Abortion... Your thoughts on why, why not.

[Tim]

I am pro-life, but this is honestly one of the weakest possible arguments for a pro-choice person to take. The fact of the matter is that situation is EXTREMELY unlikely. The number of pregnancies as a result of rape in cases of abortion is very, very low. I feel that if someone was raped, that it is a little more respectable to choose abortion. It becomes even less of an effective argument if you believe in the morning after pill, in which case it offers a chance to prevent the likelyhood of having a child even more.

In the US about 1% of abortions are done because of rape or incest.
1.4 million abortions are performed in the US each year.

That's 14,000/yr as a result of rape or incest.... Doesn't sound EXTREMELY unlikely to me.



Since you are pro-life, let me ask you a question. What is your solution? Adoption, forced abstinence, ???

 

[Hans]

You added in incest. Incest is 100% avoidable, as it is not rape. I feel that is not a justification at all. Also, about 1% is not 1%. When someone says "about" 1%, it is very likely less than 1%. Ontop of the fact you merged the two together, I highly doubt it is 14,000/yr. Even still, I believe that 14,000 versus 1,400,000 is still pretty rare, despite the fact it is not even 14,000.

My solution is personal responsibility. Essentially most of the time a mistake is made in the heat of passion. Keyword being mistake. You fucked up. With the mistake made, the woman then takes the next step of deciding if her unborn mistake should live or die. In my opinion, the logic of a child not being a "child" until it comes out of the womb is simply ridiculous. That means that even a day before a child is given birth from a mother who intends on keeping the child that it is still not a "living human". I just cannot comprehend how people can swallow that as sound logic.

Anyways, without getting sidetracked I suppose my comparison should be that if you got pregnant, you made a mistake and should have to deal with the consequences. Unfortunately, the woman can choose otherwise. Now, someone was drinking and in the heat of the moment he drove home and gets in an accident where no one actually dies. Irrefutably, mistakes are made on boths side in the heat of the moment. Yet, there is no punishment for one of them, while the other is sitting in jail. I could continue to make many similar comparisons, but that would be redundant.

 

[Haus]

To want an abortion because you were raped but also married could be a little risky considering it could be the husbands

and that goes for all rape victims who are sexual active at the time of the rape. its a chance to take.

but I can not put my self in a rape victims head cause I have not experienced something like that so I cant say how she would feel if she was in that spot

 

[hart]

Er I don't think you answered Tim's question. He specifically was referring to rape/incest victims and your solution.

 

[Hans]

I feel that I answered it sufficently. The solution is not have an abortion at all. The given outcomes suggested that he was inquiring to how to deal with abortion in general, and I am pro-life, so the choice for me is quite obvious.

Out of the suggested outcomes, the only applicable place this would effect is America. Forced abstinenceis a silly idea.
Adoption is a very good option. I can think of very few people who are mentlly healthy who would prefer to have never been born than go through some tough times. Obviously adoption could end up being problematic for a number of reasons in this nation, which is a concern. However, given the choice of a tough life versus no life at all, I do not feel that is a choice for most people. It is logical that most people choose life over not life.

In cases of rape, I feel that an exception may be made, but it IS a rarity. My opinion is that people should take responsibility for their mistakes. Being raped is not a mistake, but one should not dodge the bullet due to convenience.

EDIT: Incest does not infer rape. How is someone who has consensual sex raped? I do not believe that these two should be grouped together.

 

[hart]

EDIT: Incest does not infer rape. How is someone who has consensual sex raped? I do not believe that these two should be grouped together.

HANS, I must admit you bring out strong emotion in me. From having the Avatar of my favorite tv character, to your opinions that in so many cases are opposite of mine, and yet, you are very intelligent...what's a girl to do?

Incest IS RAPE!!!! No f*cking IF ANDS OR BUTS.

A father or mother's position over their own child is such that it is RAPE no matter the age if they have sex, consenual or not.

Having been a victim of incest with my uncle at age 11, yes, incest doesn't infer rape...IT IS!:hey

 

[Haus]

Im sorry what happened to you Hart but Incest is not always Rape tho. there are people in this world who actually enjoy that shit and are not forced to do it

 

[hart]

Im sorry what happened to you Hart but Incest is not always Rape tho. there are people in this world who actually enjoy that shit and are not forced to do it

Very few, and I ask you, at eleven years old, I started my monthlies at 11 so it is possible, should I have had to go thru a pregnancy? I never told anyone until I was 18, so what would you have had me do. Go thru a pregnancy at age 11?

There are times it is not a woman/girl's fault she get's pregnant, and hon, incest happens much more commonly than you might know, or is acknowledge.

It's a largely unreported crime. Again, I maintain, an older person, a relative to whom you are told to trust has sex with you....it is rape! Whether forcible or not, it is rape.

And especially in such cases abortion should be an option. I don't care what the age of the mother is.

 

[wednesday]

Im so sorry Hart to read your post..
But Haus is correct, Incest is not normally classed as rape.
There are many ways in which incest can take place... and unfortunately it can be between two consenting adults.

Incest is any sexual intercourse between close relatives irrespective of the ages of the participants and irrespective of their consent, that is illegal, or socially taboo. The type of sexual activity and the nature of the relationship between people that constitutes a breach of law or social taboo vary with culture and jurisdiction. Some societies consider it to include only those who live in the same household, or who belong to the same clan or lineage; other societies consider it to include "blood relatives"; other societies further include those related by adoption or marriage.

