Alcoholics Anonymous

[CityGirl]

Re: Alcoholiocs Anonymous

I would find it kind of arrogant to believe that I am a higher power, in some way. It seems to me like this is a subtle way to try and brainwash you into believing in a god without any factual evidence.

But, if you take a biological viewpoint, humans have a neocortex...that part of the brain that sits above the brain stem and the cerebellum which are the primal brain centers. The neocortex is responsible for our cognitive abilities (higher power, if you will).

There is a lot of alcoholism in my family and I've not seen a lot of success with 12 step programs. Some family members have left meetings and went straight to the bar saying the meeting created such a thirst in them. Rational Recovery is a program that has been more successful in my family. It is not a disease based model and does not rely on a higher power in the spiritual sense but a higher power in the biological sense as mentioned above. The detraction to some re: Rational Recovery is that Jack Trimpey, who developed the program, has been very critical of AA.

 

[Pet Sounds]

Re: Alcoholiocs Anonymous

That's what I've heard. I watched a Penn & Teller BS on AA. Penn said there are secular programs that are just as effective. So if you're religious AA is probably a good fit. If not then pick a different program.

I'll take what the American Psychatric and Psychological Association's opinions over a magician's.

 

[Pet Sounds]

Re: Alcoholiocs Anonymous

But, if you take a biological viewpoint, humans have a neocortex...that part of the brain that sits above the brain stem and the cerebellum which are the primal brain centers. The neocortex is responsible for our cognitive abilities (higher power, if you will).

There is a lot of alcoholism in my family and I've not seen a lot of success with 12 step programs. Some family members have left meetings and went straight to the bar saying the meeting created such a thirst in them. Rational Recovery is a program that has been more successful in my family. It is not a disease based model and does not rely on a higher power in the spiritual sense but a higher power in the biological sense as mentioned above. The detraction to some re: Rational Recovery is that Jack Trimpey, who developed the program, has been very critical of AA.

You don't see a lot of success for people with drug problems period. But these programs have proven efficacy in studies and are often recommended by professionals like the APA.

 

[Pet Sounds]

Re: Alcoholiocs Anonymous

Ok i change my stance that is the definition of a religious zealot. I understand why my uncle joined a Baptist church now... It didn't work but I understand. :24: No one is powerless. To be powerless just shows a weak mind state.

It is a physiological process you idiot. It's like saying because my digestive system can't handle spicy foods that I have a weak mind. It is a pathological condition recognized by medical professionals and deserves proper treatment.

 

[Alexis]

Re: Alcoholiocs Anonymous

I disagree...I think people are absolutely powerless against addictions.

I agree with this. There are a few who fall into this category. I don't understand it, but it's certainly true. Some people need help.

 

[Pet Sounds]

Re: Alcoholiocs Anonymous

I agree with this. There are a few who fall into this category. I don't understand it, but it's certainly true. Some people need help.

Mental illness like depression and addiction are real health problems, and most people need help with them. From professionals. We probably can't understand a lot of what people are going through with most health problems. Because we don't feel the way they do.

The "just man up" mentality is stupid.

 

[Zorak]

If I was an alcy, and really needed help, I'd accept God if that's what they wanted.

Who knows, maybe I'll get lucky and when I die from complications of a liver transplant there will in fact turn out to be a God and he is Christian too.

 

[BornReady]

Re: Alcoholiocs Anonymous

I'll take what the American Psychatric and Psychological Association's opinions over a magician's.

So does this association say secular programs are not as effective as AA?

 

[Panacea]

Re: Alcoholiocs Anonymous

So does this association say secular programs are not as effective as AA?

It is my understanding the general consensus of the APA is that spirituality is a vital part of the therapeutic process. I believe it is admitted that no one program fits all clients, but the holistic approach supported by the APA includes spirituality, and would in programs as well as individual therapy.

 

[Alexis]

Re: Alcoholiocs Anonymous

Mental illness like depression and addiction are real health problems, and most people need help with them. From professionals. We probably can't understand a lot of what people are going through with most health problems. Because we don't feel the way they do.

The "just man up" mentality is stupid.

