Alcoholics Anonymous

[MjaneGibson]

Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't make it "gay" by any stretch of the imagination. AA/NA/HA/etc works for some people. If you feel that talking about your feelings doesn't work for you, that's fine. But you can't knock the people who it does help. And without some sort of cognitive behavioral therapy or some such, I don't think there's a "cure" for a chemical imbalance.

You're the type of person that is the reason people self medicate with alcohol and drugs. Because to you, and many many others, it's not socially or culturally acceptable for a man to ask for help. And that's a bull attitude.

well said:clap

 

[BornReady]

AA/NA/HA/etc works for some people.

But does AA really work? Is there less of a problem with alcohol and drugs today than there was 70 or so years ago before AA existed? Maybe AA is really just a fellowship of addicts where addicts get sympathy from each other without ever really taking responsibility for them self and deciding to change once and for all. He can just blame beating his wife on his disease and never actually stop beating her. Sure he'll stop beating her for awhile until he has his next relapse which he can't help of course, just ask his friends at AA. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. Poor man.

I realize I'm being harsh and this is a controversial issue. But I am skeptical how helpful AA really is. Perhaps the people who recover through AA would have recovered without it. I'm not sure the best way to teach responsibility to someone is having them hang out with irresponsible people.

I admire anyone who recovers from drug or alcohol addiction with or without AA. It must be a very difficult thing to do and they have my respect.

 

[anathelia]

Even if it works for only one person, it helps.

And I can attest to the benefit to these programs, as I know people who have or are going through them. You have to remember that if someone doesn't want to be helped, these programs can't help. It took an overdose and having to relearn how to do everything for my brother to stop doing cocaine. It's not a matter of whether or not it works. It's a matter of whether or not the person in the program actually wants the help and wants to get better.

But yes, once an addict, always an addict. It doesn't just go away because you stop doing it. You will always have the cravings and the desire. It's just a matter of whether or not you are capable of having the willpower to overcome the cravings and not do something about it. I understand the skeptic in the situation, but I don't understand why we have to lump everyone who's an alcoholic or an addict into the same group of assholes.

 

[BornReady]

But yes, once an addict, always an addict.

But doesn't that just give the addict an excuse to continue hurting people? If someone really wants to change then they can. It's a matter of how bad you want it.

I understand the skeptic in the situation, but I don't understand why we have to lump everyone who's an alcoholic or an addict into the same group of assholes.

Yeah, I see your point but it seems people usually reserve the word alcoholic for assholes. A person who drinks too much but doesn't hurt anyone is referred to as a drunk. Of course, that's just my take on it.

 

[anathelia]

But doesn't that just give the addict an excuse to continue hurting people? If someone really wants to change then they can. It's a matter of how bad you want it.

Yeah, I see your point but it seems people usually reserve the word alcoholic for assholes. A person who drinks too much but doesn't hurt anyone is referred to as a drunk. Of course, that's just my take on it.

It absolutely does not give them an excuse to continue hurting people. It makes everyone else who doesn't understand what it's like to be them and have to constantly deal with the cravings for the rest of their life. You don't just magically get cured. The cravings don't just magically go away because you say you're not going to do them anymore.

And of course alcoholic and addict have a negative connotation. That's what society has done...put a stigma and the worst possible definition of the word as the common definition. Plenty of people are going through it, and not all of them are abusive assholes.

I would advise you (a general you) to be open minded about the situation and not be so quick to judge people based on a label. Just my opinion.

 

[BornReady]

I would advise you (a general you) to be open minded about the situation and not be so quick to judge people based on a label. Just my opinion.

Yeah, open mindedness is always good. I just think my society (USA) goes too easy on alcoholics who hurt others. That's why we have so many more drunk drivers than Europe. My guess is we have more abusive husbands too but I don't know.

I don't feel sympathy for pedophiles who molest children. I don't care if someone is sexually attracted to children. They don't have to act on those urges if they don't want to. Same for alcoholics. They can control themselves if they want to bad enough. Maybe it's just a matter of getting to the point that they really want to change.

