I was referring to the thing you said about rhetoric, but I'll bite. I agree, capitalism is the best economic system. Although, pure laszie faire capitalism is horrible in my opinion. Personally, I think a degree of socialism is needed in every capitalistic society to take care of the unemployed, disabled and a couple other groups I can't think of right now. I think the amount Dems want is too much, but the amount Reps don't want is too little. The US's social programs need a massive reworking that I think neither Obama or McCain will do.
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin chosen as McCain's running mate
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I was referring to the thing you said about rhetoric, but I'll bite. I agree, capitalism is the best economic system. Although, pure laszie faire capitalism is horrible in my opinion. Personally, I think a degree of socialism is needed in every capitalistic society to take care of the unemployed, disabled and a couple other groups I can't think of right now. I think the amount Dems want is too much, but the amount Reps don't want is too little. The US's social programs need a massive reworking that I think neither Obama or McCain will do.
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Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
I don't consider social programs to be socialism but I agree with your sentiment. :thumbup
Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
Fox Mulder
Active Member
I also agree with his sentiment. I also agree that "certain" social programs are not socialism. I think you'd find very few people that believe we should have no "social safety net" -- the problem comes when a safety net is transformed into a "wealth re-distribution plan" to provide cradle to grave care.
A perfect example of this is the call for national healthcare. People spend 3 times as much on entertainment as it would cost for a health insurance plan. People "choose" not to have healthcare. And the poor who can't afford it have a free program. While I believe reform is needed--a national healthcare program is a large step towards socialism.
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
We all ready have the basis for that, it's called Medicare. Universal Health Care would simply make the eligible group larger. And there is really no excuse we have the highest medical costs of any country on the planet.
Fox Mulder
Active Member
No--absolutely wrong. In the first place--Medicare is NOT government run healthcare, government is simply another payor just like an insurance company. Second, people had money taken out of their taxes and earmarked for both retirement and for medical care all their lives while working so they've already paid for health insurance for their retirement years (and I might had they were robbed because most people that worked all their lives paid far more in than what they'll ever get out to suppor the social welfare program instituted by Democrats).
Listen--why don't we just have universal housing, universal clothing, and universal food programs? Are you seriously trying to tell me that healthcare is a bigger necessity than food, clothing, and shelter? :confused Its a HUGE step towards communism -- the idea that people's basic needs will be taken care of by the government and its a STUPID idea that's failed countless times in history yet people keep believing for reason I am totally miffed at that the US government can somehow make this concept work when its never worked before.
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
I see Universal Health Care applied like a Medicare. I don't see government clinics... not that I've been consulted by those who want to institute it. I see no reason why it could not be applied in that manner. Mulder, would you view UHC any differently if it was administered that way?
BTW, recently my wife cut her foot at the beach. We went into a local clinic for a tetnus shot. Guess how much the bill was? $230. The Dr takes 20 seconds to look at the wound, fills the syringe and administers the shot. My insurance paid most of it. Is there anyone here think this amount is reasonable?
BTW, recently my wife cut her foot at the beach. We went into a local clinic for a tetnus shot. Guess how much the bill was? $230. The Dr takes 20 seconds to look at the wound, fills the syringe and administers the shot. My insurance paid most of it. Is there anyone here think this amount is reasonable?
Fox Mulder
Active Member
Its reasonable because the doctor has to pay about $300,000 to go to college and medical school (and that's a small estimate) and his/her malpratice insurance is huge--then they have the cost of the employees. He/she is going to make money on that visit, but lose on another visit.
You can easily pay $230 to go to a ballgame or a show but you won't pay that for healthcare. Its people's attitudes that are the problem. They'll pay much more for entertainment but don't want to pay for healthcare.
And your employer paid for most of it anyway, so what's your gripe?
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
It's absolutely not worth the effort to explain it to you.
Lots of questions about the experience level of McCain's VP pick. Apparently she's been out of the country one time in her life. Excellent background for a VP.
Just read this, Palin once belonged to the Alaska Independence Party. Read the article for more info.
The Alaska Independence Party, By Steve Benen - CBS News
How does this fit into McCain's idea of "country first"?
