American Wages and Healthcare Compared To Australia

[Panacea]

I would counter that it's not a "fear" of Socialism... it's just a concept that runs counter to everything our country was founded on, therefore the vast majority of Americans simply don't want it.

Quite simply put, I don't think this country was founded on millions of people being denied reasonable access to health care.

 

[Pet Sounds]

 

[Panacea]

Lol, yes, I easily walked into an empty MRI office on New Years a few years ago to check for a pituitary tumor. Zero indication of anything later (luckily), I had a bill for $2,000 after insurance covered part of it. Here they actually have commercials for local MRI facilities shown every half hour, because they're making an obscene profit off of them.

 

[Pet Sounds]

Quite simply put, I don't think this country was founded on millions of people being denied reasonable access to health care.

Quite simply put, we as a country were not founded on the right to government provided healthcare at all.

But anyway, the idea that the US is too cheap and coldhearted to provide healthcare for its own citizens is an often repeated myth. The US Government spends far more money per citizen on healthcare than Australia, or any other country does. Money isn't the problem. This is why our citizens have so much more access to hi tech medical equipment like the MRI image I posted. The US has more than five times as many MRI machines per person than Australia does. Are these MRI machines sitting in the closet collecting dust? No, they are being used. And countries like Australia could use a hell of a lot more of them.

The US has safety net programs that we spend a fortune on and provide healthcare for people who don't have any way of getting it. That is what it is there for. I would bet at least 75% people without health insurance in the US would be eligible to get it, but don't because they are too lazy or ignorant to sit down for a 3 hour interview. The government paid for every damn prescription, medical procedure, including surgery, endoscopies, ER visits, ambulance costs, GP visits, special visits, every test they could run, paid to get my teeth cleened, cavities filled, paid for my eye glasses and eye exams. I did not pay one cent for any of these things for years. Literally nothing. There was no co pay. This went on for years until I was able to get a job to support myself. That is what these programs are there for, and people are using them. Which is why we are spending so much. I can't at all complain about the US healthcare system because I had nothing and it gave me everything. And I don't think I am any exception. I didn't charm my way into it. Anybody who walked into that office would have gotten the same treatment.

 

[Pet Sounds]

Lol, yes, I easily walked into an empty MRI office on New Years a few years ago to check for a pituitary tumor. Zero indication of anything later (luckily), I had a bill for $2,000 after insurance covered part of it. Here they actually have commercials for local MRI facilities shown every half hour, because they're making an obscene profit off of them.

Is there any hopsital or medical outfit that doesn't advertise? The Hospital I worked at ran commercials all the time about their cardiac unit being top 5 in the nation. Yes, they want patients to go there. Big fucking deal.

If they aren't needed, then why do they have them? They are vital to any practicioner. Are you saying doctors are forcing unneccessary tests on people and trying to screw them? If you would prefer our numbers to be down at the levels of Mexico, Eastern Europe, and Australia, thats your problem. Maybe then you could have gotten your wish and had to wait weeks in a crowded room for an MRI for what could have been a life threatening condition.

 

[dkwrtw]

I hear good things about Australia, would be my first choice if I ever had to flee the US

 

[Tim]

Is there any hopsital or medical outfit that doesn't advertise? The Hospital I worked at ran commercials all the time about their cardiac unit being top 5 in the nation. Yes, they want patients to go there. Big fucking deal.

If they aren't needed, then why do they have them? They are vital to any practicioner. Are you saying doctors are forcing unneccessary tests on people with ionizing radiation? If you would prefer our numbers to be down at the levels of Mexico, Eastern Europe, and Australia, thats your problem. Maybe then you could have gotten your wish and had to wait weeks in a crowded room for an MRI for what could have been a life threatening condition.

I think you are missing the point.

A commercial for an MRI facility is wasted money. You CANNOT get an MRI without a doctor sending you there, so why advertise? And if a doctor determines you need an MRI, they don't just send you out to any facility you want to go to, it's typically an MRI associated with his hospital. So why the commercials?

 

[Tangerine]

Quite simply put, I don't think this country was founded on millions of people being denied reasonable access to health care.

People are not denied reasonable access to health care.

 

[Tim]

People are not denied reasonable access to health care.

But thousands are denied their homes when the bill comes due.

 

[Pet Sounds]

I think you are missing the point.

A commercial for an MRI facility is wasted money. You CANNOT get an MRI without a doctor sending you there, so why advertise? And if a doctor determines you need an MRI, they don't just send you out to any facility you want to go to, it's typically an MRI associated with his hospital. So why the commercials?

