What is your belief?

[elluko]

So, am I reading this correctly? Are you saying that if you are talking to someone and they mention God you ask them to use the word "something" instead of "God"?

Oh for the love of Something!
Something Dammit!
Oh for Somethings sake!
I pray to Something each night.
Save me Something!

I prefer God. Something just doesnt really roll off the tongue.

 

[White2000GT]

^^^ Exactly.

 

[FunkyIce]

Oh for the love of Something!
Something Dammit!
Oh for Somethings sake!
I pray to Something each night.
Save me Something!

I prefer God. Something just doesnt really roll off the tongue.

You are merely talking about god from your perspective and attacking my view (from a different perspective). You’re taking my view and literally trying to place in the English language where your understanding of “god” belonged. Let me put his nicely, are there any reasons why you would make a comment like this?

 

[PrincessJettMicheyl]

Are you an Atheist, Agnostic or Theist?

What do you truly believe to be the answer?


Please, explain why you have your belief.

Please, debate without getting personal. I know this is an area where many people get very emotional.

Let me start

I am agnostic. I believe the "god" area is a place where we can't be sure. I believe that to think you have the ability to answer this great question is absurd. We can''t know.​

​

​

I choose to return to the original post because I have no need, want, or desire to sift thru all the madness you've unearthed, FunkyIce. lol

I consider myself a Wiccan, but not in the purest sense. Eclectic Wicca is the proper term. As for a God, I believe there are many different ones available to anyone who chooses to call upon that particular entity. Think of it like the facets of a jewel. They are a smaller piece of a bigger whole. They just have different names, and they are here to work with us & guide us on our journeys.

As for whether or not we can know with any certainty if there is a god, you are correct. People can be convinced themselves that there is a god, but they can't always prove to another person the same thing.

However, each person's religious beliefs are as personal as their opinions. They are all different, and some beliefs are a little flimsy, and some beliefs are non-existant. It's allowed, and I encourage it wholeheartedly.

I'm finished writing, because I've just started to develop a headache. Pouring this much congruent thought into a post doesn't always come easily. lol

 

[NightWarrior]

I believe that long ago, someone made up a good story to explain why we are here on this planet. Also, it is an attempt to give people something to answer to when they die. I respect everyone's religion. What I do not respect is the fact that it is shoved down our throats here in America. God appears everywhere in our government, for which it has no place since, this is America, and every religion has their own Deity and America is made up of those people with different religions. What people fail to realize is that if you believe in God, then you must believe in the Devil, for they go hand in hand. Why must it be so cut and dry? I'm not going to sit here and try to convince people there is no God, I have no idea on the matter. I love these debates where everyone is free to speak their mind on this matter, you'll always have that huge group that believes in God, several in the "middle" ground - those that think there might be a God, but don't believe in him, and then your going to have the group that feels there is no God. Why must we label ourselves? My favorite line in the movie Pitch Black is when Riddick looks at the religious guy and says, "Where's your God now, father?"

 

[White2000GT]

You are merely talking about god from your perspective and attacking my view (from a different perspective). You’re taking my view and literally trying to place in the English language where your understanding of “god” belonged. Let me put his nicely, are there any reasons why you would make a comment like this?

I don't think young Elluko was attacking your view at all. He was simply taking what you had said in a previous post and putting it into HIS words and then stating HIS opinion that it just didn't sound right. Don't be so defensive dude.

 

[sharpies]

Wow, doesn't the religious debate just get so heated - gotta love it!

Allan

 

[White2000GT]

I know what you mean Allan. Some people are a little too sensitive when it comes to this issue.
I don't get too fired up about religion. About the only thing that will get me fired up is if someone tells me that my flying the American Flag offends them and that I should take it down. Oooooohhhh..... don't get me started on that one.

 

[elluko]

You are merely talking about god from your perspective and attacking my view (from a different perspective). You’re taking my view and literally trying to place in the English language where your understanding of “god” belonged. Let me put his nicely, are there any reasons why you would make a comment like this?

I was trying to make a point. I didnt mean to attack your views in any way.
Usually people dont find a little humor offensive. Im just stating my opinion.

 

[SilentEyz]

Funky Ice,

You bring up interesting thoughts, But you only offer people to debate in absolutes. In debate there is no absolutes, There are opinions, and all opinions are Justified by the opiniators, personnel experiances and beliefs. To expect all people to fall under the realm of what you consider to be absolutes, Is really Expecting society as a mass form to lack the ability to think outside of structered form.

That is finding only acceptance in those who agree to the foundation that life is a creation of absolutes. It is also the beginning of closed minds, You should always be willing to accept that people will think along their own terms, and that their idea's thoughts and feeling's will not always fall into an absolute.

If life and society depended strictly on the thinking of absolutes, Science and creativity would have failed before it was ever born, For the free thinkers are what create curiosity among the many.