You just don't know how much they need help when you see someone going thur DT"s Believe me, they are going thru sheer HELL. They really need someone's help.

 

[Natasha]

Re: Alcoholiocs Anonymous

You just don't know how much they need help when you see someone going thur DT"s Believe me, they are going thru sheer HELL. They really need someone's help.

Absolutely, they do!!! Delirium tremens are a serious medical condition and can be fatal. They require immediate medical attention.

 

[Panacea]

I always found it strange that weaning off alcohol is more dangerous than weaning off heroin...

 

[Natasha]

I always found it strange that weaning off alcohol is more dangerous than weaning off heroin...

Or how about how methadone is used to help people come off of heroin but is in itself a highly dangerous and addictive drug??? LOL

 

[Alexis]

Re: Alcoholiocs Anonymous

Absolutely, they do!!! Delirium tremens are a serious medical condition and can be fatal. They require immediate medical attention.

I've dealt with this and I know. The best advice is this: They are confused and don't know what is happening to them. You need to tell them what they are going thru. If they are not with someone who knows, then they need to go to a Hospital. IF they are at home, they need to eat as much as possible, since that is part of the problem. THey will need vitamins as much as needed. They have been drinking and not taking care of the body as far as nutrients. Someone who goes thru this has no appetite, but needs to force themselves to eat. If you eat, then you will get over the DT's faster. This is a difficult phase.

 

[BornReady]

Re: Alcoholiocs Anonymous

It is my understanding the general consensus of the APA is that spirituality is a vital part of the therapeutic process. I believe it is admitted that no one program fits all clients, but the holistic approach supported by the APA includes spirituality, and would in programs as well as individual therapy.

Interesting. So Penn & Teller may be guilty of some BS themselves. Either that or I'm remembering wrong.

 

[Skorpy]

I wish my brother did something to help him. He died of alcohol 9 years ago. My other brother is on his way out aswell, if he don't stop. But I know he won't. So I am waiting for the bad day to come.

 

[Natasha]

Re: Alcoholiocs Anonymous

I've dealt with this and I know. The best advice is this: They are confused and don't know what is happening to them. You need to tell them what they are going thru. If they are not with someone who knows, then they need to go to a Hospital. IF they are at home, they need to eat as much as possible, since that is part of the problem. THey will need vitamins as much as needed. They have been drinking and not taking care of the body as far as nutrients. Someone who goes thru this has no appetite, but needs to force themselves to eat. If you eat, then you will get over the DT's faster. This is a difficult phase.

The biggest problem is seizures which can occur due to withdrawals. That and the problem that people at a residence may not recognize DTs for what they are and may ignore the signs. In the ERs they have what they call a "banana bag" and it replenishes those vitamins that are needed by people going through DTs.

 

[Alexis]

Re: Alcoholiocs Anonymous

The biggest problem is seizures which can occur due to withdrawals. That and the problem that people at a residence may not recognize DTs for what they are and may ignore the signs. In the ERs they have what they call a "banana bag" and it replenishes those vitamins that are needed by people going through DTs.

This is quite true and it's good that you brought it up. Having seizures are a major part of going thru DT's. Some people don't take alcohol seriously, but it can be for some people, a very dangerous drug. Some people who are chronically addicted may have other symptoms such as incontinence of both the bowels and bladder. This is truly a serious illness.

 

[Panacea]

Re: Alcoholiocs Anonymous

Interesting. So Penn & Teller may be guilty of some BS themselves. Either that or I'm remembering wrong.

I haven't seen what they said, so hopefully I am not misleading. As a person going through a Masters program in therapy, I keep finding a LOT of inconsiderate views regarding differences of religious opinion. The text books are Christian oriented, the recovery community is widely Christian...

Obviously this reflects the population, to some degree, but their attempts to diversify the field and be considerate of cultural/religious differences have been pretty pathetic imo.

 

[Panacea]

Or how about how methadone is used to help people come off of heroin but is in itself a highly dangerous and addictive drug??? LOL

Heh no kidding!! When one of our clients says "Um, I really think I can kick this with methodone" we kind of make a snarky face...it just doesn't make any sense.