Wiki is my friend...
I think that Rape/Incest/and child abuse are not considered under the same view..no matter how vile they all are.

 

[Haus]

Very few, and I ask you, at eleven years old, I started my monthlies at 11 so it is possible, should I have had to go thru a pregnancy? I never told anyone until I was 18, so what would you have had me do. Go thru a pregnancy at age 11?

There are times it is not a woman/girl's fault she get's pregnant, and hon, incest happens much more commonly than you might know, or is acknowledge.

It's a largely unreported crime. Again, I maintain, an older person, a relative to whom you are told to trust has sex with you....it is rape! Whether forcible or not, it is rape.

And especially in such cases abortion should be an option. I don't care what the age of the mother is.

I dont know what I would do but if you were 11 years old and he forced you to have sex with him. Relative or not. that IS rape.

I believe that Abortion should be up to the woman. Now if Im with a girl who i get pregnant, I wouldnt like her to get an abortion but it is up to her. I just hope she wouldnt do it behind my back if an abortion is what she wanted. I at least want her to talk to me about it first

 

[hart]

I dont know what I would do but if you were 11 years old and he forced you to have sex with him. Relative or not. that IS rape.

I believe that Abortion should be up to the woman. Now if Im with a girl who i get pregnant, I wouldnt like her to get an abortion but it is up to her. I just hope she wouldnt do it behind my back if an abortion is what she wanted. I at least want her to talk to me about it first

Now that I can whole heartedly agree with! :thumbup

 

[Hans]

I am sorry to hear about that past, but as others have stated they are not the same. That being said, they are not mutually exclusive either - incest CAN be rape, but incest is NOT rape on its own.

To clarify all my points though, legally I feel that abortion in MOST cases should be illegal. If a person has made a mistake which has led to pregnancy, at that point they should have to deal with the consequences accordingly.

Morally, I feel that even if one is raped, they should still give birth to the child. I am fully aware that it is presumptuous, considering I am not a woman, but I feel that it is any human beings right to help defend life when possible. The only exception are in complications which threaten the life of the mother. In that case, which would seem to be one of the hardest any person would have to make, it is understandable to opt for an abortion.

 

[hart]

I am sorry to hear about that past, but as others have stated they are not the same. That being said, they are not mutually exclusive either - incest CAN be rape, but incest is NOT rape on its own.

To clarify all my points though, legally I feel that abortion in MOST cases should be illegal. If a person has made a mistake which has led to pregnancy, at that point they should have to deal with the consequences accordingly.

Morally, I feel that even if one is raped, they should still give birth to the child. I am fully aware that it is presumptuous, considering I am not a woman, but I feel that it is any human beings right to help defend life when possible. The only exception are in complications which threaten the life of the mother. In that case, which would seem to be one of the hardest any person would have to make, it is understandable to opt for an abortion.

I'll just leave it as I respectfully disagree. Wanna hold hands and sing Kum baya? :jk

 

[Goat Whisperer]

This thread has been going on for a while so I'm just going to share my opinion on it.

I don't see any problems with abortion--while the FETUS is still young enough to not feel pain. My reason why is simple, what is the differrence between a peice of sperm and an egg seperated and a peice of sperm and an egg that's been put together? Outside of the womb we kill millions of sperm and eggs. If that couple that accidentally got pregnant had used a condom the 'fetus' would have been murdered the same, just before conception. After conception it is the same to kill the fetus as before; as long as the fetus is still young enough to not feel pain.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

To clarify all my points though, legally I feel that abortion in MOST cases should be illegal. If a person has made a mistake which has led to pregnancy, at that point they should have to deal with the consequences accordingly.

Oh, so your more for the whole 'punish the irresponsible couple' rather then 'save the innocent baby' stance?

 

[Hans]

Oh, so your more for the whole 'punish the irresponsible couple' rather then 'save the innocent baby' stance?

Why cant I be both? Life is sacred, irresponsibility should be punished or disciplined. I believe in both.

A sperm cell or an egg by itself is not going to end up in being life. A zygote/fetus will. That is the difference, and you cannot really argue otherwise effectively. You could argue that it is not a human being until it is given birth, but I dont think the whole pain/viewing sperm and egg seperate is the best way to present the argument.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Why cant I be both? Life is sacred, irresponsibility should be punished or disciplined. I believe in both.

It should never be about punishment. I can understand you wanting to protect 'life' but it isn't their belief that sex is wrong. That is your belief. To them, it isn't irresponsible or immoral. You shouldn't have the ability to punish someone for having a different moral belief then you; unless if it infringes upon the rights of other people (fetuses are not legally people btw).

 

[Goat Whisperer]

A sperm cell or an egg by itself is not going to end up in being life. A zygote/fetus will. That is the difference, and you cannot really argue otherwise effectively. You could argue that it is not a human being until it is given birth, but I dont think the whole pain/viewing sperm and egg seperate is the best way to present the argument.

What is the difference between me using a condom to kill a baby before it is conceived and letting it conceive and killing it a month later anyways?

 

[Tuxx]

Their life, their decision. Not mine.

Shame on you if you're irresponsible. But I'm not doing anything about it.

 

[Butterfly]

My reason why is simple, what is the differrence between a peice of sperm and an egg seperated and a peice of sperm and an egg that's been put together? .

Because within about 21 days of the sperm and egg merging (which is pretty close to when you'd find out you are pregnant) that sperm/egg combo has a beating heart. That is what makes it different to an egg or sperm cell individually. And in my opinion, something with a beating heart is a life!