I'm talking generalities here. There are a few people who can not control themselves such as psychopaths. But they are the exception. Unfortunately there's really nothing to be done for them but to lock them up.

 

[Minor Axis]

What are your thoughts on this? I went every day for a week, once. My conclusion - its helpful if you're an alcoholic, but it's a brainwashing religious cult.

My Dad went to AA after his alcohol low point. I don't remember them drilling religion into his head other than there is mention of God/a higher power and acknowledging his help in the recovery process. While I'm not a God-guy, if it helps you to recover I'm ok with it.

 

[BornReady]

My Dad went to AA after his alcohol low point.

Sorry to hear about your dad. I'm curious, did he stop drinking for good? If so, did he credit the AA program for his recovery?

 

[The Doc]

Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't make it "gay" by any stretch of the imagination. AA/NA/HA/etc works for some people. If you feel that talking about your feelings doesn't work for you, that's fine. But you can't knock the people who it does help. And without some sort of cognitive behavioral therapy or some such, I don't think there's a "cure" for a chemical imbalance.

You're the type of person that is the reason people self medicate with alcohol and drugs. Because to you, and many many others, it's not socially or culturally acceptable for a man to ask for help. And that's a bull attitude.

In this context Gay does not mean homosexual. In this day and age among the younger crowd, Gay is used as an adjective. Its means displeasure or displease in certain things or activities. i.e

Kid 1 "My dad said i cant stay out past 9"
Kid 2 "Thats Gay"
Kid 1 " I know, i wish your dad would stop being gay"
kid 2 "Yeah, me too"

Also LOL im the reason why people self medicate. HAHA that is awesome.

I meant in terms of it not being a cure...anything involving actions people take on their own accord cannot be "cured." Regardless of the fact that it happens over a longer and more consistent time period does NOT change the fact that it is still only a treatment. You wrote "drug addictions and alcohol are cured by not doing them." While I get what you mean, this is not always the case. If you are a full blown alcoholic or meth addict or heroine addict, you cannot just wake up one morning and say "I'm not doing drugs today." You will get physically sick...it requires TREATMENT. Even after that treatment, there is no garrantee, and not even in your case of Teen Challenge.





For someone who went through this Teen Challenge...I find it a little ridiculous that you consider someone asking for help or talking about their "feelings" is sooooo "gay." First of all, didn't want to be that person who flips, but stop calling something you think is "silly" GAY. It is not HOMOSEXUAL or HAPPY to talk about your feelings...use the appropriate words.

In terms of dealing with your own problems, that is why people go to AA and NA...to help fix their problems. Show me someone who has never asked for help, and maybe I'll reconsider this notion.





Not even going to comment on this one because you obviously don't realize that "gay" should not be used in a derogatory way or simply thrown in with other words as you see fit.

I went over the a gay terminology up top. What your describing above about people getting physically sick when quitting certain substances is very true, though i dont see why it matters. Withdrawl is apart of quitting. Plenty of drug addicts get tossed in jail and go through withdrawl vomiting and having loose stools etc.. etc.. and are in pain for days. You think the police care? No. They go through withdrawl and get over it. Plenty of people have quit using hard drugs. When I was in teen challenge we had a couple heroin addicts. Yes they were vomiting and in withdrawl pain... but guess what. Eat, Shit, Shower, Sleep. Its going to go away within 2-3 days. Before any of this AA or NA bullshit people still recovered from addictions in their own ways. If you like looking like a pussy sitting in a circle with other pussies and throwing yourself a pitty party talking about how awful your life is without alcohol then go ahead and do it. Im not stopping you, but I am telling you it is gay.

 

[anathelia]

I'm aware of what the usage of the term is with "kids these days"...I'm only 23.

It doesn't make it appropriate.

And I said people like you. Because you, along with many others, act like it's a pussy thing to do to go ask for help.

 

[retro]

So Doc... admitting that you have a problem and asking for help with it makes you a pussy? Give me a break. It takes a real man to admit weakness and seek help. You're a sick, sick individual. Some people can't just pick themselves up off the floor and "get better".