The Alaska Independence Party, By Steve Benen - CBS News
How does this fit into McCain's idea of "country first"?
Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
I think you will find she never was a member but did speak at one of their meetings.
has anybody actually looked at the AIP platform?
not as radical as it is made out to be.
has anybody actually looked at the AIP platform?
not as radical as it is made out to be.
lumpenstein
Active Member
I've always wanted to know how much healthcare insurance costs in the states. How much does it cost a month for - let's say - a family of four?
That would depend on who you get it from. My dad has his through work and hardly pays anything for it.
Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
I pay for my employees so I know what it costs.
even the $900 for a family HMO thru Blue Cross is not a freebie to the employee. they have copay and maximum out of pocket is $750 after
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
It's been reported the Palin supports and promotes abstinence only sex education. That was a winner in her home. Another case where the Republicans need to get real. 
Peter Parka
Well-Known Member
It's been reported the Palin supports and promotes abstinence only sex education. That was a winner in her home. Another case where the Republicans need to get real.
Haha! Worked with her daughter then!
:surrender
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
If you look at the situation, the Republican Party is publicly lauding the pick of Palin as VP, but I wonder what's being said behind the scenes? If McCain had not picked her, I don't see any prominent Republican being excited about her as second in command of their GOP or the Country. But they are stuck with her now so they are going with it and talking her up, as if they say she is a GREAT leader, the country will believe it. That's what we've had in some form or another for the last 8 years, a Party who thinks if they say it, all the gullible morons will believe it.
It has brought up questions about McCain's judgement. Why? Because voters prefer voting for someone that they know, someone who has some level of National presence. People are excited about Obama, McCain, and Biden, because they know who they are and know what they stand for, and know they can lead. Who the heck is Palin, why was she picked, what does she bring to this Presidential race? It appears to be another the-end-justifies-the-means move. Instead of picking someone who is known for great leadership abilities, pick someone only because she is a "living" young Republican woman because it is thought she will appeal to some group of voters? What happened to the leadership bar, in emergencies, lower the bar?
BTW, at this point I don't know enough about Palin to render a judgement about her personal qualities and leadership abilities other than she is HOT! Her experience, if it qualifies her to be the leader of the nation is questionable imo.
It has brought up questions about McCain's judgement. Why? Because voters prefer voting for someone that they know, someone who has some level of National presence. People are excited about Obama, McCain, and Biden, because they know who they are and know what they stand for, and know they can lead. Who the heck is Palin, why was she picked, what does she bring to this Presidential race? It appears to be another the-end-justifies-the-means move. Instead of picking someone who is known for great leadership abilities, pick someone only because she is a "living" young Republican woman because it is thought she will appeal to some group of voters? What happened to the leadership bar, in emergencies, lower the bar?
BTW, at this point I don't know enough about Palin to render a judgement about her personal qualities and leadership abilities other than she is HOT!
Her experience, if it qualifies her to be the leader of the nation is questionable imo.
Are you talking monthly rates here?
I just got a quote for health care in my area for a family of 4 and it ranges from $500/month to $900/month for full coverage. This is with the basic $20 copay office visit, $1000 deductible for the year, PPO network doctors and no dental or vision.
I can guarantee you that I don't spend even a quarter of that in entertainment... I am very thankful that my work covers me 100% because I wouldn't be able to afford those rates. The best I could hope for is catastrophic coverage while paying for everything else out of pocket.
If you look at the situation, the Republican Party is publicly lauding the pick of Palin as VP, but I wonder what's being said behind the scenes? If McCain had not picked her, I don't see any prominent Republican being excited about her as second in command of their GOP or the Country. But they are stuck with her now so they are going with it and talking her up, as if they say she is a GREAT leader, the country will believe it. That's what we've had in some form or another for the last 8 years, a Party who thinks if they say it, all the gullible morons will believe it. It has brought up questions about McCain's judgement.
BTW, at this point I don't know enough about Palin to render a judgement about her personal qualities and leadership abilities other than she is HOT!
I will bet anyone 5,000 tokenz that Palin will NOT be on the ticket come November. She will drop out long before that, possibly today.
Any takers?
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