Why the United States is Fucked

[Alien Allen]

I'd love to hear exactly what Obama has done to prolong this recession.

There's a whole lot of evidence pointing toward 30 + years of conservative policy contributing heavily to this current economic misery though. And isn't it interesting that conservatives are calling for even more of the deregulation that contributed to our current state of affairs? Talk about insanity..........

Like I said the liberals never find fault with their policies

Both FDR and Obama spent tons of money and appear to be supporters of Keynesian economics. Both took bad economic times and made them far worse. Pretty simple really. IMO

As stated earlier or elsewhere though congress is really the one to be faulted as they control the money. The president may drive the bus but congress has the keys to it and the money to put gas in it.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Like I said the liberals never find fault with their policies

Both FDR and Obama spent tons of money and appear to be supporters of Keynesian economics. Both took bad economic times and made them far worse. Pretty simple really. IMO

As stated earlier or elsewhere though congress is really the one to be faulted as they control the money. The president may drive the bus but congress has the keys to it and the money to put gas in it.

Give an example of an Obama policy that was actually implemented and the verifiable negative results.

 

[Accountable]

I'd love to hear exactly what Obama has done to prolong this recession.

There's a whole lot of evidence pointing toward 30 + years of conservative policy contributing heavily to this current economic misery though. And isn't it interesting that conservatives are calling for even more of the deregulation that contributed to our current state of affairs? Talk about insanity..........

Well, we discussed generalities: http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread.php?65215-Obama-is-to-Bush-as-FDR-was-to-Hoover&highlight=1920

More specifically, I think this congress and administration are hurting recovery by dangling temp fixes, temp cuts, and temp incentives. At most, that will only bring about temp and half-assed responses. If they had either 1) established some kind of permanent jobs program, like an infrastructure repair scheme of some type, or 2) declared and demonstrated their commitment that the federal spigot is turned off, then the capital investment people would have a dependable landscape to maneuver over.

my opinion

 

[Alien Allen]

A good example of temp fixes is Detroit

They have tried to live on a budget based on having the population of 50 years ago.

Only now as they are at a crisis situation are they finally going to make the structural reform required.

MI has been till now for years been using gimmicks to kick the can down the road. Ten years plus of that. Granholm and Obama are made from the same cloth. I don't think it is a coincidence that now with some fiscal responsibility next year will be the first time since 2000 that jobs will be created.

The state will add jobs in 2011 for the first time since 2000.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011112260356

As to Obama and specifics.. Start with the stimulus package... That was a short term gimmick that did not provide hardly any full time jobs and at a huge cost. Would have accomplished more to just write a check to everybody and let them spend it. IMO

 

[JuggsBunny]

Bush started the snowball rolling when it comes to the bullshit "stimulus" package(s).

I'm tired of the Republicans who are cutting off their noses in order to spite their faces. Fucking tired of the middle-class being used as cheap pawns and whipping posts. What I think should happen??? Congress needs to live just like the middle-class for 3 months. Let's be sure that they have no medical insurance and at least one shitty automobile with NO savings. Those rat-bastards would be singing a different tune if they were actually in touch with their constituents.

 

[Accountable]

Bush started the snowball rolling when it comes to the bullshit "stimulus" package(s).

True

I'm tired of the Republicans who are cutting off their noses in order to spite their faces. Fucking tired of the middle-class being used as cheap pawns and whipping posts. What I think should happen??? Congress needs to live just like the middle-class for 3 months. Let's be sure that they have no medical insurance and at least one shitty automobile with NO savings. Those rat-bastards would be singing a different tune if they were actually in touch with their constituents.

Hehehehe. You're a trip, laying this on repubs as if the dems are blameless. I know you don't believe that & that you've said as much. I guess it's just habit.

I'm on another forum where someone brought up a really jacked up explanation why the repubs are blocking everything in Washington. Makes me think of Jerry Sandusky a bit. I agree with your idea about living middle class. They can do everything via telecommute today, so maybe they should live in accessible apartments in their respective districts for their whole terms.

 

[JuggsBunny]

My mistake, actually!! I should've put everything AFTER my first sentence about the Republicans in a different paragraph. For clarification purposes, I think that the Dems, Repubs, and Independent(s) should have to live like their constituents. You are right - lawmakers should live like the middle-class. If they had to live on a shit salary, in the same conditions their voters lived in, we might actually see parties working together to make life better for everyone - not just themselves.

I'm very, very liberal when it comes to social issues - but a fiscal conservative. Pro-choice, atheist, and crazy are also other words that describe me...

 

[Accountable]

My mistake, actually!! I should've put everything AFTER my first sentence about the Republicans in a different paragraph. For clarification purposes, I think that the Dems, Repubs, and Independent(s) should have to live like their constituents. You are right - lawmakers should live like the middle-class. If they had to live on a shit salary, in the same conditions their voters lived in, we might actually see parties working together to make life better for everyone - not just themselves.

I'm very, very liberal when it comes to social issues - but a fiscal conservative. Pro-choice, atheist, and crazy are also other words that describe me...

DOH!

I thought I was talking to someone else. Sorry.

 

[Johnfromokc]

As to Obama and specifics.. Start with the stimulus package... That was a short term gimmick that did not provide hardly any full time jobs and at a huge cost. Would have accomplished more to just write a check to everybody and let them spend it. IMO

What stimulus package? Did you mean the continuation of the Bush bank bailouts??

