Alcoholics Anonymous

[cam elle toe]

i think its gay to call things gay.

 

[The Doc]

I'm just curious where you get off calling Airmen fags? Many of us Air Force fags were on the ground fighting next to your guys when YOU were still asking your Mom and Pops for lunch money. Show a little respect, and you will get a little respect. I'm not going to say you're a disgrace to the uniform, but seeing as I wore it longer than you, I can say that you're bringing discredit to yourself, and the United States military.

Sorry to break it to you, but as a branch most soldiers in the US Army consider Airmen as Fag's, just as Airmen consider everyone in the Army Retards. Inter-Branch Rivalry type things. Im trying to figure this out Darrell. Please explain it to me. As a former soldier, and being a combat arms soldier would you ever even consider sitting down with your platoon and talking about your personal problems? Do you know how incredibly weak you look? No one wants to be the soldier of an NCO that is weak, nor does an NCO want a soldier under him to be that weak. My whole life, even in elemtary school the kid who told the teachers or guidance counselors about their problems were made fun of. There must have been some drastic masculinity changes in this country the year i fought in Afghanistan.

 

[Darrell]

Sorry to break it to you, but as a branch most soldiers in the US Army consider Airmen as Fag's, just as Airmen consider everyone in the Army Retards. Inter-Branch Rivalry type things. Im trying to figure this out Darrell. Please explain it to me. As a former soldier, and being a combat arms soldier would you ever even consider sitting down with your platoon and talking about your personal problems? Do you know how incredibly weak you look? No one wants to be the soldier of an NCO that is weak, nor does an NCO want a soldier under him to be that weak. My whole life, even in elemtary school the kid who told the teachers or guidance counselors about their problems were made fun of. There must have been some drastic masculinity changes in this country the year i fought in Afghanistan.

I would not sit in a circle and talk to people about my feelings, however I would not look down on anyone who does. It's not my place to decide what works best for people, and what doesn't. People can think you're weak, but it is your actions in the face of certain danger which defines your character, not how you let go of steam. You know?

 

[The Doc]

I would not sit in a circle and talk to people about my feelings, however I would not look down on anyone who does. It's not my place to decide what works best for people, and what doesn't. People can think you're weak, but it is your actions in the face of certain danger which defines your character, not how you let go of steam. You know?

I guess i understand the point of view on it. I wouldent want to fight next to a guy or befriend a man who does something like that. We all have our own issues, Worrying about wives and girlfriends cheating on us when we are gone, hoping our families are stable, and on top of that going on missions/patrols and whatnot. We dont have time to sit together in a circle to hear one guys problems. Not only do you need physically strong soldiers, but mentally strong soldiers who are resilient and can re-cooperate and recover from loss, death of a buddy, girlfriend/wife leaving etc... You need to learn how to handle things yourselvs. I guess it is good to talk about things to a buddy or two, but in front of a whole group...... that just sounds weak to me, a yearn for attention.

All I am saying is, I wouldent want my battle buddy to be the guy crying about his problems to everyone, because we all have our own to worry about, and dont need his issues on top. Everyone carries a heavy ruck sack, but the guy who just cant make it up the mountain will have to take his off and we will have to carry his gear making our loads even heavier. You understand?

 

[retro]

I hate to break it to you but lots of people call things they dont like gay. Atleast around the places i have been, and in the Army also. Gay is a word. If my roomate is acting emotional I will tell him to stop being Gay, If i get emotional or start complaining about something stupid he will call me gay.Him nor I are gay. Its just a general word we use for things or behaviours we dont like... i.e "We got a 12 Mile ruck tommorow for PT, its gonna be gay". There is nothing homosexual about marching 12 miles with 40 lbs on gear and a 60 pound ruck, but because we know it will not be pleasurable we call it Gay. Understand?

I know perfectly well about the usage of "gay" in that context... it doesn't change the fact that it's still fairly insensitive. However, you're taking it far beyond that usage, and you know it.

Yes I am catholic. Yes i think its Gay if you sit in a group full of people and talk about your personal problems, thats called being an attention whore, which is Gay. If somethings wrong go tell a friend, family member, chaplain, pastor, teacher, etc... but talking about your problems to a bunch of people is just a self thrown pitty party. As a man I expect you to have some dignity then to cry and whine about bullshit for everyone to hear.

