What is your attitude to gays and lesbians?

[Natasha]

Then we agree to disagree. It's still hypocrisy, however you choose to mitigate it. I had specific people in mind at the time and you were not one of those.

I appreciate that. And yes, I can agree to disagree. I know far more heterosexuals that are promiscious and into S&M than I do homosexuals. And the instances of death by S&M are miniscule...miniscule enough that I can't even find statistics when I google it (to be fair, I'm not exploring the links that come up TOO much due to being at work right now).

 

[Siphorous]

I appreciate that. And yes, I can agree to disagree. I know far more heterosexuals that are promiscious and into S&M than I do homosexuals. And the instances of death by S&M are miniscule...miniscule enough that I can't even find statistics when I google it (to be fair, I'm not exploring the links that come up TOO much due to being at work right now).

To be clear though - don't take my comments as to infer I'm taking any sides here. In traditional Siph fashion - I'm keeping my thoughts to myself and leaving people wondering - I was just commenting on what I saw here

 

[itsmeJonB]

I don't understand

 

[Siphorous]

I don't understand

Sorry to burst your bubble old bean, but it's been proven long ago that we won't fall off the edge of the world if we keep sailing on. The earth is a sphere, not a disc

 

[itsmeJonB]

Says you!

 

[Peter Parka]

I think You should read the sources posted first b4 you say fail. I doubt that it would only take you 14 minutes ( time of my post is : 26, your post :40 ) to read and research on all those plus post and comment on my previous post. :humm:

YOU FAILED as you didn't give yourself the chance to read and be informed more b4 saying anything in contrary to what was stated.

Why would I need to read the whole source (which you conveniently didn't put a link to)? Is there some major revelation in it which proves being gay is bad? If so, why didn't you quote that instead of a bunch of stuff which proves nothing? Very poor debating skills.

 

[redliner]

I kissed a girl and I liked it. It tastes like cherry chap stick.

 

[Panacea]

Hold on.....i think there's some form of a mistake as i didnt intend to post that. As you can see....from my previous post, that was added to your post hence without further reading when i posted i thought that sentence was part of your post. unfortuntely, it did when it wasnt my intention. So am sorry am not gonna go this route of discussion.

I take offense though for you stating I have taken statistics to create slander- have you even read the sources- or did you just respond based on your opinion ?? I dont think you have even taken the time to read the sources as i still saw you via online that you were still browsing other parts of forum after i posted. So what's the point of asking for sources to prove points and show causality as you asked for BUT not be read anyway and still your high opinion be made to reign with your post? I guess i have wasted my time eh. I rest my case. Nice debating with you. :clap

One final time. If it doesn't click it won't click.
You've provided sources you claim to be facts. My problem is not whether or not those facts are valid, but whether or not those facts actually cause harm to children. Nothing in your posts/sources have proven causation, and that is what isn't fair.

 

[Panacea]

People talk about being understanding in this thread but having read it all, I see those same people jumping on other people where those other peoples' first language is not English.

Hypocrites.

Idk who you're condemning, specifically, but I noticed pretty quickly the OP didn't seem to have the same English I did. I tried to handle that by asking for clarification on things. How do they harm children, what do you mean here, etc.

What else can someone do?

 

[BornReady]

I've just skimmed some posts but I don't remember anyone criticizing Flakey for poor English.

 

[purpledove]

One final time. If it doesn't click it won't click.
You've provided sources you claim to be facts. My problem is not whether or not those facts are valid, but whether or not those facts actually cause harm to children. Nothing in your posts/sources have proven causation, and that is what isn't fair.

I get your point about clickiing. Here's where I stand:
1) there is a link I attached with my post to HK and the sources you did ask to provide 'causality'

http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread.php?78439-What-is-your-attitude-to-gays-and-lesbians/page6

a) http://debatewise.org/debates/2255-s...m/points/10512

b) http://books.google.com/books?hl=en...=effects of homosexuality on children&f=false

@ my post to HK, I quoted this from that first site to show the LA bit re: 30,000 kids molested by homosexuals

Aside the illegality of their sexual orientations in countries that do not recognize them, report shows that homosexuals also commit grave crimes. A Chief Magistrate of the New York City Criminal Court, Judge John Martaugh said, "Homosexuals account for half the murders in large cities" and again Captain William Riddle of the Los Angeles Police says, "30,000 sexually abused children in Los Angeles were victims of homosexuals".

2) I intentionally didn't provide the link to the info of the other stats as a) It was from a religious apologetics site and I know how debaters on this forum love to easily jump to conclusions and it seems like a useless cause.I didn't want it to go that direction hence i copied the footnotes to show the source for the books and the name of the psychiatrist from which have given the info.

b) It was also a test as to how further one is open minded to seeing that no matter how small the percentage, that one can't deny homosexuality has an effect on children. That if one of you guys are really interested in knowing facts, that there is not a need for a clickable link but with the source itself one is able to look further and research more rather than jumping on me to stand your points due to your opinions.

