Why Do People Vote Against Their Own Interest?

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Zorak

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Dont get me wrong, I think the Tories are far from perfect but looking at the mess this country is in, I think the're worth a go than sticking with this sure train into the black hole. Hopefully it might give Labour the huge kick up the arse they need to ditch Brown and get back to what the're really supposed to be about instead of this long slide into the Right wing which the're pretty much achieved.

I don't see the mess, in fact, we've weathered the recession better than USA, China, India, Germany, Italy, France etc...

I have a lot of time for Brown, but when popular ex public school boys like Jeremy Clarkson turn against you it's difficult.
Not to mention The Sun, I reckon Murdoch has a crooked deal going with Cameron... We all know Murdoch wants rid of the BBC...

The only qualm I have with Brown is with his foreign policy - I can't understand how anyone believes that a war against terrorism is winnable, or how a prolonged occupation of a country on the other side of the world makes the Streets of London safer...
 
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Accountable

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Well I'm not over there but what I've had to go on, is members of this forum being in agonnay with some complaint or other but debating whether to go to the doctors or not because they dont know how they can pay for it. That is disgusting in one of the richest nations in the world.
It would be if it were the nation's responsibility to pick up the tab for people's healthcare without rather than holding those people themselves responsible. That's not the USA.
 

Peter Parka

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I don't see the mess, in fact, we've weathered the recession better than USA, China, India, Germany, Italy, France etc...

I have a lot of time for Brown, but when popular ex public school boys like Jeremy Clarkson turn against you it's difficult.
Not to mention The Sun, I reckon Murdoch has a crooked deal going with Cameron... We all know Murdoch wants rid of the BBC...

Do you like all their pointless and silly Big Brother laws? Or the pressure they put on us to do this or do that or we're going to make life as difficult as we can for you. I want a government that is more concerned with cutting out pointless red tape, clearing up as efficiantly and quickly as possible an illegal war and giving us better services, not telling me what I should and shouldn't be doing with my own body like I'm a 5 year old.
Yes, I know the Tories probably wont be much better but at least the'll be on their toes for a bit. Problems come a lot from when a government has been in power too long, gets complacent and thinks it can do what it likes. It happened under Thatcher and it happened under Blair, the whole thing need a good jump start and a new government is the best way to get it.
 

Peter Parka

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It would be if it were the nation's responsibility to pick up the tab for people's healthcare without rather than holding those people themselves responsible. That's not the USA.

And thats what I completely disagree with. I find it appalling that the USA willingly spends far more money on an illegal war than what a national health service would cost and then everyone gets all pissed off about something that will benefit the majority of them. It sometimes seems like Americans will moan about any progress and will be happier in the dark ages using leeches to cure their ills
 

Accountable

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And thats what I completely disagree with. I find it appalling that the USA willingly spends far more money on an illegal war than what a national health service would cost and then everyone gets all pissed off about something that will benefit the majority of them. It sometimes seems like Americans will moan about any progress and will be happier in the dark ages using leeches to cure their ills
And there's the difference. Government's not necessary to fix society's ills. In fact, gov't fucks up far more than it fixes. I can't argue with you about the illegal war. I'm sliding more and more toward the opinion that we shouldn't have a standing army at all. But the federal gov't (MY federal gov't) should not turn around and spend that money, saved from warring, on fucking up the healthcare system even further. It should give that money back to the citizens so that we can decide how to spend our own money. Nobody has a more vested interest in my well-being than I. Our systems have not been damaged from too little regulation, but by protectionist policy written by politicians who were bought and paid for by those that damaged the systems.

You speak of progress. We differ on what meets the definition of the word.
 

Tim

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:24: I love the built-in bias here. The article makes it seem like only democrats could ever be for your best interest. :rolleyes:

I'd say the blanket generalization that Republicans never have voters interests is pretty much slagging them off and flaming them :dunno It's not a bad article, until the "Reverse revolution section" where it assumes only Democrats have voter's interests as a priority.

I posed this question before with no good answer...

Name one piece of legislation that has been passed by the republicans in the last 40 years that was FOR the people. And when I say the people, I mean us the working class.
Now after you scour the internet looking for a single example, you need to ask yourself what HAS the republican party done to help benefit your life.

Just one good example...
 

Tangerine

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I posed this question before with no good answer...

Name one piece of legislation that has been passed by the republicans in the last 40 years that was FOR the people. And when I say the people, I mean us the working class.
Now after you scour the internet looking for a single example, you need to ask yourself what HAS the republican party done to help benefit your life.