What stimulus package was passed? Got a link to that legislation?

 

[Alien Allen]

Obama continued with TARP that Bush started. Obama had a chance to clean it up and bring some accountability to the banks but failed to.

I was referring to the Stimulus ( ARRA) which was passed in Feb 2009

Not so sure how much Bush had to do with it

 

[Accountable]

What stimulus package? Did you mean the continuation of the Bush bank bailouts??

What stimulus package was passed? Got a link to that legislation?

Really? Please tell me you don't want to get into a semantics game.

 

[MoonOwl]

I came across this on Reddit and thought of this thread:

 

[Alien Allen]

What stimulus package? Did you mean the continuation of the Bush bank bailouts??

What stimulus package was passed? Got a link to that legislation?

Is that the best you can come up with when backed into a corner?

Should I have labeled it the 111th congress stimulus package formally known as the American Recovery Act?

If you want to call those Bush bailouts that is fair enough. As stated before he was in charge and it was on his watch. Just don't play the game that on Obamas watch the stimulus package was not his doing.

by the way I was totally against the bank bailouts from day one. It was the wrong thing to do. Because there was little if any accountability and Obama and the democrats when given the chance did not make any corrections when they had the chance in early 2009

 

[Johnfromokc]

Is that the best you can come up with when backed into a corner?

Seems you're the one backed into a corner Allen. You're not providing any evidence to back your claim.

Should I have labeled it the 111th congress stimulus package formally known as the American Recovery Act?

Wait a minute - where's the "Obama Stimulus" Allen? As best as I can recall, your Republicans have stopped any efforts at economic stimulus that involved infrastructure repairs that would provide employment to working class Americans and small business owners. Isn't it interesting that all over the united States, we have sewer pipies caving in, old hytdro-electric dams decaying and needing rebuild, bridges with corroding steel that need rebuilding, roads with pot holes - yet our congress and senate cannot get its collective shit together and do what govermnent is supposed to do?

And you know what's even more interesting? How seeing this is the situation in their own communities, some still insist on blaming Obama for it. Are Americans that fucking stupid to attempt to blame one man for the failure of 535 elected legislators? Sadly, yes they are. Most don't have the common sense to stop this idiotic conservative v. liberal blame game and insist we do what is right by the nation and the working class and small business class who are being hurt the most from this political asshattery.

If you want to call those Bush bailouts that is fair enough. As stated before he was in charge and it was on his watch. Just don't play the game that on Obamas watch the stimulus package was not his doing.

So what you are saying here seems to be, "Yes, those are Bush bailouts, but it's really Obama's fault now". And you follow that "logic" trail below:

by the way I was totally against the bank bailouts from day one. It was the wrong thing to do. Because there was little if any accountability and Obama and the democrats when given the chance did not make any corrections when they had the chance in early 2009

And here you are saying "Bush pushed the bailouts, but it's Obama's fault because he is a Democrat, and those Democrats should have undone the Republicans fuck ups by now, so therefore it's Obama's fault".

Can you not see how idiotic it is for Americans to engage in this circular argument? Can you not see that small business and the working class are the ones suffering while we fight amongst ourselves? Can you not see the top 1% laughing all the way to the bank as working class and small business class Americans blame each other for the fucking the top 1% is giving us? Can you not see that conservatism is all about conserving the status quo of the top 1%?

 

[Alien Allen]

you must have 1% tattooed on your ass because that is all you seem to care to respond with

If there is anything circular it is your responses.

 

[Johnfromokc]

you must have 1% tattooed on your ass because that is all you seem to care to respond with

If there is anything circular it is your responses.

Ok - that was nice. Shall I reply that you have a severe case of Cranial Rectumitus seeing how you view of life is obstructed since your head is so firmly ensconsed up your own ass?

Conservatism is indeed a social disease in your case Allen.

Seriously - can you not see what is happening? I gave you plenty of issues to discuss, but you come back with nothing.

You can do better.

 

[redliner]

John you chat with alot of people who have there heads up there ass. Could it be that your ignorate towards other opinions ? One way street with you and your the driver. Always. Never wrong.

 

[Johnfromokc]

John you chat with alot of people who have there heads up there ass. Could it be that your ignorate towards other opinions ? One way street with you and your the driver. Always. Never wrong.

Ok redliner, I'll play. I'll even type slow so you can keep up.

Go look at AA's latest response and tell this board if it was deserving of anything other than the smart ass tone he implied.

Now - do you have anything of substance to add to this thread, or do you just want to talk about me - seems I'm your favorite subject in threads like these.

I have told you before - if you have something to add, I will engage you. If not, I'll respond in kind. You have admittied you don't even have a clue how your own countries political system operates - so what makes you think you can intelligently comment on United States politics?

 

[Alien Allen]

Ok I should have picked a different body part rather than the ass. It was meant to imply you parrot the same exact stuff about the 1% all of the time so you have it stamped as a reminder. Nothing more or less. We get the point. We don't need it to be brought into every discussion.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Ok I should have picked a different body part rather than the ass. It was meant to imply you parrot the same exact stuff about the 1% all of the time so you have it stamped as a reminder. Nothing more or less. We get the point. We don't need it to be brought into every discussion.

But that's who controls our political and economic lives to a huge extent Allen. That's who controls the politicians WE elected. And that's a fact - you do not deny that do you?