What is your attitude to gays and lesbians?

[Francis]

Theese sites are non-religeous

Really, I think opposite and can prove it.. Again you did not do very good research as it took me 2 seconds to confirm these sources as not reliable..

Religious
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=528376 (2009)

AFN is a Christian news service - with more than 1,200 broadcast, print, and online affiliates in 45 states and 11 foreign countries - that exists to present the day's stories from a biblical perspective. We not only feature the latest breaking stories from across the United States and around the world, but also news of the challenges facing Christians in today's society.

Busted..
http://www.onenewsnow.com/general.aspx?id=1202 ( present )

http://curtis-cost.newsvine.com/_news/2010/12/23/5700410-doctor-says-no-gay-gene-has-been-found (2010)

Sorry but Custis Cost also believes HIV does not cause AIDs.. If you believe his "OPINION" you are sadly mistaken..

http://michael-balter.blogspot.com/2011/02/curtis-cost-danger-to-african-american.html ( 2011 )

And Dr Neil Whitehead states in his book and I quote "At least for homosexuality this book argues that the level of genetic influence could easily be as low as 10%, the balance of 90% coming from the environment." but that is only his opinion.. He is acknowledging as low 10% and not saying there is no genetic influence..

http://www.mygenes.co.nz/PDFs/Introduction.pdf

From his book
http://www.mygenes.co.nz/download.htm

Busted..

Also, i have already posted the link earlier in the thread but the APA no longer stands behind the Gay Gene theory.

Sorry again Doc, but I busted that theory back than and you never proved anything are are just rehashing old statements without proof..

Sorry Doc, but the article you refer to is from a heavivly bias religious web site.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/general.aspx?id=1202

I cannot find the APA it refers to at all and every report the APA are usually posted. And even at that it states only "There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation." which is a far cry from saying there is no Gay Gene.

http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...and-lesbians&p=2028347&viewfull=1#post2028347

Yes human beings are animals. But the difference between us and lab rats its tremendous. Rats have genes that give them tails. We dont. Thats 1 gene they have that we dont. Therefore they could have an extra gene that could make them gay, and we wouldent have it. Is that study only for Lab Rats? Have they dont this with other animals?

OK you have used that before and I let you get away with it but not today..

Human embryos have a tail that measures about one-sixth of the size of the embryo itself. As the embryo develops into a fetus, the tail is absorbed by the growing body. The developmental tail is thus a human vestigial structure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tail#cite_note-0

 

[retro]

Also, i have already posted the link earlier in the thread but the APA no longer stands behind the Gay Gene theory.

The APA also says that homosexuality is normal and shouldn't be "cured" via conversion therapy or any other such "treatments".

 

[rback33]

More owning of Doc. This is good stuff. And the lack of a tail comment is absurd. Humans still have what is left of one of those too... I am sitting on mine....

 

[Francis]

More owning of Doc. This is good stuff. And the lack of a tail comment is absurd. Humans still have what is left of one of those too... I am sitting on mine....

I will give him credit for being tenacious but very civil.

I don't expect him to change his mind over what we have discussed but if it can make him doubt and read up a bit more it will be his gain. I have learned a lot in this myself and the day I stop learning is the day they put me 6 feet under. Unfortunately for him I learned about even more ammunition to help me..

Who knows, perhaps in a few years he will be proved right but at this time it doesn't look good for his cause and besides it should not matter if a gene or a behaviour makes you a certain way. People are people and unless they hurt others they should be respected for who they are and not what they are.

The old saying, don't judge a book by it's sexual cover.. :24:

 

[The Doc]

No one owned anyone.

Rehashing old statements... if you dont believe me ill link the APA pamphlet and post where they say they no longer support the gay gene theory.

Thats cool that human embryos have tails... but you see live rats today have a gene which gives them a completely physical tail where humans dont have one. I wasnt trying to debate with you wheather we really did have tails. The point was to show rats are very physically different then humans, therefore they have different genes. I could fully believe that rats can be born homosexual. They are rats though. Were talking about humans.