Just one good example...


Tax cuts?

The Education tax credit that allowed me to CREDIT, not deduct 100% of my school costs when I went to Culinary school?
 

Accountable

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Tax cuts?

The Education tax credit that allowed me to CREDIT, not deduct 100% of my school costs when I went to Culinary school?
DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! :clap Give the citrus a cigar ... but don't light it because it instantly causes cancer in all living beings withing 1/4 mile.
 

Tim

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Tax cuts?

The Education tax credit that allowed me to CREDIT, not deduct 100% of my school costs when I went to Culinary school?

You mean the hope tax credit that was proposed by the Clinton administration?

On June 4, 1996, the Clinton Administration proposed an income tax credit of $1,500 applicable to the cost of the first two years of post-secondary education. The credit could be applied to education or training at four-year colleges, community colleges, or proprietary training schools. This amount is set at the current average cost of tuition at a community college. It would supplement a previous Administration proposal for a $10,000 a year tuition tax deduction. The "Hope Scholarship," as the credit is called, supports the Administration's announced goal of establishing a universal standard of at least 14 years of schooling. The $1,500 credit for each student could be claimed for a taxpayer's education or that of a spouse or dependents. Each student would be required to maintain a B-grade average and avoid felony drug offenses. The benefit would be phased out for joint filers with adjusted gross incomes between $80,000 and $100,000 and for single taxpayers between $50,000 and $70,000 and would be reduced by the amount of any other non-taxable Federal education grants received by the student.
To make the proposal deficit-neutral, the Administration raises revenue from a combination of actions: decreasing the amount of multinational corporations' export sales income that could be treated as being derived from foreign sources; auctioning 25 megahertz of the radio spectrum previously reserved for the digital audio radio service; and imposing an international aviation passenger departure fee. An additional budget offset is generated by a reduction in the revenue loss from the proposed $10,000 educational deduction, reflecting eligible taxpayers' selection of the credit rather than the deduction.

Hell, they even had a plan on how to pay for it before it became law...
 

Accountable

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Didn't Clinton have a Repub congress to work with?
doh2.gif
Why am I participating in this pointless exercise?
 

Tim

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Yes he did. It was a republican congress that passed the democratic bill into law that helped the middle class.

So where are the bills/laws proposed by the republicans for the middle class?

I can show you tax cuts that republicans proposed and passed for the wealthy, but what about the people???
 

Tangerine

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Yes he did. It was a republican congress that passed the democratic bill into law that helped the middle class.

So where are the bills/laws proposed by the republicans for the middle class?

I can show you tax cuts that republicans proposed and passed for the wealthy, but what about the people???

Did you receive anything from the Bush tax cuts, or are you "the wealthy"?

Go ahead and rattle of your list of things that the Dems did for "the people." to enlighten the rest of us.


Geez - how on EARTH did Clinton get the Hope Tax Credit passed?? He didn't have a super-majority with 60 seats in the Senate!! You can't pass legislation without that! Hell, if you don't have THAT, you just give up and go away, right???
 

Tim

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GI Bill
NATO
Marshall Plan
Peace Corp
40-hour Work Week
Minimum Wage Law
Overtime
Social Security Act
Unemployment Compensation
Rural Electrification Act
Federal Deposit Insurance
Federal Home Loan Program
Securities & Exchange Act
Guaranteed Student Loan Program
School Lunch Program
Operation Head Start
Medicare
Medicaid
Family and Medical Leave Act
Women's Suffrage Amendment
Civil Rights Act
Voting Rights Act
Motor Voter Act
 

Tangerine

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I thought you just meant Bush administration. That's all Ibothered to look for.


How many of those you posted happened in our lifetime?
 

Accountable

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I posed this question before with no good answer...

Name one piece of legislation that has been passed by the republicans in the last 40 years that was FOR the people. And when I say the people, I mean us the working class.
Now after you scour the internet looking for a single example, you need to ask yourself what HAS the republican party done to help benefit your life.

Just one good example...

Tax cuts?

The Education tax credit that allowed me to CREDIT, not deduct 100% of my school costs when I went to Culinary school?

You mean the hope tax credit that was proposed by the Clinton administration?

Hell, they even had a plan on how to pay for it before it became law...

Yes he did. It was a republican congress that passed the democratic bill into law that helped the middle class.

So where are the bills/laws proposed by the republicans for the middle class?

I can show you tax cuts that republicans proposed and passed for the wealthy, but what about the people???

