What Makes you Moral?

[Minor Axis]

What makes you moral- your actions, thoughts, based on free will or punishment? Lets forget about all of the possible interpretations of what morality is and keep this simple. I'm going to use the always popular 10 commandments (Wiki link ) for this discussion but acknowledge that it is not the only standard out there. There could be more examples such as "you die, it's all over, so who gives a shit." But I'd like to stick to my two examples below.

Example 1- You live on the Earth, there is a giant camera in the sky (GOD) that records every action you take in your life. God has given you a standard, the 10 commandments and a warning of punishment, if you don't do what I say, or believe how I tell you to believe you will be punished for all eternity. You live your life, follow all the rules because you don't want to burn in hell and upon your passing to the spiritual plane arrive at the gates of Heaven. You get an "A" (using the grading scaled A-F) from God. Party time! Where are the virgins?

Exampe 2- you are given an opportunity to live your life, discover your strengths and weaknesses, learn lessons, and make moral choices, hurt or help others based on free will. When you die, you arrive at the spiritual evaluation committee (or God if you prefer) who grades you based on your past life and hands it to you for self reflection until you move on to the next test.

Which situation gives you a better opportunity to be moral? In example one, if you follow all of the "rules", does this make you moral -OR- does it only indicate you are an excellent rule follower?

More importantly do you think an all powerful, all wise god would really judge people based on example number 1? What kind of morality do you really have if all of peoples' actions on this Earth are based on punishment? I just don't see Example 1 as a worthy standard for God to judge people on.

 

[MoonOwl]

Since "God" gave us "Free Will", I go w/#2... Oh the Karma I have accumulated.... I think I have more good than bad at this moment

 

[Lord Stanley]

both of your examples point to God's influence on your direction after death

i prefer to think that there is no such influence, once we pass we merge with the infinte, and, potentially we are re-born in a different form, i.e we exist not as one whole being but a complicated mess of matter and energy that is over time fluid - so my beahviour may be judged by others close to me on it's moral merit and as such affects their opinion of my actions, it goes no deeper than that

 

[Peter Parka]

Personally my morals dictate that there is nothing wrong with something if it dosen't hurt anyone exept yourself or others who willingly take the risk with you.

 

[Mystic]

....what about persons born without conscience? those who, by religion were created by god, do they get a free pass because 'god' has not given them the right brain function to decipher right from wrong or the care that their decision would harm others? Is this perhaps where the rule laid out can be used for such persons, or do they too, get to have 'freewill' even though they lack the understanding?

 

[Minor Axis]

both of your examples point to God's influence on your direction after death

i prefer to think that there is no such influence, once we pass we merge with the infinte, and, potentially we are re-born in a different form, i.e we exist not as one whole being but a complicated mess of matter and energy that is over time fluid - so my beahviour may be judged by others close to me on it's moral merit and as such affects their opinion of my actions, it goes no deeper than that

What I was shooting for in example 2 was that while there might be judgment, from who or what, really unknown, the judgment if any might just be self judgment.

 

[Minor Axis]

....what about persons born without conscience? those who, by religion were created by god, do they get a free pass because 'god' has not given them the right brain function to decipher right from wrong or the care that their decision would harm others? Is this perhaps where the rule laid out can be used for such persons, or do they too, get to have 'freewill' even though they lack the understanding?

Sounds like God's fault... Seriously, I would not imply anyone gets a free pass, but then again, why not if you are talking about being punished. Self improvement requires self evaluation. External punishment does not really make you a better person does it? It's really all about what you think.

 

[RedRyder]

Interesting topic. I'll take #2 please.

My upbringing has a lot to do with the moral fiber I wear today. I won't steal. I won't cheat (adultery, cards, etc.). I won't lie (other than a tiny little ole white lie and who does that hurt anyway). I won't kill (unless I am forced to whether in self defense or to save another).

What are those other commandments anyway?

I think I live my life as a good person. I do what I can and help where I may. I'm not perfect by any means. I have done a couple of things that I am not proud of and have asked God to forgive me. I think He has.

 

[Dana]

morality is sometimes overrated.

 

[Minor Axis]

morality is sometimes overrated.

Why is that? How about an example where morality (based on an accepted moral standard) is bad?

 

[Minor Axis]

I think I live my life as a good person. I do what I can and help where I may. I'm not perfect by any means. I have done a couple of things that I am not proud of and have asked God to forgive me. I think He has.

That is if there is someone to ask forgiveness from who is actually listening. Yours is a good standard to shoot for but raises a question- Does a moral standard require a religious belief to back it up? I'd say no. This is not a critique of your reply, just a statement on my part- Morality such as "treat others as you would have them treat you" requires no religious belief at all.

There is a 10 Commandment link in my first post of this thread.

 

[RedRyder]

That is if there is someone to ask forgiveness from who is actually listening. Yours is a good standard to shoot for but raises a question- Does a moral standard require a religious belief to back it up? I'd say no. This is not a critique of your reply, just a statement on my part- Morality such as "treat others as you would have them treat you" requires no religious belief at all.

There is a 10 Commandment link in my first post of this thread.

You either believe or you don't.

In answer to your question about religious belief back up..... I don't think it does. I've met some very good people (what they do when they are away from me I can't say for certain, so I base this on what I see and feel when around them) who don't believe in God or religion or higher beings. They come from various backgrounds.... some not so good.... and yet.... they chose to be of good moral character. What I see as good moral character.

..... and I was being rhetorical regarding the Commandments.

 

[cam elle toe]

I go with #2, BUT


I believe we judge ourselves when we get "there", not God.

We look at all the footage "God" has taken, and see where we went wrong/right and resolve to "fix" it up in the next life if we choose to

I think God is just the "overseer" if you will. He does not judge, we judge ourselves.

 

[Minor Axis]

I go with #2, BUT


I believe we judge ourselves when we get "there", not God.

We look at all the footage "God" has taken, and see where we went wrong/right and resolve to "fix" it up in the next life if we choose to

I think God is just the "overseer" if you will. He does not judge, we judge ourselves.

I agree on judgement. It makes all the difference if you do something because of what you believe versus the fear of being punished. Therefore, I don't believe that "punishment" is a meaningful factor when it comes to the next life. (And the exact nature and extent of whatever the force "God" represents, is undetermined.)

 

[itsmeJonB]

this should help clear things up

YouTube - Atheist morality vs Christian morality

 

[Minor Axis]

One of the most entertaining presentations in defense of Christian morality EVER!! LOL!! Wait a min, is this serious?

Summary:
God says don't kick a midget and it's ok to metaphorically kill homosexuals!

Inferior Atheists get their morality from evolution which says survival to the fittest, so it's ok to kill the weak.

 

[itsmeJonB]

you would kick a midget!

 

[Minor Axis]

I have my midget kicking boots on right now, but don't call me an Athiest!

PS- where did you get your WoW signature?

 

[Tangerine]

Why is that? How about an example where morality (based on an accepted moral standard) is bad?

How can anyone claim that there is such a thing as "an accepted moral standard?" Any 10 people people from any 10 places on this planet will have 10 dramatically different "standards" as to what is moral and what is not.

 

[itsmeJonB]

I have my midget kicking boots on right now, but don't call me an Athiest!

PS- where did you get your WoW signature?

DKPSigs.com - World of Warcraft Signature Generator

and theres nothing wrong with Atheists