 

[Kat]

Funky Ice,

You bring up interesting thoughts, But you only offer people to debate in absolutes. In debate there is no absolutes, There are opinions, and all opinions are Justified by the opiniators, personnel experiances and beliefs. To expect all people to fall under the realm of what you consider to be absolutes, Is really Expecting society as a mass form to lack the ability to think outside of structered form.

That is finding only acceptance in those who agree to the foundation that life is a creation of absolutes. It is also the beginning of closed minds, You should always be willing to accept that people will think along their own terms, and that their idea's thoughts and feeling's will not always fall into an absolute.

If life and society depended strictly on the thinking of absolutes, Science and creativity would have failed before it was ever born, For the free thinkers are what create curiosity among the many.

You have such a way with words silent... I couldnt figure out how to word what I wanted to say.... but you did it perfectly....and so in saying this


^^ditto to what she said^^

 

[lemon]

I know what you mean Allan. Some people are a little too sensitive when it comes to this issue.
I don't get too fired up about religion. About the only thing that will get me fired up is if someone tells me that my flying the American Flag offends them and that I should take it down. Oooooohhhh..... don't get me started on that one.

put a rebel one up

 

[sharpies]

If life and society depended strictly on the thinking of absolutes, Science and creativity would have failed before it was ever born, For the free thinkers are what create curiosity among the many.

This is the problem that I have with what christians call 'faith' because if you have 'faith', then no amount of logic, science or debate will move you. To have a truly open mind you must first be prepared to entertain other points of view, most religious people are not.

As an atheist, I am perfectly prepared to look at the existence of God or Gods. If any one can show me any logical, factual based areguement for god, then I will be forced to change my view.

I find it most amusing that the arguement for, or against, religion somehow got turned around & that mostly it is not up to people to prove that god exists, but it is up to people to prove that he doesn't. In almost any other arguement the onus would be on proving that something you cannot hear, see, touch, taste or feel exists.

It's a funny old world.

Allan

 

[elluko]

You have such a way with words silent... I couldnt figure out how to word what I wanted to say.... but you did it perfectly....and so in saying this


^^ditto to what she said^^

I agree with you and silent.
That was also very well put.

 

[White2000GT]

put a rebel one up

I'm from the South, so I have issues with that one and its misuse and misinterpretation as well.

 

[SilentEyz]

This is the problem that I have with what christians call 'faith' because if you have 'faith', then no amount of logic, science or debate will move you. To have a truly open mind you must first be prepared to entertain other points of view, most religious people are not.

As an atheist, I am perfectly prepared to look at the existence of God or Gods. If any one can show me any logical, factual based areguement for god, then I will be forced to change my view.

I find it most amusing that the arguement for, or against, religion somehow got turned around & that mostly it is not up to people to prove that god exists, but it is up to people to prove that he doesn't. In almost any other arguement the onus would be on proving that something you cannot hear, see, touch, taste or feel exists.

It's a funny old world.

Allan

Your right Allan, and don't get me wrong, I am a Firm believer in God, and yes my opinion is, I may not be able to prove to you that he exists, but neither can you prove to me he does not.

But beyond that, Your point is relevant, But truth be the reason Many Christians ( and I dont mean all so nobody be yelling at me) but for many If they did stop to see your side of things, To stop and look at it from your point of View.. Well honestly, the reason they can't or wont do that is simply out of fear.

For many, They fear, that if they allowed themselves to see things from a view that does not believe in God, Then they fear that it would make them weak and/or lacking faith. Which is kinda sad for them, Because I myself have found that being able to acknowledge that the possibility exists, also has allowed me to be stronger in my faith and belief.

But yes, most will never stop preaching what they believe, because they do not want to become what THEY percieve as weak by doing so.

 

[FunkyIce]

Onto the topic relating to opinions, Yes, there are no absolutes. Yes, you can never declare that a person’s belief is false. BUT certain beliefs can hold more validity than others. I will give you an example: If there was a scenario where a rapist was captured for committing a horrendous crime, the rapist could say that he played no role in the crime. If he truly believes that he did not commit the crime, he has the right to think so. Even if he was seen committing the crime, his belief is that he wasn’t there. Now, this is the area where my point comes in. Certain beliefs hold more validity than others. In the case of the criminal, he would most probably be sent to a prison or mental institution.

Atheists always use science to back up their beliefs and here is my argument against it. Now, for all you atheists out there, are you aware that FACTS have been proven to be wrong? Science can change. The scientific methods used to explain the things that happen around us are just the best explanations at the moment. All of this can change. Think about how science has changed throughout the centuries. You are having faith in something that can change. You'd have to have seen all evidences to know there is no God. You cannot claim this, therefore, your atheism is illogical. The “god area” is where we can’t supply facts. In the end, it boils down to faith.