From my point of view, any fair debater would analyze all info provided and give it that open mindedness to look into the books and research on their own, check the Psychiatrists notes provided ===> if one is really up to true debating yet NONE of you guys showed that potential

At the back of my mind....IF you guys are just dependent on the clickable links yet even if 2 links are provided, still NO ONE dared themselves to read through to analyze, or research more to back up their opinions too----then i don't think it's a fair discussion at all.
Internet info is so vast, anyone is able to find info, IF one is interested to learn, BUT seemingly, no participant in this debate have showed that.

There are other links which is only available through library site from work ( not available for public unless one buys the various books ) .....which I could have asked our Psychiatrist to provide me access to show studies about effects of homosexuality on children. But having been shown the type of attitude of this debate's participants makes me not go that far to provide such. I know am gonna be told am slanderous again. Go ahead. My point, IF you work with the courts and if you would research too, there are available info not available to public that you will able to find lots of cases to show such effects on kids going through court trials everyday.


My stance: i like gays and i dont have anything against them. I know someone commented to say that I am against them which I am not. My knowing some info about them and presenting it doesn't mean that i abhour them as you guys are pushing the idea to believe and not seeing the point that all am presenting is that homosexuality has an effect on kids. What is presented by your opinions is the fact that there is zero % effect on them which is not true and that is what am trying to refute. That is my stance and am standing firm on it as I am aware of what i know homosexuals do and have friends and patients who are homosexuals and I care for them dearly.

Idk who you're condemning, specifically, but I noticed pretty quickly the OP didn't seem to have the same English I did. I tried to handle that by asking for clarification on things. How do they harm children, what do you mean here, etc.

What else can someone do?

I am shocked at your posts in this debate 1) I've seen and known you before to be open minded esp when it comes to behavioral/mental health stuffs. That with your background, i never thought that seemingly put someone down ( Flakey) and state or question her as to her being a pediatrician or child psychologist. I didn't understand why you would do such when you yourself don't have that degree. From my stand point, it's like insulting her just coz she's able to share her opinions in same way as you have your own opinions. What kind of a degree do you have too for you to be above her? I am sorry to state this observation of mine. I have avoided offending you or insulting you. Seemingly though you went that route towards me which was shocking coming from what i thought i knew about your background in understanding and being open minded in such discussions as these.

The other thing too that i didn't quite get is: why call Flakey a troll and ride that train to do so?? Be it she is or not, that needs to be proven before one becomes judgmental enough to state that. In the courts that you work, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Shouldn't that also apply here? That in itself at a start of a debate makes things biased. For you to state that you noticed the OP as with the English, those initial statements you have posted doesn't show such until you were called for it.

You guys are not gonna expect any more posts on this thread from me. I have said my last thoughts.

You can insult me all you want. I am not gonna down that path with you guys, Good luck on this debate!!!!

 

[BornReady]

Judge John Martaugh said, "Homosexuals account for half the murders in large cities"

Do you really believe that? Sounds like something that belongs on the WBC website to me.

 

[hart]

Wow this was a fun read! It's funny just the title is funny. I don't call my friends Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals or Straights. They pretty much all have names. And I do have friends that are all the above sexual orientations. Never have seen them ever lick faces....strange I guess, even in there homes. I guess they do that in Russia but not here. Good to know, education is power.

Now I have a step daughter, she had two sons, never married, tried to deny her lesbian sexual orientation but alas she does lean that way. Funnily enuf. She was with her first girl friend 8 years. And now is married (in Canada) to her wife for 10 years and neither have AIDs, her two sons are both straight, not teased at school, good students, haven't taken to molest or torture animals...but hey 'could happen u know.

Me, I was molested by straight uncle, his son molested and impregnated his own daughter, who took to hooking, but Gosh at least we were not molested by homosexuals!!!!

By the way I am bisexual. I haven't gotten AIDS, I was promisuous (sic) as a youth, but I'm thinking it might have had more to do with being molested at age 11 by my straight uncle and beaten by my straight father and neglected by my straight alcoholic mother than being bisexual but maybe it's my devious sexual orientation.

I am happily married and as I mentioned seem to maintain relationships with all kinds.

I don't know my attitude is probably all off though. I'm glad I have some of your opinions to study and learn from. Thanx!

 

[anathelia]

PD, I know you said you don't intend to respond to anymore posts in here, and that's fine. But I do have a question for you, and perhaps a helping to understand why everyone is saying to you what they are.

