Why does the left see astroturf everywhere they look?

[Alien Allen]

What has Chomsky got to do will pretty much all Socialists who you class as un intelligent?

One can be smart and have dumb ideas

 

[edgray]

One can be smart and have dumb ideas

whilst I don't agree your statement is true in regards to Chomsky, it has been known to be true. Sir Clive Sinclair, clever sod, inventor of the personal calculator, ruined his career with this little gem!

 

[Accountable]

I think a lot of people would take issue with your inference that Socialists and leftists are not intelligent. Statistics argue that in the West, people who vote for Social Democratic or Left-Leaning political parties are on average, more educated than their right-wing counterparts.

Formal education does not grant wisdom, and lack of formal education does not eliminate intelligence.

:24: :homo:

I don't know why you're laughing. You've been pot-kettling for the past several pages.

 

[edgray]

I don't know why you're laughing. You've been pot-kettling for the past several pages.

how so?

 

[Peter Parka]

I just love how some Americans are so against Socialism yet take full advantage of it in their everyday life. If it wasn't for Socialism, the'd have zero rights in their workplace and I'm sure the'd be the first to appeal against an unfair dismissal or other violation of their working conditions if their boss tried to take the piss.:24:

 

[edgray]

whilst I don't agree your statement is true in regards to Chomsky, it has been known to be true. Sir Clive Sinclair, clever sod, inventor of the personal calculator, ruined his career with this little gem!

(Missing pic of Sinclair C5!)

 

[Accountable]

I just love how some Americans are so against Socialism yet take full advantage of it in their everyday life. If it wasn't for Socialism, the'd have zero rights in their workplace and I'm sure the'd be the first to appeal against an unfair dismissal or other violation of their working conditions if their boss tried to take the piss.:24:

Untrue. It wasn't a socialist government that force fair labor practices, it was the action of citizens themselves organizing into unions. Where the unions went too far was when they started paying for legislation. That was unnecessary and harmful.

 

[Peter Parka]

Untrue. It wasn't a socialist government that force fair labor practices, it was the action of citizens themselves organizing into unions. Where the unions went too far was when they started paying for legislation. That was unnecessary and harmful.

I didnt say it was a government that put it through but the action itself is Socialism.

 

[Tim]

I didnt say it was a government that put it through but the action itself is Socialism.

But it was the government that put it through. It may have been the unions fighting for change, but that wouldn't mean shit if the government didn't step up to the plate and enact the laws to protect the worker.

We can thank the unions for 40 hour work weeks, vacation pay, child labor laws, maternity leave, workplace safety, overtime pay, etc... We have it much easier in the workplace today because of unions and the socialist laws passed to protect us.

 

[Minor Axis]

We can thank the unions for 40 hour work weeks, vacation pay, child labor laws, maternity leave, workplace safety, overtime pay, etc... We have it much easier in the workplace today because of unions and the socialist laws passed to protect us.

Conservatives would call this socialistic clap-trap. They certainly exist in a different, arguably anti-social, I've got mine (or want mine) screw-the-rest-of-you place. What is ironic is that most of the conservatives in this country benefit from such laws.

 

[Alien Allen]

But it was the government that put it through. It may have been the unions fighting for change, but that wouldn't mean shit if the government didn't step up to the plate and enact the laws to protect the worker.

We can thank the unions for 40 hour work weeks, vacation pay, child labor laws, maternity leave, workplace safety, overtime pay, etc... We have it much easier in the workplace today because of unions and the socialist laws passed to protect us.

Things were different back then. You did not have a plethora of lawyers wetting their pants in anticipation of lawsuits. Unions were and are an important thing but only if they don't over reach. The UAW is a classic example. They wanted the moon. They got the moon. They got greedy and now it is biting them in the ass

 

[Strauss]

I just love how some Americans are so against Socialism yet take full advantage of it in their everyday life. If it wasn't for Socialism, the'd have zero rights in their workplace and I'm sure the'd be the first to appeal against an unfair dismissal or other violation of their working conditions if their boss tried to take the piss.:24:

Now that has got to be the most humorous post of the day. Along with displaying a lack of historical knowledge. The worse working conditions in the industrial world are within socialist countries. Just take a look at what existed in the former Soviet Union and as well as China and North Korea today. The working conditions would cause a riot today in the US or any other developed western country.