For the record though francis, you have succesfully proved that rats could be born gay if genetically fucked with by scientists.

Also, about my links yes they might be christian but in this liberal media you wont find many people even bothering to report something like that. The facts in there still stand. From the scientific research to the APA's statement of no longer supporting the gay gene theory.

Im surprised retro isnt around negative repping me or posting in this thread. he hasnt negative repped me in a week. Im worried.

 

[Francis]

No one owned anyone.

Rehashing old statements... if you dont believe me ill link the APA pamphlet and post where they say they no longer support the gay gene theory.

Thats cool that human embryos have tails... but you see live rats today have a gene which gives them a completely physical tail where humans dont have one. I wasnt trying to debate with you wheather we really did have tails. The point was to show rats are very physically different then humans, therefore they have different genes. I could fully believe that rats can be born homosexual. They are rats though. Were talking about humans.

For the record though francis, you have succesfully proved that rats could be born gay if genetically fucked with by scientists.

Also, about my links yes they might be christian but in this liberal media you wont find many people even bothering to report something like that. The facts in there still stand. From the scientific research to the APA's statement of no longer supporting the gay gene theory.

Im surprised retro isnt around negative repping me or posting in this thread. he hasnt negative repped me in a week. Im worried.

People who say you were owned are just trying to get to you. Let it go you have proved to be better than that..

As for the APA, it has been bias and has had many views that have gone back and forth for many years.. The problem you face is finding consensus which you will not find. The reasons are simple when you mix people of religious belief and non-religious belief in one field.

As for the rats.. Cancer treatment for humans was proved in rats. Diabetes treatment was tested on and proven in rats for humans. Millions of cosmetics are tested for human consumption on rats daily.. So rats indeed play a big part of human life saving and preventing tools.

Full humans also keep their tails in some way. Just because they are no longer visible doesn't mean we do not have a reminisce of one showing that we did have one at one time. I would have thought you would have looked deeper into this but obviously you are running out of logic and are becoming more like those you claim you would never be like. I am sad for you.. In any case Human Adults have a Tail Bone from when they were an embryo called a coccyx..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccyx

Anyway, back to the Rats and fact that you keep saying it's not the same. OK you can't call a rat a man/woman but you can call a gene a gene. So we are comparing an Apple to an Apple as far as technical terms go. This is why Scientist use Rats for these types of tests. They could use Monkeys or Apes but people get all up and pissed off about the testing.. So rats make the best lab type animal to watch and understand.

As far as the APA again, you are rehashing the same things over and over. Again as I stated above the APA can and will be bias until 100% certainty is shown and this will bounce back and forth. The links you gave were bias and weighed heavily in favour of religion. The media, especially non-mainstream, could not careless about this subject because they are fine with gay rights. It's a non-issue for most of them and small items of "might" "could" and "in the future" do not interest them much. When a huge breakthrough happen it will make headlines for a day and life will go on.. Most regular media don't want to get involve in the same "might" "could" and "in the future" subjects so the only news organization I could locate myself was FOX News and a Canadian Newspaper.

You see for most Sexual preference is not an issue. Even the Catholic Church ( RC ) of Canada has given up trying to convert Gays and now quietly accepts them in their fold.. Funny how money, low attendance and reality that Gays have made no changes in the church life has made them transparent in the community. I understand that most others are doing exactly the same, bar the few completely opposed, of different religious belief.

No comment on your last statement.. I don't get into mud slinging and thought better of you.. You only reap what you throw..

 

[Peter Parka]

Still waiting to see how being gay is an illness. But I'm in for a long wait because it isn't. Truly shocking that this guy is a medic and has mistaken beliefs about a common fact like that.

 

[The Doc]

People who say you were owned are just trying to get to you. Let it go you have proved to be better than that..

As for the APA, it has been bias and has had many views that have gone back and forth for many years.. The problem you face is finding consensus which you will not find. The reasons are simple when you mix people of religious belief and non-religious belief in one field.