You're changing your own rules in midstream.
naughty.gif


Based on your list, I take it that your phrase "for the people" disregards whether the bill that was passed actually helped, to what degree it helped vs hurt society, or was actually constitutional, right?

Y'know, for somebody who claims to not be a democrat, you sure are fixated on the party.

eta: and stop the class warfare bullshit. Wealthy Americans are just as much We The People as apologists for the democrat party are.
 
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retro

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GI Bill
NATO
Marshall Plan
Peace Corp
40-hour Work Week
Minimum Wage Law
Overtime
Social Security Act
Unemployment Compensation
Rural Electrification Act
Federal Deposit Insurance
Federal Home Loan Program
Securities & Exchange Act
Guaranteed Student Loan Program
School Lunch Program
Operation Head Start
Medicare
Medicaid
Family and Medical Leave Act
Women's Suffrage Amendment
Civil Rights Act
Voting Rights Act
Motor Voter Act

Well lets see, the first draft of the GI Bill was written by Harry W. Colmery, a Republican. Another Republican, Warren Atherton, was known as one of the "fathers of the G.I. Bill". Another co-author and co-sponsor was Edith Nourse Rogers, another Republican.

I have no idea how you can claim that the Democrats created NATO, but okay. Furthermore, even if they did, I'm not certain how you could claim that it was done for the "working class".

The Marshall Plan was, "for rebuilding and creating a stronger economic foundation for the countries of Western Europe, and repelling the threat of internal communism after World War II." That has nothing to do with the working class of this country.

Okay, the Peace Corp was introduced by a Democrat, but I'm not entirely certain how it helped the working class other than allowing them to go serve places in other countries.

The 40 hour work week is great, too bad it wasn't passed with the intention of actually helping the average American citizen. Go read NSC-68 and consider yourself enlightened.

Minimum wage law was in fact proposed by the Democrats, as was overtime.

The Social Security Act... oh wait, you mean the giant unconstitutional entitlement program/ponzi scheme? Yes, that's a crowning achievement of the Democratic party. Another unintended consequence was that it allowed the Clinton administration to steal money from the program in order to claim a budget surplus during the late 90s. A bogus surplus that Obama even referred to during his SOTU address.

Unemployment Compensation was passed as a result of the Social Security Act, so chalk another one up to the Democrats.

The Rural Electrification Act was co-sponsored/authored by a Republican, George W. Norris.

The FDIC, while it sounds good in theory, is just another arm of the Federal Reserve, a wholly unconstitutional institution that carries far too much power.

Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac.... well we all saw how well those worked once a Democratic president pushed them to offer loans to people who were in no way qualified financially for.

I'm guessing you're referring to the Securities Act of 1933, which was in fact written by and signed into law by Democrats.

Yes, the Higher Education Act of 1965 was part of LBJ's Great Society.

The National School Lunch Act was written by and signed into law by Democrats.

The Head Start program was part of the Great Society as well.

Medicare... yay, another unconstitutional entitlement program/ponzi scheme. Medicaid is actually constitutional, because it delegates the power to the states for their health care programs.

yep, FMLA was written by and signed into law by Democrats.

I didn't find anywhere that supported the Nineteenth Amendment as being something that the Democrats passed, other than the fact that Wilson was the president at the time.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was sent to congress by Kennedy, but the basis for that legislation was the Civil Rights act of 1875, which was written by and signed into law originally by Republicans before it was deemed unconstitutional.

The Voting Rights Act was written by and signed into law by Democrats. As was the Motor Voter Act.
 

Minor Axis

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Why do people often vote against their own interests?

Ideological brainwashing, emotions/ideology over logic, especially illustrated when average groups of people vote for a political party who has no interest in average citizens as anything other than worker bees, who should know their place, make no demands of society, and allow the robber barrens to make their fortunes unmolested, regardless of the negative long term effects on society's viability and ability to look out for the best interests of the majority of it's citizens instead of catering to a well-off few.
 

Tangerine

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You're changing your own rules in midstream.
naughty.gif


Based on your list, I take it that your phrase "for the people" disregards whether the bill that was passed actually helped, to what degree it helped vs hurt society, or was actually constitutional, right?

Y'know, for somebody who claims to not be a democrat, you sure are fixated on the party.

eta: and stop the class warfare bullshit. Wealthy Americans are just as much We The People as apologists for the democrat party are.

And some of the most vocal supporters and advocates of the Democratic Party and the liberal agenda are among some of the most wealthy people in America. Or don't sports and entertainment stars count?
 
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