Ways to prove God is imaginary

[Zorak]

(You know I never really thought about it before, but if Noah did take 2 of every animal on the ark with him, just think what that did to the bloodlines of all the Earth's creatures. There would be a distinct point in the mitochondrial DNA of every single species that shows that about 4, 5, 6 thousand years ago all the different species of animals came from one female of that species. That should be really easy to prove with todays science - then we could put this arguement to bed for all time.)

He didn't though

It's truely astonishing how many people believe it was 2 of every animal :O But Noah took :

"You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female;

Genesis 7:2 "You shall take with you of every clean animal by

 

[sharpies]

Ok, so it will only work with unclean animals (wonder why they just didn't bathe them? - have to insert a smiley here for those who think I am being serious ), still should be able to prove that whether the story is true or not.

Allan

 

[GraceAbounds]

wonder why they just didn't bathe them?
Allan

:24: Good one.

 

[Peter Parka]

Correct me if I'm wrong but according to the Bible, didn't Noah take in 6 or a dozen of some animals?

 

[GraceAbounds]

Yeah, I think Zorak pointed that out.

 

[Minor Axis]

Miracles of the Qur'an - Modern Science Reveals New Miracles of the Qur'an

A summary would have been better but thanks for the reference. I did find the area of the flood to be interesting. I thought the flood basically covered all of civilization.

Can anyone tell me what the Bible says about Noah's ark?

 

[Peter Parka]

A summary would have been better but thanks for the reference. I did find the area of the flood to be interesting. I thought the flood basically covered all of civilization.

Can anyone tell me what the Bible says about Noah's ark?

The Bible says the flood covered the globe.

 

[GraceAbounds]

The Bible says the flood covered the globe.

I have never read the word globe in the Bible. From personal studies, I don't know if the Bible is inferring the whole earth or the known earth at the time. But honestly it makes no difference which one it is as it is the moral lessons for our soul that are derived from the Bible that are key. Evil wants people to get caught up in meaningless details that divide so that the moral lessons (the big picture) is missed. That's how evil rolls.

 

[Peter Parka]

Genesis chapter 7

And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.

The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth, and the ark moved about on the surface of the waters. And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered.

 

[sharpies]

Makes heaps more sense when you read it out Pete!

Allan

 

[Minor Axis]

I have never read the word globe in the Bible. From personal studies, I don't know if the Bible is inferring the whole earth or the known earth at the time. But honestly it makes no difference which one it is as it is the moral lessons for our soul that are derived from the Bible that are key. Evil wants people to get caught up in meaningless details that divide so that the moral lessons (the big picture) is missed. That's how evil rolls.

Can I assume you are not a Bible-literalist then? I'll go on record as not placing any faith in the actuality of the great flood and Noah's ark if the Bible says that all of known civilization was flooded.

How many people were have supposed to have survived this flood?

In case anyone wants to debate. It would be good to know just how high the water got, how much water would have to fall to cover all of known civilization, and where would all that water go afterwards?

 

[GraceAbounds]

Can I assume you are not a Bible-literalist then?

I don't think I can really answer this question in the way you are meaning it.

So, see if you can follow me here. I believe that the Bible is literal in the fact that it was meant to say what it meant to say right then and there. In other words you can't make the Bible say and mean something it was never meant to say back then and then apply it to today. So, for example, if back then they believed that where they lived was the 'whole earth' because they had not discovered the rest of the earth, then that is what it was meant to say. See what I am saying? When reading the Bible, one really has to get into the time period, the culture, etc. etc. etc., then it has to be understood in the time period it was in and then played forward to today while being kept in context.

But regardless, as I've stated to argue that the flood took place in a part of the world or all of the world is for people to miss the lessons God has for us.

 

[Minor Axis]

But regardless, as I've stated to argue that the flood took place in a part of the world or all of the world is for people to miss the lessons God has for us.

Which sounds an awful lot like the Bible is full of moral laws, good ideas to live by, but not necessarily a factual history of the Earth.

 

[GraceAbounds]

Which sounds an awful lot like the Bible is full of moral laws

... instructions for life and a roadmap to God.

but not necessarily a factual history of the Earth.

The main purpose of the Bible is not for it to simply be a recount of history even though there are historical facts in it.