Oh, Silenteyz, please supply me with an example where I demonstrate that my view is an absolute.

 

[andcuriouser]

Onto the topic relating to opinions, Yes, there are no absolutes. Yes, you can never declare that a person’s belief is false. BUT certain beliefs can hold more validity than others. I will give you an example: If there was a scenario where a rapist was captured for committing a horrendous crime, the rapist could say that he played no role in the crime. If he truly believes that he did not commit the crime, he has the right to think so. Even if he was seen committing the crime, his belief is that he wasn’t there. Now, this is the area where my point comes in. Certain beliefs hold more validity than others. In the case of the criminal, he would most probably be sent to a prison or mental institution.

That is a horrendously bad example. Obviously the rapist's belief is incorrect, no matter how much faith he has, because he was seen committing the crime. This has nothing to do with belief anymore, but fact. The rapist was seen committing a horendous crime. Unless you are getting hopelessly abstract (how do we know that our eyes really see what they see, is rain really rain, what is time, etc. etc.), the rapist, for all intents and purposes, committed the crime, whether he believes it or not.

This example really has nothing to do with religion, as I would love to see someone peek though a curtain and go, "Oh, gotcha!" And some god or whatever shrugs his shoulders and goes, "Yep, sorry, just me." That just won't happen. Or hasn't yet, whichever you prefer. There has been no physical "thing" (for lack of a better word) to believe or not believe in. There is no rape or rapist in the religion scenario...

Atheists always use science to back up their beliefs and here is my argument against it. Now, for all you atheists out there, are you aware that FACTS have been proven to be wrong? Science can change. The scientific methods used to explain the things that happen around us are just the best explanations at the moment. All of this can change. Think about how science has changed throughout the centuries. You are having faith in something that can change. You'd have to have seen all evidences to know there is no God. You cannot claim this, therefore, your atheism is illogical. The “god area” is where we can’t supply facts. In the end, it boils down to faith.

However, science has been consistently logical about things far more than faith has. And the best explanations at the moment are probably better than having none at all, or having an unrelated one. Why does it rain? Well, precipitation falls from the sky after water has evaporated from the surface and collected in clouds. Or, a higher power did it. You choose which you prefer.
Maybe some atheists have seen as much proof as they need, which is certainly plausible if that belief has validity to them.
I don't think you can argue that atheism is "illogical", as that would make religion, or anything, really, "illogical", since there is no way to explain it, and no true proof of anything and science is only the best explanation at the moment, so it requires some faith, which is "illogical"... do you see where I'm going with this?
If atheists feel they have enough proof, fine. The best explanations of the moment provide that proof for them. Maybe the next big explanation will be that atoms are actually a miniature species of elephant-gods, and by feeding them microscopic food, they can grow to the size of a table and feed half a country. Then the atheists'll be screwed....

 

[sharpies]

Think about how science has changed throughout the centuries. You are having faith in something that can change.

I am an Atheist & I am willing to change my opinion based on data & logic. This belief is NOT faith.

Faith
noun: loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person (Example: "Keep the faith")
noun: complete confidence in a person or plan etc (Example: "He cherished the faith of a good woman")
noun: a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny (Example: "He lost his faith but not his morality")

I do not have loyalty or allegiance to Science as it is just an investigative tool. Another way to look at science is that it is a collection of tools that pulls things apart, what you do with the pieces is up to you.
I do not have complete confidence in Science. I still have many questions & don't fully believe everything I read.
The last one is obvious, just stating that I am an atheist answers this one.

The problem facing most religious people today is just how much science do you believe. If you take on too much it contradicts the word of God, but you can't deny everything that science comes up with.

Allan

 

[FunkyIce]

That is a horrendously bad example. Obviously the rapist's belief is incorrect, no matter how much faith he has, because he was seen committing the crime. This has nothing to do with belief anymore, but fact. The rapist was seen committing a horendous crime. Unless you are getting hopelessly abstract (how do we know that our eyes really see what they see, is rain really rain, what is time, etc. etc.), the rapist, for all intents and purposes, committed the crime, whether he believes it or not.

Don’t leap forward my friend, one step at a time. You will see that silenteyz said “There are opinions, and all opinions are Justified by the opiniators, personnel experiances and beliefs” Now, if this rapist truly thought he did not experience the situation, then by silenteyz’s belief, his opinion is justified. And yes, I am going to be abstract now. The rapist most probably committed the crime. But we can’t claim anything to be a fact. There is a minute chance that what the man said holds some truth. By you saying that you know for a fact that the man committed the crime, you have placed yourself to be all knowing. We can’t know if something is an ultimate fact. And no, it’s not a “horrendously bad example” as I have just demonstrated otherwise.

Sharpies, do you[FONT=&quot] agree that [/FONT][FONT=&quot]you'd have to have seen all evidences to know there is no God?[/FONT]