Bill Gates Says He Doesn't Pay Enough Tax

[Peter Parka]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

Yup, you're right, there's only a certain amount of money that a man needs without being able to improve his life. Not sure where retro is going because he has accused me of something then changed his mind what he accused me of. And back to the point, Bill Gates is right and people who can effortly afford more tax should pay more rather that picking on people who are scraping to make a living as it is.

 

[retro]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

I didn't change my mind about anything... I merely phrased what I said originally poorly.

 

[Peter Parka]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

A clever and diplomatic turn around to save face, you should be a politician! :thumbup

 

[retro]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

A clever and diplomatic turn around to save face, you should be a politician! :thumbup

Or, it was the truth, and you're acting like too much of an ass to realize it. I admit when I screw something up, like I did with this. What I said could've been taken the way that I intended it; however I can see how you took it the way that you did.

So why don't you get back to what we were originally discussing before you went off on this tangent? Or did you choose to go this direction because you couldn't actually refute anything that I had to say? I'm more than willing to guess that it's the latter.

 

[Peter Parka]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

Ok, where were we before you cleverly steered the topic in a different direction? Oh yeah, I think Bill Gates is right to think filthy rich people should pay more taxes.:thumbup

 

[Accountable]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

He could, you've missed the point, he thinks he SHOULD.

Not quite. He thinks rich people should, not just himself. If he truly believed the gov't needs more money and that he's not paying his fair share, he would figure out what that share should be and make a big deal out of donating it freely and challenging other billionaires to do likewise.

Yes, I feel really sorry for the poverty stricken people on 100K a year.:sarcasm As I said, Gates has put his money where his mouth is

Wrong. He put his money in business and charity. He put his mouth on taxes. Big difference

Bill Gates free donations have helped poor people more than if he just gave it to the government to buy another nuke. I stand by my point.

Actually, you just knocked yourself off your point better than I could have myself. Gates' donations have helped poor people more than if that money had been taken in taxes. Your point was that he should have paid more in taxes, wasn't it?

Yup, you're right, there's only a certain amount of money that a man needs without being able to improve his life.

That's not relevant, unless you're advocating to place a cap on overall earnings, taxing 100% of income over that amount. The more important issue nobody seems to acknowledge is whether the US gov't NEEDS the money. It doesn't. The US gov't NEEDS to budget, to plan spending within the expected revenue rather than taxing to cover the expected spending.

 

[Panacea]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

So what, some (notably 2) rich people think rich people should pay more taxes during this financial downturn. Get in a twist about it. :tooth Their words have little to no impact on policy. Obama's been saying it longer and if he can't get it popularized, no one can. Fear not.

 

[CityGirl]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, it seems to me, are shedding light on the fact that the millionaire and billionaire classes have much/most of their income via means that are taxable under capital gains at 15%. They are pointing out that the working man who gains ALL his income from the investment of time, sweat, actual labor have their incomes taxed up to 35% and overtime, which for much of the working class IS their capital gains, is taxed at their highest marginal tax rate. They are pointing out that their is something fundamentally wrong with a system structured this way. I think the system is set up in a way that it "takes from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned" Our income tax system does just this...It is earned income that is taxed heavily while the passive and capital gains incomes are taxed signficantly less. Again, I think it is to this disparity that Buffet and Gates are pointing.

I'm amazed that the 35% tax bracket consists of those earning > $388,350. http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm That these upper middle class earners are taxed at the same rate as the Warren Buffets and Bill Gates of the country astounds me. There should be more brackets above $388,350. I personally think the system is set up this way because those on the lower end of this bracket who really feel an increase in taxes are a buffer and protector of the high earners. They become the squeaky wheel that keeps the system functioning to benefit the wealthy.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

I'm sick and tired of hearing these rich people claiming that they don't pay enough in taxes. If they feel like they should be paying more, then they should donate money to the government.

Retro, why is it you feel it necessary to defend billionaires that pay 15% on their incomes? How does it make your life better advocating for those who arrange their compensation such that they pay a lower percentage than people who actually are paid salaries and wages? What's the payoff for you?

 

[Johnfromokc]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

Kinda fitting eh?

 

[retro]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

Retro, why is it you feel it necessary to defend billionaires that pay 15% on their incomes? How does it make your life better advocating for those who arrange their compensation such that they pay a lower percentage than people who actually are paid salaries and wages? What's the payoff for you?

I'm not defending anyone. I'm merely saying that it's bullshit for these guys to sit there and say things like they should be taxed more... when they have the ability to pay more and they don't do it. I'm asking for them to put their money where their mouths are and prove that they say what they mean... otherwise it's just a bunch of empty words.

