your position of tax and spend puts them further at risk of living in poverty.....and I'm not claiming the Republican position is better.

There is a good argument not to increase taxes on the middle class.
 

Johnfromokc

Active Member
Messages
3,226
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
There is a good argument not to increase taxes on the middle class.

Agreed. The middle class are already paying 25% to 35%. The top earners that are disguising their income as capital gains through ESOP's are the ones that need to get more of their skin in the game.
 

Alien Allen

Froggy the Prick
Messages
16,633
Reaction score
22
Tokenz
1,206.36z
Not at all. Why don't we go back to the Clinton tax rate? I've read that would fix a lot of the issues.

Same rates returned to for everybody?

So you favor a tax increase for the middle class?

What good will this do if you don't address spending?

Revenue has never been a problem on a federal level. Our country as a society pays more than enough into the system. The problem is the ever expanding budget of the govt. It starts with the flaw of base line budgeting. Which allows for automatic increases when we should be cutting spending or freezing it at a minimum
 

Johnfromokc

Active Member
Messages
3,226
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
Same rates returned to for everybody?

No. A flat tax benefits the rich and hurts the poor.

So you favor a tax increase for the middle class?

No. We are already paying 25% to 35%

What good will this do if you don't address spending?

We cannot unspend what we have already spent. Taxes were lowered and then we went into two wars and borrowed money to pay for them rather than asking the wealthiest - who benefitted financially from it - to actually pony up the taxes to pay for it.

Then all the anti-terrorism agencies sprung up and we pay for that with borrowed money.

Next, the bailouts came and we borrowed money to pay for those.

All the while, interest is accruing on all that borrowed money and people are still arguing that we can't raise taxes on the wealthy???

Revenue has never been a problem on a federal level. Our country as a society pays more than enough into the system. The problem is the ever expanding budget of the govt. It starts with the flaw of base line budgeting. Which allows for automatic increases when we should be cutting spending or freezing it at a minimum

It's the wars, anti terrorism agencies and the bailouts that have us in the hole. It is too late now to cut spending on wars and bailouts that have already been spent. You cannot spend all this borrowed money that benefitted the already wealthy and then turn around and cut Medicare and Social Security to pay for it.

The rich have to pay more taxes PERIOD. Why do some people insist on fucking themselves by defending the rich that are fucking them already? How much sense does that make?
 

Alien Allen

Froggy the Prick
Messages
16,633
Reaction score
22
Tokenz
1,206.36z
You do not address the current

Forget the debt

You won't even deal with the current budget deficit

And I was not referring to a flat tax. You do realize that if it was an across the board return to Clinton taxes that it means a tax increase on all? Except for the large number that get out of paying anything to begin with.
 

Alien Allen

Froggy the Prick
Messages
16,633
Reaction score
22
Tokenz
1,206.36z
And a 40% bracket is absurd

How does me stating that fuck myself?

How is wanting people to keep more of THEIR money fucking myself?

All rates need to be lowered and eliminate all deductions. As the poorer one is the less they are able to qualify for any deductions.

Certain things like food and housing should be tax free
 

Johnfromokc

Active Member
Messages
3,226
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
You do not address the current

Current what?

Forget the debt

Huh?

You won't even deal with the current budget deficit

Again..Huh?

And I was not referring to a flat tax. You do realize that if it was an across the board return to Clinton taxes that it means a tax increase on all? Except for the large number that get out of paying anything to begin with.

Look, this bullshit of a large number of people not paying taxes is bullshit rhetoric. When are you going to knock off the BS right wing talking points and acknowledge the FACT that the lowest 50% of workers only make 12% of all earned income in the U.S.???

If it's so fucking great in the bottom 50%, quit your business and join them and pay no tax.

And a 40% bracket is absurd

No it is not. When you make over $388,350 WTF is wrong with paying a little more to repair and maintain the infrastructure and system that allowed you to earn that income in the first place?

Further, WTF is moral or right about multi-million $$$ income earners only paying 15% while the rest of us pay 25% to 35% ????

How does me stating that fuck myself?

How is wanting people to keep more of THEIR money fucking myself?

If you vote against your own best interests you ARE fucking yourself. If you advocate for multi-millionaires paying only 15% while you pay the 25% to 35% you are fucking yourself.

How the fuck do you benefit by supporting policy that allows people to hoard shit loads of money? These people will still be rich if they pay 40% and we will all benefit from improved infrastructure.