You are right about one thing... before programs like this existed, people did "recover" from their addictions on their own... often times in the form of abusing their families or simply killing themselves. But hey, that's better than being a "pussy", right?

 

[Codrus]

So Doc... admitting that you have a problem and asking for help with it makes you a pussy? Give me a break. It takes a real man to admit weakness and seek help. You're a sick, sick individual. Some people can't just pick themselves up off the floor and "get better".

You are right about one thing... before programs like this existed, people did "recover" from their addictions on their own... often times in the form of abusing their families or simply killing themselves. But hey, that's better than being a "pussy", right?

*stands Up in front of everyone*

Hello,...my name is Codrus,...i have a problem,...I'm addicted to vagina...and i need help.
ever since i came out of one...ive been trying to get back into all of them, i think about it all the time.
when im not out attempting to score vagina, i sit around and think of ways to get it,stimulate and titillate it.
i have begged for vagina...i have borrowed vagina....and im ashamed to admit...i have stolen vagina.
i feel that im no longer in control,..vagina has ruined my life but i cant stop...i need help.....i feel like a pussy for being addicted to vagina....or i simply am what i eat.....so please pm me address's and phone number's ladies...your my only hope

 

[The Doc]

I'm aware of what the usage of the term is with "kids these days"...I'm only 23.

It doesn't make it appropriate.

And I said people like you. Because you, along with many others, act like it's a pussy thing to do to go ask for help.

No. You got me all wrong. its not a pussy thing to ask for help. Its a pussy thing to sit in a circle and share your feelings.

So Doc... admitting that you have a problem and asking for help with it makes you a pussy? Give me a break. It takes a real man to admit weakness and seek help. You're a sick, sick individual. Some people can't just pick themselves up off the floor and "get better".

You are right about one thing... before programs like this existed, people did "recover" from their addictions on their own... often times in the form of abusing their families or simply killing themselves. But hey, that's better than being a "pussy", right?

Restating from above... No your not a pussy by asking for help. Your a pussy when you sit in a circle and share your feelings. That is gay. Just because you dont goto AA doesnt mean your gonna commit suicide or abuse anyone. Lol Im a 'sick, sick' individual. Man, i swear you all here are something else:clap. If you think im sick then please dont ever goto Baltimore MD or join the Army lol. Normal guys dont like homo's or like talking about feelings. Thats some bitch shit. You know?

*stands Up in front of everyone*

Hello,...my name is Codrus,...i have a problem,...I'm addicted to vagina...and i need help.
ever since i came out of one...ive been trying to get back into all of them, i think about it all the time.
when im not out attempting to score vagina, i sit around and think of ways to get it,stimulate and titillate it.
i have begged for vagina...i have borrowed vagina....and im ashamed to admit...i have stolen vagina.
i feel that im no longer in control,..vagina has ruined my life but i cant stop...i need help.....i feel like a pussy for being addicted to vagina....or i simply am what i eat.....so please pm me address's and phone number's ladies...your my only hope

Haha thats great

 

[retro]

Restating from above... No your not a pussy by asking for help. Your a pussy when you sit in a circle and share your feelings. That is gay. Just because you dont goto AA doesnt mean your gonna commit suicide or abuse anyone. Lol Im a 'sick, sick' individual. Man, i swear you all here are something else:clap. If you think im sick then please dont ever goto Baltimore MD or join the Army lol. Normal guys dont like homo's or like talking about feelings. Thats some bitch shit. You know?

You're one sick sad man... you know that, right? You've bought into this bullshit machismo attitude where you just bottle everything up and don't talk about anything because you're afraid of being seen as, "gay". Are you that afraid of homosexuality that you've distanced yourself so far from humanity? I've got friends that were in the military, my best friend that was in the Air Force for 8 years; and we've always talked about our feelings. Does that make us gay? Hardly. It makes us real guys. Putting your irrational fears behind you is what makes someone an actual man... you're just a scared little kid.

I also never said that not going to AA makes people abusers or kill themselves... I said that the possibility exists.

I honestly feel sorry for you... you're really that afraid of being perceived as gay? It's more than a little pathetic.

