Are Western Churches and Governments promoting hate?

[Tuffdisc]

I challenge you to find where I called you a homophobe. Don't put words in my mouth.
But you are right about one thing, I don't like you. I think you're backwards and stupid.

I have a couple of gay friends, and if I had to choose between you and 'biology', and them - well, it's an easy choice.

I didn't say you, I said for those people who have accused me because of my views

Well that is good for you have gay friends, but that doesn't mean to say I am backward and stupid as you claim, insults at the end of the day doesn't prove you are right and doing so only proves that the person is wrong and cowardice and can't discuss things in proving any theories are wrong :thumbup

 

[mazHur]

I recall someone somewhere on this thread did call Tuff a homophobe?? That's bad.

I believe that forgivenesss is exclusive prerogative of God.....but no one can say for sure that would be forgiven by God because he is 'pious' or a 'gay' ?? In the light of God's word those who act against his Commands seem to have least probability of being forgiven at all!! If evil-doers think themselves absolved from wrath of God i think that's not in conformity with God's commands nor in line with commonsense!

The Bible is a divine book and even Muslims have to believe in it to be true Muslims. But since the present editions of the Bible have undergone several changes they refuse to take its word as genuine. however, if someone doesn't believe in the word of the Bible just because it has been changed by human hands he has options such as the code of Hammurabi , or code of Ashoka, but you will say those are dead codes....okay then try the Living Quran which has not undergone any change for the last more than 1400 years and still no one can dare change it!!! It also condemns homosexuality......for good reason ofcourse!

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Code+of+Hammurabi

 

[mazHur]

I didn't say you, I said for those people who have accused me because of my views

Well that is good for you have gay friends, but that doesn't mean to say I am backward and stupid as you claim, insults at the end of the day doesn't prove you are right and doing so only proves that the person is wrong and cowardice and can't discuss things in proving any theories are wrong :thumbup

Tuff is tuff and I like his reasoning rationale....and if I were given to choose from him and gays I will hasten
to befriend God-fearing and down-to-earth Tuff!!

 

[Accountable]

oh, man! God created man in his image and gave him WILL, which connotes that he did not create Evil but left
it for the humans to choose good from bad!!
And ofcourse, God doesn't hate humans, he hates Evil and evil-doers. This is also the Muslim belief.

God only created us, mankind does the doing of wrong

So at what point does the wrong-doer or evil-doer cease to become human? I ask because both of you say He doesn't hate people because he created them, yet he hates those who do wrong or evil.

I'd say getting into heaven despite committing the ultimate sin counts as being forgiven...

Murder isn't the ultimate sin, is it? I thought the ultimate sin was rejecting God, or denying God, something like that.

 

[Tuffdisc]

So at what point does the wrong-doer or evil-doer cease to become human? I ask because both of you say He doesn't hate people because he created them, yet he hates those who do wrong or evil.

Murder isn't the ultimate sin, is it? I thought the ultimate sin was rejecting God, or denying God, something like that.

Who says that they cease to be human? After all, they are capable of having remorse for their wrong doings? If they did not repent of their sins they wouldn't be accepted by God

 

[mazHur]

Who says that they cease to be human? After all, they are capable of having remorse for their wrong doings? If they did not repent of their sins they wouldn't be accepted by God

:thumbup

 

[Accountable]

Who says that they cease to be human? After all, they are capable of having remorse for their wrong doings? If they did not repent of their sins they wouldn't be accepted by God

YOU did. What you claimed is impossible, otherwise.

You said God doesn't hate humans because he created them, and that Got hates wrong-doers, sinners. So it follows that either God didn't create humans, or that we cease to become human when we do wrong.

 

[Tuffdisc]

YOU did. What you claimed is impossible, otherwise.

You said God doesn't hate humans because he created them, and that Got hates wrong-doers, sinners. So it follows that either God didn't create humans, or that we cease to become human when we do wrong.

Sorry I did not say they cease to be human, that is the fattest lie I have ever heard on this site, so if you want to talk rational again, please let me know. I cease to talk to you again until then

 

[Accountable]

Sorry I did not say they cease to be human, that is the fattest lie I have ever heard on this site, so if you want to talk rational again, please let me know. I cease to talk to you again until then

I apologize for offending you. That wasn't my intention. I'm trying to find the disconnect that I see between your claim that God "hates sin, and wrongdoers" and that He "has never hated his creation," presumably humans, based on the context of your post I quote the phrase from.