Proving my point exactly about your usage of the word gay. There's also a distinct difference between whining or complaining about personal problems, and talking about them. It's a shame that you can't understand subtleties, because it would probably serve you well in your life. You can be a man while still being open and honest about your feelings. I'll show you.

My feelings are that you're a disgrace to the country that you serve and the uniform that you wear.

See, I expressed my feelings while still maintaining my identity as a man. That was obviously a very sarcastic example, but maybe you get the point. Here's the difference between the two of us... I'm perfectly capable of being a man and talking about how I feel. I'm not afraid of being thought of as, "gay". I'm secure enough in my manhood to feel that way, to know who I am and not worry about what the rest of the world thinks. Maybe someday you'll feel the same way about yourself.

Girls can sit in circles and talk about problems, bitch, and complain all day fucking long. But as a Man i expect you to uphold some level of independence, confidence, and dignity to tackle problems on your own and not be an attenwhore.

That's not what I said... I asked if men and women can talk about their issues in a group together. Is that acceptable? Or would that just make them a group of gay guys and women? Expressing your feelings about what's going on in your life doesn't make you an attention whore either, it makes you a real person. Bottling things up and never dealing with anything makes people very bitter and very much alone. I know all about that... and I feel like more of a man now that I've learned to have a handle on my emotions and realized that they're not a bad or weak thing than I ever did previously. Again, maybe as you get older and gain some maturity, you'll realize the same thing.

Im a disgrace to the uniform I wear? Sure. Whatever you say buddy.

Yes, you are a disgrace. It's a shame that you can't see it. You have a prejudice against homosexuals, and a fear of being seen as one. Like I said though, maybe age and maturity will make you realize that.

 

[retro]

I guess i understand the point of view on it. I wouldent want to fight next to a guy or befriend a man who does something like that. We all have our own issues, Worrying about wives and girlfriends cheating on us when we are gone, hoping our families are stable, and on top of that going on missions/patrols and whatnot. We dont have time to sit together in a circle to hear one guys problems. Not only do you need physically strong soldiers, but mentally strong soldiers who are resilient and can re-cooperate and recover from loss, death of a buddy, girlfriend/wife leaving etc... You need to learn how to handle things yourselvs. I guess it is good to talk about things to a buddy or two, but in front of a whole group...... that just sounds weak to me, a yearn for attention.

All I am saying is, I wouldent want my battle buddy to be the guy crying about his problems to everyone, because we all have our own to worry about, and dont need his issues on top. Everyone carries a heavy ruck sack, but the guy who just cant make it up the mountain will have to take his off and we will have to carry his gear making our loads even heavier. You understand?

Jesus Christ... can you not understand the distinction between being open about your feelings, and whining and bitching about every little thing in your life to everyone. We're talking about a group where people all come together for the same reason, or can you not understand that either. You fear what you don't understand, and so you attempt to make it into something to disdain... homosexuals, expressing your feelings, or anything else it seems like.

Let go of your fear and you might be able to lead a fulfilling life.

 

[retro]

There must have been some drastic masculinity changes in this country the year i fought in Afghanistan.

More like social enlightenment... the world is changing without you. Get with the times or get left behind. Masculinity shouldn't be defined by fear.

 

[The Doc]

I know perfectly well about the usage of "gay" in that context... it doesn't change the fact that it's still fairly insensitive. However, you're taking it far beyond that usage, and you know it.



Proving my point exactly about your usage of the word gay. There's also a distinct difference between whining or complaining about personal problems, and talking about them. It's a shame that you can't understand subtleties, because it would probably serve you well in your life. You can be a man while still being open and honest about your feelings. I'll show you.

My feelings are that you're a disgrace to the country that you serve and the uniform that you wear.

See, I expressed my feelings while still maintaining my identity as a man. That was obviously a very sarcastic example, but maybe you get the point. Here's the difference between the two of us... I'm perfectly capable of being a man and talking about how I feel. I'm not afraid of being thought of as, "gay". I'm secure enough in my manhood to feel that way, to know who I am and not worry about what the rest of the world thinks. Maybe someday you'll feel the same way about yourself.