You have presented these statistics that (in your first post) you stated homosexuals endorse. You can't ignore the fact that people in straight relationships "endorse" all of those same actions. The problem people are having with what you are saying is that you are making it sound like these people are behaving the way that they are because of their sexual orientation, and I personally find that impossible to believe. While their sexual orientation may be part of it...if anything it's most likely because they spent so much time being teased and whatever else when they were younger for being different that they don't really know how to be any other way. Just like everyone else, they could have been molested or abused or brought up in a violent household and I find those to be far more contributing factors to the way someone acts in regards to molestation, murder, etc than their sexual orientation.

So, what I'm trying to say is that it sounds as though you are blaming the actions of these people on their sexual orientation when that simply cannot be the case. Homosexuals are not the only people who rape, murder, get STDs, are promiscuous, or engage in questionable sexual practices behind closed doors. And there are plenty of homosexual people who don't do any of those things, just as with straight people. But we don't blame those people's actions on their sexual orientation. All I'm saying is that I think you need to look at the bigger picture and realize that correlation (albeit a very weak one) does not mean causation and you can't say that homosexuality is a major contributing factor, let alone the only one, to the way people behave.

My question in regards to the whole situation is when you say that homosexuality affects children. Are you saying that children who ARE homosexual are affected? Or children who see it are? Just for clarification purposes, because if I remember correctly, the only question posed with regard to homosexuality and children is when Flakey was asking people how they'd feel about their child seeing two men or women kissing. And I still maintain that there's absolutely nothing wrong with two people who love each other kissing or holding hands the same way anyone else does.

Please don't think I'm attacking you. I really am just trying to help you see what I think other people are taking issue with with your posts.

 

[Panacea]

I am shocked at your posts in this debate 1) I've seen and known you before to be open minded esp when it comes to behavioral/mental health stuffs. That with your background, i never thought that seemingly put someone down ( Flakey) and state or question her as to her being a pediatrician or child psychologist. I didn't understand why you would do such when you yourself don't have that degree.

Please stop talking about my background. I don't get why you do that all the time, or airing out their mental illnesses, it makes me uncomfortable. My education is not in homosexuality and children, so I don't come into this thread as an expert.

I don't think anyone should be saying anything but their opinion about this subject, because it does not appear there is clear evidence homosexuals walking around in public holding hands damages children. We can post facts about the behaviors of groups of people all day, but until causation is established, it just makes the group look like bad people, which is rude.

If anyone at all says "gays hurt children", I'm going to ask them how they know that, and how they are qualified to know. I was interested in her response, to see what exactly made her think the way she does. What's the big deal?

And I don't give two fucks what language the person speaks, it has no bearing on the thread subject. My boyfriend doesn't speak the best English in the world, I am used to overlooking grammatical errors that I can tell are a result of a language barrier. No issue. I can understand Flakey just fine. Her English is not that bad, her point comes across just fine.

I also don't care much if my asking someone to back up what they present as fact insults them. Someone would surely call my ass out if I did that, as they should. If it was framed wrong, and I misunderstood her, no big deal, the real problems in this thread didn't come in until you posted information you felt had causation without proof of causation. Flakey honestly seemed ok with the thread, and she answered my questions without seeming hurt or angry.

When someone signs up to a forum and posts around 10 threads in one hour, I get suspicious. One of those threads being a highly controversial topic, I get doubly suspicious. That suspicion has nothing to do with English trouble. I agreed with HK that the poster seemed suspicious. If someone wants to get really outraged by that, sorry :dunno

I also agree with Anathelia.

 

[Natasha]

I've just skimmed some posts but I don't remember anyone criticizing Flakey for poor English.

Oh...maybe I misunderstood but I thought he was talking about PD. *shrugs* I forget a lot of times that English isn't her first language b/c, to be honest, she speaks English very well.

 

[Panacea]

Oh...maybe I misunderstood but I thought he was talking about PD. *shrugs* I forget a lot of times that English isn't her first language b/c, to be honest, she speaks English very well.

Seriously, if I'm "jumping on someone for not having English as a first language" it's completely lost on me. I haven't had trouble understanding anyone, and if there's a misunderstanding that I can't see, it's easily cleared up.

 

[Niamh]

You like most people can have a conversation without re-affirming your sexual orientation every few minutes. That was my point. If someone casually mentions their significant other (PC Term) then that is one thing but bringing up your sexual preference constantly seems to give the impression that said orientation defines you.

You actually regularly have conversations with gay people who constantly say "I'm gay"? really?

 

[hart]

Fred I gotta agree w/Niamh on this one. Nope I haven't had one conversation with anyone that mentions their sexual orientation just out of the blue....

 

[Mystic]

Darrell....in your face....