As for the rats.. Cancer treatment for humans was proved in rats. Diabetes treatment was tested on and proven in rats for humans. Millions of cosmetics are tested for human consumption on rats daily.. So rats indeed play a big part of human life saving and preventing tools.

Full humans also keep their tails in some way. Just because they are no longer visible doesn't mean we do not have a reminisce of one showing that we did have one at one time. I would have thought you would have looked deeper into this but obviously you are running out of logic and are becoming more like those you claim you would never be like. I am sad for you.. In any case Human Adults have a Tail Bone from when they were an embryo called a coccyx..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccyx

Anyway, back to the Rats and fact that you keep saying it's not the same. OK you can't call a rat a man/woman but you can call a gene a gene. So we are comparing an Apple to an Apple as far as technical terms go. This is why Scientist use Rats for these types of tests. They could use Monkeys or Apes but people get all up and pissed off about the testing.. So rats make the best lab type animal to watch and understand.

As far as the APA again, you are rehashing the same things over and over. Again as I stated above the APA can and will be bias until 100% certainty is shown and this will bounce back and forth. The links you gave were bias and weighed heavily in favour of religion. The media, especially non-mainstream, could not careless about this subject because they are fine with gay rights. It's a non-issue for most of them and small items of "might" "could" and "in the future" do not interest them much. When a huge breakthrough happen it will make headlines for a day and life will go on.. Most regular media don't want to get involve in the same "might" "could" and "in the future" subjects so the only news organization I could locate myself was FOX News and a Canadian Newspaper.

You see for most Sexual preference is not an issue. Even the Catholic Church ( RC ) of Canada has given up trying to convert Gays and now quietly accepts them in their fold.. Funny how money, low attendance and reality that Gays have made no changes in the church life has made them transparent in the community. I understand that most others are doing exactly the same, bar the few completely opposed, of different religious belief.

No comment on your last statement.. I don't get into mud slinging and thought better of you.. You only reap what you throw..

Oh francis, you know me im not trying to start a fight, just some sarcastic humor. I really am O so concerned. Its been 9 days since he last negative repped a post of mine. Im worried. Lol.

Seriously now though, your right. In no way did I really ever care about what the APA said, but someone on your side of the argument in an earlier post hyped and swore up and down they were the know all and end all subject matter experts. Therefore i pulled a quote of them saying they dont endorse the Gay gene theory.

About rats and tails, honestly i can change that to anything its not worth debating. The point of the argument was to show that a rat is a rat and a human is a human. Yes we do have similiar organs, and they are affected by the same illnesses as us and are very useful. At the end of the day though... they are rats.

Its been fun debating with you francis but we have come to a stalemate on the born gay thing. Due to no conclusive human genetic research there is no proof of being born Homosexual or not. Its worthless to argue this point any longer. Its like were trying to kill eachother with squirt guns. No ones going to die (Directly from the squirt guns atleast). You will post links about a gene being found, and I will post one of it being found inconclusive and we will go back and fourth. If you want to keep going with it though Im down, but its useless.

Another intresting point, how do you feel about aversion,conversion, and reparitive therapy? It has shown to work in changing sexual orientation in individuals. If someone can change sexuality that doesnt make sexuality so permanent then does it?

 

[Francis]

Oh francis, you know me im not trying to start a fight, just some sarcastic humor. I really am O so concerned. Its been 9 days since he last negative repped a post of mine. Im worried. Lol.

I had to laugh when I saw that line.. I though either he is being very sarcastic or he finally crossed over to the dark side.. Glad to see sarcasm has kicked in.. :thumbup

Seriously now though, your right. In no way did I really ever care about what the APA said, but someone on your side of the argument in an earlier post hyped and swore up and down they were the know all and end all subject matter experts. Therefore i pulled a quote of them saying they dont endorse the Gay gene theory.

About rats and tails, honestly i can change that to anything its not worth debating. The point of the argument was to show that a rat is a rat and a human is a human. Yes we do have similiar organs, and they are affected by the same illnesses as us and are very useful. At the end of the day though... they are rats.