Maybe the commercials are for doctors, or patients. If I have a heart problem and my doctor refers me to a university hospital, I could then say, um...no, I would rather go to the one that has been ranked top 5 in the country. (from which I know about from seeing a commercial) And he would refer me there instead. When you get referred to a specialist/surgeon/ they often give you a list of different providers. They give you a choice. Like when I had my surgery, they offered me a choice between three different hospitals. I knew which one to choose and had a specific hospital and surgeon I wanted. My aunt knew the surgeon personally, actually is a surgical tech who worked with him, and everyone who knows about the subject knew he was the best guy around. I was recently given a refeeral to an ENT and they asked me which doctor I wanted and I just told them to give me whatever because I don't care. But the choice is there. Maybe if I saw a commercial from an ENT place I would have been more inclined to ask for a referral to there.

And you can't buy prescription drugs without doctor's orders either. So why advertise them so much? The companies pay a lot for these commercials aimed at the general public though. Trust me, it's not wasted money.

 

[Tim]

And you can't buy prescription drugs without doctor's orders either. So why advertise them so much? The companies pay a lot for these commercials aimed at the general public though. Trust me, it's not wasted money.

Do you know why companies advertise products that you can't buy? It's actually a very simple reason...

Drug company A will spend millions in advertising with cable company B. They will not make any sales on these commercials, but there is a major benefit to the drug company. And that benefit is control. Cable company B will not risk losing millions in advertising dollars by running a negative story about drug company A.

It's all about controlling the message, and they do it very well.

 

[Pet Sounds]

For example, the state medicaid I was on, has a provider list. It is literally like a hundred pages. In it are all doctors in the area who take medicaid. And you can look it up by speciality. So if I had a digestive problem, I look down at the gastro doc section and there are at least a dozen doctors, all associated with different hospitals and associations, that I could choose from within a 30 mile radius. This goes for anything. Every single speciality has at least a dozen different doctors in the area you can choose from. These are high end, top places too. Not holes in the wall. The top general surgeron in my area took mediicaid. The state has spent tens of thousands of dollars on healthcare for me alone. It's not something I am proud of, but that is what it is there for. For people who need it.

 

[Tangerine]

But thousands are denied their homes when the bill comes due.

That's not what was said.

 

[itsmeJonB]

Not only that but australian chicks are hot

 

[Pet Sounds]

Do you know why companies advertise products that you can't buy? It's actually a very simple reason...

Drug company A will spend millions in advertising with cable company B. They will not make any sales on these commercials, but there is a major benefit to the drug company. And that benefit is control. Cable company B will not risk losing millions in advertising dollars by running a negative story about drug company A.

It's all about controlling the message, and they do it very well.

Not really. The FDA and science journals do a decent job of keeping pharmacutical companies in check. I mean any pill that you will be prescribed, you can find tons of peer reviewed literature by many independent scientists just on Google. These drugs are being tested scientifically and have to use many qualifiers in advertisement. I mean nearly every drug commercial you see on TV, the part where they list the side effects is almost the majority of the commercial. They literally sit there and rail off side effects for like 30 seconds, many of them serious. It's enough to scare the fuck out of people. Getting FDA approval is also a long process with many steps.

I think they advertise because they count on people going into their doctor's and requesting those drugs by name. And doctors often do it.

 

[cam elle toe]

Lol, yes, I easily walked into an empty MRI office on New Years a few years ago to check for a pituitary tumor. Zero indication of anything later (luckily), I had a bill for $2,000 after insurance covered part of it. Here they actually have commercials for local MRI facilities shown every half hour, because they're making an obscene profit off of them.

:eek I have never had any health insurance and only had to pay (I think) $180 for my MRI. Its free if your covered.

I havent studied your taxes/rates etc to compare to ours or judge. I DO see how you guys have to struggle to get a script filled or see a doctor if you DONT have insurance, and I think thats pretty sad.

No medical imagery companies OR doctors adverise here. You get ads for certain drugs like Headache tabs etc, but NO drug company adverts either.

I dont see a huge difference in the cost of living, and I have no idea about how taxes compare because I honestly have no reason to compare OR even check your rates out, I DO know I get a healthy return each year which goes towards spending money on my paid vacay.:thumbup

I remember reading on here once how pregnant women who arent insured will try and give birth in the ambulance or something so they DONT have to pay the huge fees, and was aghast.
I have not paid a cent to have any of my children, and that includes scans, blood tests, check ups and the actual delivery.

 

[cam elle toe]

To get 4 weeks fully paid vacation leave (and 17% loading) you need to be what's considered a full time employee...ie..working 35 hours plus per week. You dont get the hols until you have worked at your place of employment for 12 months. The hourly rate (depending on your job) is less than a perm/part time or casual employee

I am currently considered permanent/part time...which means my employer must give me a minimum of 15 hours per week, then how many paid sick days and vacation time I get is apportioned out over how many hours I have done. So, for instance...if I work an average 20 hours per week, I would get 2 weeks paid leave. (you can accrue them too)

A casual employee generally earns a fairly good hourly rate....anything from $20 per hour up...but they get no paid holidays, no paid sick days, and there is no guaranteed weekly hours. So, one week you may work 49 hours, the next 5.