 

[Dodge_Sniper]

What are your thoughts on this? I went every day for a week, once. My conclusion - its helpful if you're an alcoholic, but it's a brainwashing religious cult.

Well, that about sums up what I was gonna say. Good job, Pete.

 

[The Doc]

You're one sick sad man... you know that, right? You've bought into this bullshit machismo attitude where you just bottle everything up and don't talk about anything because you're afraid of being seen as, "gay". Are you that afraid of homosexuality that you've distanced yourself so far from humanity? I've got friends that were in the military, my best friend that was in the Air Force for 8 years; and we've always talked about our feelings. Does that make us gay? Hardly. It makes us real guys. Putting your irrational fears behind you is what makes someone an actual man... you're just a scared little kid.

I also never said that not going to AA makes people abusers or kill themselves... I said that the possibility exists.

I honestly feel sorry for you... you're really that afraid of being perceived as gay? It's more than a little pathetic.

I dont care about the fact your BROmancing with some air force fag. Re-read my posts. Its not gay to talk about your problems. It IS gay to sit in a circle and talk about your problems.

 

[Skorpy]

wow, that is some siggy you got there

 

[retro]

I dont care about the fact your BROmancing with some air force fag. Re-read my posts. Its not gay to talk about your problems. It IS gay to sit in a circle and talk about your problems.

You're pathetic, you know that? You equate things to being "gay" because you can't handle the fact that people don't fit into your own very limited world view. You claim to be what, catholic or something, right? Is it gay for people to gather around and talk about their problems and ask for prayer for them? Or is that okay because it fits in with your own particular religious beliefs. Forgive me if I've remembered incorrectly, but it seems like you've used that as an excuse for your own particular brand of homophobia.

Would it be okay for a group of guys and girls to talk about their problems together? Or does that just make them a bunch of dykes and gays?

You're a disgrace to the uniform you wear.

 

[The Doc]

wow, that is some siggy you got there

Thanks, im actually going to downgrade it

You're pathetic, you know that? You equate things to being "gay" because you can't handle the fact that people don't fit into your own very limited world view. You claim to be what, catholic or something, right? Is it gay for people to gather around and talk about their problems and ask for prayer for them? Or is that okay because it fits in with your own particular religious beliefs. Forgive me if I've remembered incorrectly, but it seems like you've used that as an excuse for your own particular brand of homophobia.

Would it be okay for a group of guys and girls to talk about their problems together? Or does that just make them a bunch of dykes and gays?

You're a disgrace to the uniform you wear.

I hate to break it to you but lots of people call things they dont like gay. Atleast around the places i have been, and in the Army also. Gay is a word. If my roomate is acting emotional I will tell him to stop being Gay, If i get emotional or start complaining about something stupid he will call me gay.Him nor I are gay. Its just a general word we use for things or behaviours we dont like... i.e "We got a 12 Mile ruck tommorow for PT, its gonna be gay". There is nothing homosexual about marching 12 miles with 40 lbs on gear and a 60 pound ruck, but because we know it will not be pleasurable we call it Gay. Understand?

Yes I am catholic. Yes i think its Gay if you sit in a group full of people and talk about your personal problems, thats called being an attention whore, which is Gay. If somethings wrong go tell a friend, family member, chaplain, pastor, teacher, etc... but talking about your problems to a bunch of people is just a self thrown pitty party. As a man I expect you to have some dignity then to cry and whine about bullshit for everyone to hear.

Girls can sit in circles and talk about problems, bitch, and complain all day fucking long. But as a Man i expect you to uphold some level of independence, confidence, and dignity to tackle problems on your own and not be an attenwhore.

Im a disgrace to the uniform I wear? Sure. Whatever you say buddy.

 

[Darrell]

I'm just curious where you get off calling Airmen fags? Many of us Air Force fags were on the ground fighting next to your guys when YOU were still asking your Mom and Pops for lunch money. Show a little respect, and you will get a little respect. I'm not going to say you're a disgrace to the uniform, but seeing as I wore it longer than you, I can say that you're bringing discredit to yourself, and the United States military.