Notice how I haven't said that the rich are paying too much or too little... I'm merely commenting on how hypocritical it is to hear a bunch of empty words with nothing to back them up with.

 

[retro]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

Kinda fitting eh?

That's an amusing graphic...

1) There is no 30% tax bracket, it goes from 28% to 33%

2) People in the upper range of the 28% bracket and the entire 33% bracket are considered to be "rich, if you listen to what your heroes say. Hell, Peter even called people making $100k "rich" earlier on in this thread.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

That's an amusing graphic...

1) There is no 30% tax bracket, it goes from 28% to 33%

The 30% is an average. All of your income passes through brackets: 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33% and 35%. Just because some of your income is in the 33% or 35% bracket does not mean you paid exactly that percent on your total income. I've averaged my income taxes out after all deductions for a total of 26% last year. There's no 26% bracket, but I certainly paid it.

2) People in the upper range of the 28% bracket and the entire 33% bracket are considered to be "rich, if you listen to what your heroes say. Hell, Peter even called people making $100k "rich" earlier on in this thread.

100K passes into the 25% bracket. Our houshold income has exceeded $100K since around 1992. I know I'm not rich because I don't pay 15%. Poverty sucks - I need to get into the billionaires 15% club.

Why do some folks find it reasonable to expect the capital gains class to be entitled to pay a lower tax rate than us Schedule C and salaried folks?

 

[retro]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

I was going off of the single tax rate, not the married jointly rate. As far as the 30% thing goes... that's fair, but it's disingenuous to claim that the 15% are being propped up by the "poor" paying 30%, when the amount of people paying 30% is far less than those that are paying much less.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

I was going off of the single tax rate, not the married jointly rate. As far as the 30% thing goes... that's fair, but it's disingenuous to claim that the 15% are being propped up by the "poor" paying 30%, when the amount of people paying 30% is far less than those that are paying much less.

Who said anyone was propping up the capital gains club? They're doing quite well on their own.

It is reasonable to expect those who have benefitted the most from our collectively funded infrastructure to pay proportionally in taxation for making their profits possible in the first place. Right now, instead of helping to pay to fix our roads, bridges, sewers, dams, water systems in a reasonable proportion, they are accumulating massive amounts of cash in every tax loophole available. Trickle down economics has failed - you remember "Trickle Down" aka "Supply Side Economics" right? You know - that economic theory if We the People let the wealthiest keep more and more of the money they earned from our labor, they would reciporcate and "trickle" prosperity down upon the masses like manna from heaven? 30 years later and here we are. Didn't work out too good did it?

Bottom line - the wealthiest are going to have to step up. And they won't do it of their own acccord - they will have to be required by law. It's going to take tax increases along with certain spending cuts to get the country back on track - both, not one or the other.

 

[Alien Allen]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

If a really rich person pays only 15% in taxes yet donates 15% is that a more effective use of the money than paying a 30% tax rate?

 

[Maulds]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

If a really rich person pays only 15% in taxes yet donates 15% is that a more effective use of the money than paying a 30% tax rate?

If they donate it to something worthy? Or to the government who will in turn spend it on something stupid like studying handwashing habits of Tibetan midgets.

 

[Accountable]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

It's not a habit! It's a ritual. Get it straight. :jk

 

[Johnfromokc]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

If a really rich person pays only 15% in taxes yet donates 15% is that a more effective use of the money than paying a 30% tax rate?

OK - name something these billionaires are donating to that is helping to alleviate low wages, lack of affordable health care and unemployment in the United States. And then explain why it is not working.

If they donate it to something worthy? Or to the government who will in turn spend it on something stupid like studying handwashing habits of Tibetan midgets.

Why is it you guys ignore the FACT that our national infrastructure is in disrepair and it must be fixed? Why is it you guys don't seem to understand that the bulk of the funds to pay for this infrastructure has to come primarily from the people who got rich as a result of our infrastructure? Why is it you guys defend the 15% club as you work your own asses off and pay a higher income tax rate? Instead of looking for solutions, you "anti-government-at-all-costs" folks seem to want to maintain the status quo. How much sense does that make?

 

[Accountable]

Re: Bill Gates Says He Dosen't Pay Enough Tax

[...] the bulk of the funds to pay for this infrastructure has to come primarily from the people who got rich as a result of our infrastructure[.]

It doesn't have to come from there. It would be better to come from the federal waste created by extraneous and unnecessary agencies such as the dept of education and by reeling in our empirical military and reducing it to a federal defense posture.