 

[edgray]

Now that has got to be the most humorous post of the day. Along with displaying a lack of historical knowledge. The worse working conditions in the industrial world are within socialist countries. Just take a look at what existed in the former Soviet Union and as well as China and North Korea today. The working conditions would cause a riot today in the US or any other developed western country.

China, Soviet Union, North Korea - communist, and communism that isn't democratic, but totalitarian in nature. Not socialist at all and a branch of communism that offends most communists around the globe and certainly any socialist I've ever met.

Look at Denmark, Sweden, Norway, all right at the top end of the working conditions. The are very socialist leaning countries, yet enjoy the best working conditions in the world. Hell, Spain, where I live, enjoys much better working conditions than the US, for example, even though it's a far poorer nation. We have a socialist Prime Minister right now and the country has a pretty socialist outlook in many areas. In the UK, where socialism has always had strong support and a big influence on it's politics enjoys the same better working conditions. A good comparison is to look into the working conditions in the Edwardian era compared to the Victorian and latter eras - the socialists, via the Labour Party, gave birth to massive improvements and increases in rights.

 

[Peter Parka]

Now that has got to be the most humorous post of the day. Along with displaying a lack of historical knowledge. The worse working conditions in the industrial world are within socialist countries. Just take a look at what existed in the former Soviet Union and as well as China and North Korea today. The working conditions would cause a riot today in the US or any other developed western country.

I guess you really have no idea that Communism and Socialism are different politics. Being a Socialist dosen't mean you agree with collective farming you know! Your post has to be the most humorous of the day for its lack of basic knowledge.

 

[Pabst]

this thread has gone beyond ridiculous. you might as well name call each other and talk about the person's mother like she's a whore.

 

[Strauss]

I guess you really have no idea that Communism and Socialism are different politics. Being a Socialist dosen't mean you agree with collective farming you know! Your post has to be the most humorous of the day for its lack of basic knowledge.

Problems is you were not talking about individuals within a socialist system, you were talking about the socialist government. Try staying on topic. Socialist governments such as China and North Korea treat their workers more like disposable fodder than human beings and that is going on today. To claim that socialism is responsible for worker rights is absolutely revisionist history and not in the realm of reality.

 

[edgray]

Problems is you were not talking about individuals within a socialist system, you were talking about the socialist government. Try staying on topic. Socialist governments such as China and North Korea treat their workers more like disposable fodder than human beings and that is going on today. To claim that socialism is responsible for worker rights is absolutely revisionist history and not in the realm of reality.

See my post above, it explains everything Strauss.

Out of interest, Strauss, who do you think is responsible for the improvement in working conditions?

Just watched this, very interesting video, only seems to come on topic right at the end, but worth watching all the way through.

YouTube - Ron Paul: Blame the Government! (chomsky, mcveigh, et al)

 

[Accountable]

I didnt say it was a government that put it through but the action itself is Socialism.

so·cial·ism
n.

1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

But it was the government that put it through. It may have been the unions fighting for change, but that wouldn't mean shit if the government didn't step up to the plate and enact the laws to protect the worker.

You couldn't be more wrong. Just because the gov't stepped in doesn't mean they had to step in. Just because the gov't fucks around until the situation improves doesn't mean the gov't improved the situation.

We can thank the unions for 40 hour work weeks, vacation pay, child labor laws, maternity leave, workplace safety, overtime pay, etc... We have it much easier in the workplace today because of unions and the socialist laws passed to protect us.

We definitely owe better working conditions to unions and the changes they brought about, but they went too far when they started buying politicians and purchasing socialist laws. Unions proved that they can control corporate abuses without the gov't.

 

[Peter Parka]

Problems is you were not talking about individuals within a socialist system, you were talking about the socialist government. Try staying on topic. Socialist governments such as China and North Korea treat their workers more like disposable fodder than human beings and that is going on today. To claim that socialism is responsible for worker rights is absolutely revisionist history and not in the realm of reality.

Erem, I guess you still haven't grasped this basic knowledge yet...I don't really know how to word it any clearer for you... Socialism and Communism are two different things.

 

[Peter Parka]

so·cial·ism
n.

1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Do you really think that a big system of government like Socialism can be summed up in one sentence and one idea? There's a lot more to it than that, same as collective farming was a lot more involved than simply being controlled by the government.