 

[cam elle toe]

PD, as much as I love San Francisco, I'd take the Melbourne job. Australia has a strict immigration policy. Once you hit age 45, that's it for your elgibility for residency. This strict immigration policy is likely a large contributing factor to Australia's social and economic success. Yet another issue we could stand to learn from. But if you meet the requirements, and have an employer sponsor you, the pay and benefits are superior to nearly anything you could acquire here. Awesome public transportation, even better than Sydney's I'm told - and Sydney was great! Hands down my favorite city on the planet so far.

This does make me :24:

If you live in the country..its non existant. If I did not drive, I could NOT rely on public transport to get to work. There is a bus into town twice a day, and it costs a shitload to catch it.:thumbdown

I cant comment on melbourne...maybe Gillby will be able to enlighten us on their P.T., but Sydney, when I lived there was so-so. Trains never ran on time, were cancelled or delayed...and stopped running altogether at midnight. Strikes were the norm, and the taxi drivers are all foreign and cant understand you:willy_nilly:

 

[Johnfromokc]

This does make me :24:

If you live in the country..its non existant. If I did not drive, I could NOT rely on public transport to get to work. There is a bus into town twice a day, and it costs a shitload to catch it.:thumbdown

I cant comment on melbourne...maybe Gillby will be able to enlighten us on their P.T., but Sydney, when I lived there was so-so. Trains never ran on time, were cancelled or delayed...and stopped running altogether at midnight. Strikes were the norm, and the taxi drivers are all foreign and cant understand you:willy_nilly:

That's why I need you to keep me honest Cammie. We drove hundreds of miles through the country and through small towns, and no public transit out there to be sure. Fuel is expensive, but Aussies tend to drive fuel efficient gasoline vehicles and small diesel cars & SUV's instead of the big honking 10 mpg (23.52 liters per 100 km) suv's we Americans think we are entitled to drive. Also, every Australian fuel station we pulled into had compressed natural gas (CNG or LNG)...can't recall if it was the "compressed" or "liquified" natural gas - but they had it widely available and have for many years I'm told.

Here's some South Australian contry roads we saw:

You know, my mate in SA told me the same thing about Sydney public transit. But our experience was quite different. The Rugby "State of Origin" was going on while we were there and we went to the Olympic Stadium in Sydney to watch one. (what a huge stadium!) That transit authority opened up the train system for free afterward to get all the intoxicated fans home safely. We were massively impressed by that and by how smooth it ran for us foreigners. That was a mini adventure in itself for us - another story for another thread. But I will readily agree that it is quite different to use public transit on holiday as opposed to depending on the public transit schedules for your morning commute.

 

[Panacea]

:eek I have never had any health insurance and only had to pay (I think) $180 for my MRI. Its free if your covered.

I havent studied your taxes/rates etc to compare to ours or judge. I DO see how you guys have to struggle to get a script filled or see a doctor if you DONT have insurance, and I think thats pretty sad.

No medical imagery companies OR doctors adverise here. You get ads for certain drugs like Headache tabs etc, but NO drug company adverts either.

I dont see a huge difference in the cost of living, and I have no idea about how taxes compare because I honestly have no reason to compare OR even check your rates out, I DO know I get a healthy return each year which goes towards spending money on my paid vacay.:thumbup

I remember reading on here once how pregnant women who arent insured will try and give birth in the ambulance or something so they DONT have to pay the huge fees, and was aghast.
I have not paid a cent to have any of my children, and that includes scans, blood tests, check ups and the actual delivery.

The stories from our health care system can definitely swing both ways. We have short wait times, and sometimes really good doctors and cutting edge procedures, but that doesn't extend to the general public most of the time.

I commend the US medical field's workers, as I am sure they are some of the best in the world, but what you've said is right. It costs thousands to have a baby when you're uninsured here. You can be flat out denied life saving treatment here if you are not insured.

Hell, I just fainted at the hospital my mom has been at and got a bill for $600 because they put me on a gurney to go downstairs and get an IV bag of saline. I bawled my eyes out because I knew it would cost so much, they thought I was in pain lol, I was like "let me go!!"

My parents are in hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical debt from my mom's cancer, which she is dying from because she had been given too much radiation (now I didn't believe this, she always said they did this to her and I said she was paranoid. I trust doctors here a lot and give them the benefit of the doubt but her own ER nurse has been lamenting that she'd been over treated. That nurse works with the doctor my mom had) I'm sure that happens other places too, just saying. My mom has relatively good insurance, which my dad has been able to get from his job on the condition he doesn't get a raise in pay (hasn't for 10 years).

My parents will never be able to live a normal life again, that debt will hound them forever. It's sickening. How do they think the stress of those bills affect people's health?? Ugh, I just...