That's not what I said... I asked if men and women can talk about their issues in a group together. Is that acceptable? Or would that just make them a group of gay guys and women? Expressing your feelings about what's going on in your life doesn't make you an attention whore either, it makes you a real person. Bottling things up and never dealing with anything makes people very bitter and very much alone. I know all about that... and I feel like more of a man now that I've learned to have a handle on my emotions and realized that they're not a bad or weak thing than I ever did previously. Again, maybe as you get older and gain some maturity, you'll realize the same thing.



Yes, you are a disgrace. It's a shame that you can't see it. You have a prejudice against homosexuals, and a fear of being seen as one. Like I said though, maybe age and maturity will make you realize that.

Im a disgrace to the uniform because im prejudiced against homosexuals..... Well then dont ever put on a uniform because you will be shocked that most soldiers have the same feelings toward homosexuality that I do. Well, i cant speak for POG's... but like i have said over and over... In a platoon of combat arms soldiers (Infantry,Cavalry, Armor, Artillary) Its all male. Heres an excert from an article by USA News

Unlike workers who return home at night, military personnel must accept living conditions that involve "forced intimacy," with little or no privacy. This would be tantamount to forcing female soldiers to share private quarters with men—a situation that would be unacceptable to the majority of military women even if misconduct never occurred. Stated in gender-neutral terms, the new law would require military persons to accept exposure to persons who may be sexually attracted to them.

In the 2008 Military Times Poll, 58 percent of 2,000 active-duty subscribers said they opposed repeal of DADT—for the fourth year in a row. Responses to a new survey question found that if Congress repealed the 1993 law, almost 10 percent would not re-enlist, and an additional 14 percent would consider ending their careers. Many first-termers normally leave, but the loss of even a few thousand careerists in communities, grades, and skills that are not quickly or easily replaceable would come at a crippling cost—especially when we are at war and trying to grow the Army and Marine Corps.

A distinguished group of retired flag and general officers recently delivered to Obama and Congress a statement supporting the 1993 law, signed by more than 1,000 retired officers, including 51 of four-star rank. Noting that it "protect good order, discipline, and morale in the unique environment of the military," the officers wrote, "As a matter of national security, we urge you to support the 1993 law regarding homosexuals in the military, and to oppose any legislative, judicial, or administrative effort to repeal or invalidate the law

Im really not trying to make this a homosexuality argument though, so lets end that segment at this. Also, I have now explained how i feel about sitting in circles and talking about feelings.

But i still leave the debatable point that most people in AA have to stay there for...life..... versus certain programs where you detox and get the skills and education needed to not ever return and lead a successful life.

 

[Minor Axis]

Sorry to hear about your dad. I'm curious, did he stop drinking for good? If so, did he credit the AA program for his recovery?

Thanks for the thought. He's been on the wagon for 20 years (currently) and he credits AA with giving him the structure to succeed. Then he quit smoking after 50 years. Then he switched from being a die hard, life long, Republican Party to being an Independent. Yes, shocking.

Btw, I also credit my Mom with tossing him out of the house to begin with. Enablers don't help people find their personal bottom. This is how it is for all addictions. Most people who are carried will not find the will to fix themselves and they can't be talked out of it. They must feel the personal need to change their situation. Yes, some don't make it.

 

[Panacea]

Thanks for the thought. He's been on the wagon for 20 years (currently) and he credits AA with giving him the structure to succeed. Then he quit smoking after 50 years. Then he switched from being a die hard, life long, Republican Party to being an Independent. Yes, shocking.

Btw, I also credit my Mom with tossing him out of the house to begin with. Enablers don't help people find their personal bottom. This is how it is for all addictions. Most people who are carried will not find the will to fix themselves and they can't be talked out of it. They must feel the personal need to change their situation. Yes, some don't make it.

It definitely would have taken a lot longer if she had kept giving him an excuse, it's a tough but good choice.

 

[BornReady]

Then he switched from being a die hard, life long, Republican Party to being an Independent. Yes, shocking.

It is unusual for someone over forty or so to change political views. Although the Republican party has changed so much in recent years. It may be the party that changed and not him.