Its been fun debating with you francis but we have come to a stalemate on the born gay thing. Due to no conclusive human genetic research there is no proof of being born Homosexual or not. Its worthless to argue this point any longer. Its like were trying to kill eachother with squirt guns. No ones going to die (Directly from the squirt guns atleast). You will post links about a gene being found, and I will post one of it being found inconclusive and we will go back and fourth. If you want to keep going with it though Im down, but its useless.

I am not sure if you saw my post where I said one day you might be proved right.. Science is not perfect but listen all I ask is that you keep an open mind and I will also. I believe my God being all forgiving, loving and no way will he tolerate any of his creatures ( including humans ) to be treated any other way. If you believe in a God of some kind do you honestly believe otherwise or do you believe he would hurt good people who did good all their lives and all they have bad in their lives was to be Gay. I don't want a part of a God who discriminates because he may not like White Single Fathers who did the best they could but got left aside from their wives.. Anyway I think you get my point..

Another intresting point, how do you feel about aversion,conversion, and reparitive therapy? It has shown to work in changing sexual orientation in individuals. If someone can change sexuality that doesnt make sexuality so permanent then does it?

[/QUOTE]

No I don't and even if homosexuality was a sickness ( which it's not today ) I don't think it's right to force people to do something contrary to their belief. It's also not right to exclude people for the same reasons we don't exclude or look down on drunks, drug addicts or gamblers. Each one of those can easily go back to their bad habits in seconds given the opportunity no matter what the treatment..

The next time you get the chance to ask your "Doctor" ask him what Heroin ( morphine ) does to the brain..

There is always a possibility of something, but who cares..

 

[dancingpotato]

Everyone to their own. What other people get up to is nothing to do with me, they aint hurting me.

 

[MainerMikeBrown]

My problem isn't with gays and lesbians. My problem is with some criminal who wants to break into my house and kill my family and myself.

I think a lot people who flat out hate gays were raped or molested by a dirtbag child sex offender. But most gays don't do such terrible things to kids, so please, stop the hatred!

 

[The Doc]

I had to laugh when I saw that line.. I though either he is being very sarcastic or he finally crossed over to the dark side.. Glad to see sarcasm has kicked in.. :thumbup



I am not sure if you saw my post where I said one day you might be proved right.. Science is not perfect but listen all I ask is that you keep an open mind and I will also. I believe my God being all forgiving, loving and no way will he tolerate any of his creatures ( including humans ) to be treated any other way. If you believe in a God of some kind do you honestly believe otherwise or do you believe he would hurt good people who did good all their lives and all they have bad in their lives was to be Gay. I don't want a part of a God who discriminates because he may not like White Single Fathers who did the best they could but got left aside from their wives.. Anyway I think you get my point..

No I don't and even if homosexuality was a sickness ( which it's not today ) I don't think it's right to force people to do something contrary to their belief. It's also not right to exclude people for the same reasons we don't exclude or look down on drunks, drug addicts or gamblers. Each one of those can easily go back to their bad habits in seconds given the opportunity no matter what the treatment..

The next time you get the chance to ask your "Doctor" ask him what Heroin ( morphine ) does to the brain..

There is always a possibility of something, but who cares..[/QUOTE]

Didnt even know you posted Homie. My bad. Heres the issue,again i dont want to become religeous but you brought up a point. You said you believe God is forgiving, which I believe too but you need to realize that certain rules are set forth. Within my belief being Homosexual is a sin. (Again this is not why I dislike homosexuals, nor do i use this to justify). God is forgiving but you must ask for forgiveness and be repentant for your sin. If a homosexual asks for forgiveness and is repantant he is forgiven. Asking for forgiveness and asking for repentance includes not abstaining in any more homosexual conduct. If you continue todo what u apologize for you werent really sorry. Doesnt matter how good of a person you percieve yourself. You donate every dollar to charity and volunteer all your free time to the needy, thats awesome but your still a non-repantant homosexual and no amount of charity will save you. Same goes for a man who repeatedly cheats on his wife. He can apologize all he wants, but if he continues to cheat on his wife he is not repantant. It doesnt matter how much charity or time he donates to the needy. That doesnt cancel out the fact he cheated on his wife.