All rates need to be lowered and eliminate all deductions. As the poorer one is the less they are able to qualify for any deductions.

We have already tried that and FAILED. It's called "Trickle Down Economics". How many times do you need to see it fail until you admit we need to do something different?

Certain things like food and housing should be tax free

No problem there, but the rich gotta pay more. Whether you like it or not, that is what must happen to unfuck this mess. We have been lowering taxes on the wealthy for 50 fucking years and look where that has got us.
 

Stone

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,186
Reaction score
54
Tokenz
0.00z
Not at all. Why don't we go back to the Clinton tax rate? I've read that would fix a lot of the issues.

Why don't we go back to the Clinton tax rate?

The Republicans are blocking it.

But it's not a cure-all.
There are a host of issues large enough to be considered at the same time.
Big one is the spending habits of the Feds and debt generation.
Many States are facing fiscal issues over underfunded public sector pension funds.
Obamacare is going to be an additional cost to all taxpayers.
SS is facing it's own fund issues as baby boomers start to flock to retirement.
Off shoring because of labor costs. And that's not just union......professional jobs like in the sciences are being off shored, also.

Those issues weren't of the same magnitude under Clinton as today for many reasons.
 

Stone

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,186
Reaction score
54
Tokenz
0.00z
...........................

No problem there, but the rich gotta pay more. Whether you like it or not, that is what must happen to unfuck this mess. We have been lowering taxes on the wealthy for 50 fucking years and look where that has got us.

but the rich gotta pay more.
I can certainly see the point when high end incomes like Romney's are taxed at 15%.
However, the middle class are now living in conditions that didn't exist under Clinton.

There are other issues vital to their well being and increased taxation isn't a solution to particular problems.
Energy is one of them.
Since Clinton, the public has been paying up to 500% more in petroleum products, in particular, gasoline, diesel and home heating oil. If you remember the headlines during the 2007/2008 period, many of the middle class were having to decide on how to allot their weekly budgets on food,clothing and medication as their lines of credit were already used up......from increases in fuel/energy. This was a factor in the general financial cascade event driving the banking industry to it's knees as shaky mortgages defaulted in unusually high numbers, eventually including many job positions once thought safe and home defaults progressing into what was once thought of as safe.
And those increases in energy are also reflected in manufacturing costs and business expenses....another factor that the middle class has to face as consumers.

The banking failure started a financial cascade in the business sector with unemployment further driving that cascade. At that point, there's not only a business sector to rebuild, there's the need to encourage rapid expansion to reabsorb the unemployed and at the same time provide new jobs for those leaving schools and universities.

Public sector pensions are becoming an economic burden. A really big issue at many state levels. It's a defacto tax on the horizon that has the ability to destabilize economies at the state level.
A good read here ( a pdf )
http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/downloads/The_Trillion_Dollar_Gap_final.pdf
And this popped up recently.....underfunded public sector pension funds are now embracing more risk in trying to offset their financial shortfalls>
http://www.ai-cio.com/channel/ASSET...nsions_Pile_on_Risk_to_Beat_Underfunding.html
The taxpayers of those state now have to assume even greater risk.

Clinton had two important things going for him.....cheap energy and a technology boom.
Today energy isn't cheap and that boom is now largely discounted.
(One new avenue is green energy.....and to gain rapid acceptance, tax breaks in new markets of the past have shown a means to generate/encourage those markets.)
Clinton did not pass universal health care. He abandoned it because of lack of support. This now will be added on middle class taxpayers at a time when any tax increase is a negative upon them.

It's obvious that the economy isn't going to get better in a reasonable time with out a stimulation of business.
It's obvious the middle class isn't going to benefit from their being taxed more. That's a double edged sword, too......it not only hurts their precarious status, it reduces their participation as consumers...and that's a business concern.
But tax rates aren't everything. There is also the issue of an accumulation of taxes and a reduction of deductions that drive revenue increases.
Taxation essentially reduces expenditures.....and the middle class is especially sensitive.


that is what must happen to unfuck this mess.
Even the CBO has warned that increasing the tax rates too much would have a negative effect on economic recovery.
How much is too much? I don't know.....but I'd rather phase in changes in smaller increments than make broad jumps to past rates.
But there's a lot more to address than just federal income tax increases.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Pat1

New Member
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
Mine too. We could start a charitable foundation to help the rich feel better by paying other's taxes.
 
78,874Threads
2,185,387Messages
4,959Members
Back
Top