I also credit my Mom with tossing him out of the house to begin with. Enablers don't help people find their personal bottom.

There's a lot to be said for tough love.

 

[MjaneGibson]

I hate to break it to you but lots of people call things they dont like gay. Atleast around the places i have been, and in the Army also.

well...I don't like you very much...so, you're so gay.

as for using the army as your stable reference here...that's a joke. Oh, and...you're gay...cause I don't like you... :nod:

 

[MjaneGibson]

Jesus Christ... can you not understand the distinction between being open about your feelings, and whining and bitching about every little thing in your life to everyone. We're talking about a group where people all come together for the same reason, or can you not understand that either. You fear what you don't understand, and so you attempt to make it into something to disdain... homosexuals, expressing your feelings, or anything else it seems like.

Let go of your fear and you might be able to lead a fulfilling life.

He cannot understand this because he doesn't understand the concept of what a conversation is...

I guess, to him, having a political meeting where feelings about certain topics is soooo "gay." Oh, and getting together to talk about your feelings on that movie someone just saw is sooooooo "gay."

What's sillier is that he is a homophobic silly pants who thinks that the appropriate word to use for something that he doesn't like is gay...why do homophobs love talking about things that are so gay? Stop talking about gay things...you stupid heterosexual.

 

[The Doc]

well...I don't like you very much...so, you're so gay.

as for using the army as your stable reference here...that's a joke. Oh, and...you're gay...cause I don't like you... :nod:

Thats a valid use of the word actually. I really do hate to use the Army, so im not going to speak for the Army as a whole but atleast for the guys 18-30 in my squadron thats how most of us use the word and talk, now if i used the word in that context growing up in Maryland, and I am the only one from Maryland in my squadron...logical reasoning would tell me its used commonly elsewhere also.

I also love how when you all get desperate you name call. Its pretty funny. You all call me juvinile and childish but i have yet to reach that level..lol but to each his own i do not want to take away from this AA debate

 

[MjaneGibson]

But i still leave the debatable point that most people in AA have to stay there for...life..... versus certain programs where you detox and get the skills and education needed to not ever return and lead a successful life.

Are you that naive that you don't understand that people drink and do drugs, a lot of the time because THEY NEED SOME FUCKING HELP?! I'm sorry, but you're really starting to piss me off. It's like you don't fucking get how the damn mind works. You can fucking detox and whatever the fuck else you think the solution is...but if you're fucking BRAIN is FUCKED UP, then you NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT TO FUCKING FIX IT.

GOD DAMN!!!!

 

[All Else Failed]

I'm going to start volunteering at AA meetings as part of my masters program, actually.

 

[Peter Parka]

I'm going to start volunteering at AA meetings as part of my masters program, actually.

??? AA is just a bunch of alcoholics meeting up to help each other, they don't require volunteers.

 

[darkcgi]

its bulshit just keeps you reminded of why you want to drink

best thing to do is forget that you drink or ever did drink to much and start new
dont keep reminding and dwelling

let it go

 

[MjaneGibson]

Sorry...I shouldn't have let him get me that annoyed. I am just so fed up with people who are close minded. But again, apologies.

 

[Joe the meek]

Sorry to break it to you, but as a branch most soldiers in the US Army consider Airmen as Fag's, just as Airmen consider everyone in the Army Retards. Inter-Branch Rivalry type things. Im trying to figure this out Darrell. Please explain it to me. As a former soldier, and being a combat arms soldier would you ever even consider sitting down with your platoon and talking about your personal problems? Do you know how incredibly weak you look? No one wants to be the soldier of an NCO that is weak, nor does an NCO want a soldier under him to be that weak. My whole life, even in elemtary school the kid who told the teachers or guidance counselors about their problems were made fun of. There must have been some drastic masculinity changes in this country the year i fought in Afghanistan.

I know where you're coming from.

It's not when you're in that the problems can escalate (they can, but could easily be hidden due to the social structure), but when you're out in the civilian world, particularly with PTSD.

I use to think that civilians were gay pussies. Kicker is, it's probably harder trying to make it as a civilian. I find it amazing sometimes the E-7's I see living in single wides living off their pension.