My problem isn't with gays and lesbians. My problem is with some criminal who wants to break into my house and kill my family and myself.

I think a lot people who flat out hate gays were raped or molested by a dirtbag child sex offender. But most gays don't do such terrible things to kids, so please, stop the hatred!

Funny, i dont remember getting raped or molested. Nor do most soldiers in the US Army, who infact did not agree with the re-appeal of DADT. I remember reading a statistic that a significant amount of homosexual males were molested or sexually abused in child hood.

 

[rback33]

I love how religion and the Bible get brought into the anti gay debate...., I strongly suggest doing some research into Paul....

 

[darkcgi]

Making Christmas! Making Christmas!

 

[The Doc]

Hey I didnt bring it in here. I have stated so many times that I dislike homosexuals from a personal stand point. I do not use the bible to justify it. Also would like to state..

According to JAMA (Journal Of The American Medical Association) Literature The Sexual Abuse of Boys only 10-33% of Adolescant males will ever report being sexually abused. The study also found that abused male adolescants were 7 times more likely to identify as Gay or Bisexual later in life then their peers who had not been abused.

The following books also talk about young abuse victims who have sexual identity issues later in life.

The Consumer's Guide to Psychotherapy by Drs. Jack Engler and Daniel Goleman (NY: Simon & Schuster/Fireside, 1992), p. 414.
Desires in Conflict by Joe Dallas (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1991), p. 187.
Betrayal of Innocence by Dr. Susan Forward and Craig Buck (NY: Penguin Books, 1988), p. 96.
See also the magazine article "Does Physical Abuse, Sexual Abuse, or Neglect in Childhood Increase the Likelihood of Same-sex Sexual Relationships and Cohabitation? A Prospective 30-year Follow-up" by Helen Wilson and Cathy Widom in Archives of Sexual Behavior (January 7, 2009).

 

[MainerMikeBrown]

Back when I was in high school in the 90's, it was considered unacceptable in the minds of students and teachers to make racist remarks, and with good reason. However, if a student said something hateful about gays and lesbians, most of the teachers would do nothing. That's not right.

 

[The Doc]

Everyone i know describes things they dont like as gay.

Seargent: Were going to the field for 3 days
me: thats hella gay seargent..
Seargent: I know its fucking fagtastic, thank first seargent it was his idea

thats one example from today

 

[MainerMikeBrown]

Heterosexuals who think that being gay is somehow a choice need to wake up, because if they, for some reason, tried to become attracted members of their own gender, they wouldn't be able to do so.

Gays can't control how they feel about members of their own gender. And they couldn't become attracted to members of the opposite sex no matter how hard they tried.

 

[The Doc]

Heterosexuals who think that being gay is somehow a choice need to wake up, because if they, for some reason, tried to become attracted members of their own gender, they wouldn't be able to do so.

Gays can't control how they feel about members of their own gender. And they couldn't become attracted to members of the opposite sex no matter how hard they tried.

Really? I can give you so many stories of people who converted from gay to straight.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56487

This is just one. If you think its biased or anyhting let me know i can post 1,000 more stories of gay people turning straight. It works the other way around too, i have studies of people who enter prison straight and leave gay also. Just ask ill post. I do not believe being gay is a concious choice but more of an environmental factor which can be reversed

 

[BornReady]

Perhaps being gay is like any other preference. I learned to like salad because it's good for you. It took awhile but now I really like it. I tried to like lima beans but couldn't. I still eat them occasionally but I will never like them. Some gay men may be able to develop attraction to women. Others can not. But if you're happy and aren't hurting anyone then there is no point even trying to change who you are because some nosy religious guy wants to tell you who to have sex with.