If God has never hated humans, yet hates wrongdoers .... either humans cannot do wrong, wrongdoers were not human from the start, or humans that do wrong cease to be human.

Feel free to be as caustic or elementary as you wish. I just want to know how both of your statements can be Truth simultaneously.

 

[Tuffdisc]

I apologize for offending you. That wasn't my intention. I'm trying to find the disconnect that I see between your claim that God "hates sin, and wrongdoers" and that He "has never hated his creation," presumably humans, based on the context of your post I quote the phrase from.

If God has never hated humans, yet hates wrongdoers .... either humans cannot do wrong, wrongdoers were not human from the start, or humans that do wrong cease to be human.

Feel free to be as caustic or elementary as you wish. I just want to know how both of your statements can be Truth simultaneously.

Evil is not of his doing, people on this site has speculated that he created evil, but that isn't true that has come what I have heard as from a fallen archangel.

We are capable of creating evil in what we do, that is saying that not all of what we do is wrong, yeah, you can be good without the need to worship God, but what makes you stand out to God is worship towards him

God hates the people who do and create evil to others. I was not being caustic but felt that you were accusing me of saying the complete opposite of what I said. I don't mind a conversation where it proves that I was wrong, it improves my good doing to others.

 

[BornReady]

Murder isn't the ultimate sin, is it? I thought the ultimate sin was rejecting God, or denying God, something like that.

This is an astute observation for someone who has only been peripherally involved in Christianity. It is one of the main problems with traditional Christianity imo.

 

[Accountable]

Where has God said that he hated people?

See post 163.

Oh please, he has never hated his creation, that is just silly,

God hates the people who do and create evil to others.

Again, how can these two stances both be true?

 

[Tuffdisc]

Again, how can these two stances both be true?

What two stances?

 

[Greatest I am]

oh, man! God created man in his image and gave him WILL, which connotes that he did not create Evil but left
it for the humans to choose good from bad!!
And ofcourse, God doesn't hate humans, he hates Evil and evil-doers. This is also the Muslim belief.

Are evil doers not human and if he hates evil doers is he not hating humans?

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

How can God, the good tree bring forth corrupt fruit/us?

Regards
DL

 

[Tuffdisc]

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

How can God, the good tree bring forth corrupt fruit/us?

Regards
DL

If we are so corrupt as to not to repent, then we can't bring forth good fruit

 

[Greatest I am]

God only created us, mankind does the doing of wrong

Sodom and Noah's genocide were good?
It is good to kill or murder instead of cure?

Regards
DL

 

[Tuffdisc]

Sodom and Noah's genocide were good?
It is good to kill or murder instead of cure?

Regards
DL

Free will is all I do have to say, your opinion was that it is genocide, but not in God's view

 

[Greatest I am]

I recall someone somewhere on this thread did call Tuff a homophobe?? That's bad.

I believe that forgivenesss is exclusive prerogative of God.....but no one can say for sure that would be forgiven by God because he is 'pious' or a 'gay' ?? In the light of God's word those who act against his Commands seem to have least probability of being forgiven at all!! If evil-doers think themselves absolved from wrath of God i think that's not in conformity with God's commands nor in line with commonsense!

The Bible is a divine book and even Muslims have to believe in it to be true Muslims. But since the present editions of the Bible have undergone several changes they refuse to take its word as genuine. however, if someone doesn't believe in the word of the Bible just because it has been changed by human hands he has options such as the code of Hammurabi , or code of Ashoka, but you will say those are dead codes....okay then try the Living Quran which has not undergone any change for the last more than 1400 years and still no one can dare change it!!! It also condemns homosexuality......for good reason ofcourse!

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Code+of+Hammurabi

What exactly is the good reason for condemning Gays?
Other than it is written and the man and woman thing, I have never heard anything else.
Educate us briefly please.

Regards
DL

 

[Tuffdisc]

What exactly is the good reason for condemning Gays?
Other than it is written and the man and woman thing, I have never heard anything else.
Educate us briefly please.

Regards
DL

You haven't learn't biology at 60? Wow, amazing

 

[BornReady]

Free will is all I do have to say, your opinion was that it is genocide, but not in God's view

People who commit genocide don't think of it as such. They always have a rationalization for it. But that doesn't make it right. Genocide is wrong whatever you want to call it.

Just so no one thinks I'm attacking God. God did not commit genocide. These stories are both myths and they tell us nothing about God. These stories only tell us what the ancient Hebrews thought about God. And quite frankly they didn't have a very kind view of him.