 

[pladecalvo]

As for Noah's Ark, I interpret the Bible my own way, and two of every animal will not fit on a boat. I believe that is some sort of a metaphor

So it's just your "personal interpretation" of your Bible that tells you what is true and what isn't? How about the Garden of Eden....is that true or "metaphor"?

 

[pladecalvo]

In case anyone wants to debate. It would be good to know just how high the water got, how much water would have to fall to cover all of known civilization, and where would all that water go afterwards?

Magic required for the flood to be literal


1. Rainfall rates of 30 feet per hour on every square foot of the Earth’s surface for a total of 960 hours (six weeks) non-stop

2. Four men and their wives building a ship larger than any wood ship ever known to exist – one and a half football fields long and as tall as a five story building --and gathering 2.8 million pounds of wood and hewing it into planks

3. All of the Earth’s plants surviving a year of being flooded with salt water and being buried by sedimentation and undergoing erosion, mountain building and continental upheaval

4. Vegetation regeneration atop newly deposited sedimentary rocks (no soil)

5. Animals from entire planet collected by eight people without transportation – including all microscopic animals that could not have been known to the people

6. Animals returned to diverse habitats worldwide by eight people without transportation (including very delicate animals)

7. Evolution of plants and animals more rapid than any ever proposed by science

8. Fresh water fish surviving a year in salt water

9. Continents being shoved apart by water pressure

10. Faulting being caused by water pressure

11. Earth’s mountains being built in a year

12. All sedimentary rocks deposited in a year

13. All major erosional features produced in the same year sediments were deposited

14. One hundred percent survival rate for pairs of animals for one year on ark – and successful repopulation of the Earth by each single pair of animals (when we know that in reality animals whose population declines to a few breeding pairs are very likely to go extinct)

15. Carry aboard the ark enough feed for all animals for a year (including carnivores and herbivores with very specific diets).

16. Environmental requirements being met for all animals with a crew of eight on the ark

17. Furnishing adequate climate control aboard an ark with millions of animals with a single 17.5 inch window

18. Repopulation of the Earth by humans beginning with less than one couple per every two continents

19. People living hundreds of years and producing children at advanced ages

20. Millions of cubic miles of water magically appearing, killing all animals (but magically not killing plants), then magically disappearing

21. Presence of a “water blanket” atmosphere pre-flood (though there were obviously people, animals, plants)

22. Claimed absence of rain pre-flood (even though humans and crops lived at the time)

If a few details were illogical, one might accept the tale as literal by excusing the errant details as mistakes. However, when the entire tale is one colossal illogical claim after another, it is unreasonable to claim that it is literately true.

Perhaps it is time to use the all-purpose “goddidit”?

 

[pladecalvo]

How many people were have supposed to have survived this flood?

8 people allegedly.

Interestingly....if only 8 people survived then every genetic disorder must have been present (or “miraculously evolved”). Here is a list of those disorders:

Achondroplasia
Achromatopsia
Acid Maltase Deficiency
Adrenoleukodystrophy
Aicardi Syndrome
Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency
Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome
Apert Syndrome
Arrhythmogenic Right Ventricular Dysplasia
Ataxia Telangiectasia
Barth Syndrome
Blue Rubber Bleb Nevus Syndrome
Canavan Disease
Cri Du Chat Syndrome
Cystic Fibrosis
Dercum's Disease
Ectodermal Dysplasia
Fanconi Anemia
Fibrodysplasia Ossificans Progressiva
Fragile X Syndrome
Galactosemia
Gaucher Disease
Hemochromatosis
Hemophilia
Huntington's Disease
Hurler Syndrome
Hypophosphatasia
Klinefelter Syndrome
Krabbes Disease
Langer-Giedion Syndrome
Leukodystrophy
Long QT Syndrome
Marfan Syndrome
Moebius Syndrome
Mucopolysaccharidosis (MPS)
Nail Patella Syndrome
Nephrogenic Diabetes Insipidus
Neurofibromatosis
Niemann-Pick Disease
Osteogenesis Imperfecta
Porphyria
Prader-Willi Syndrome
Progeria
Proteus Syndrome
Retinoblastoma
Rett Syndrome
Rubinstein-Taybi Syndrome
Sanfilippo Syndrome
Shwachman Syndrome
Sickle Cell Disease
Smith-Magenis Syndrome
Stickler Syndrome
Tay-Sachs Disease
Thrombocytopenia Absent Radius (TAR) Syndrome
Treacher Collins Syndrome
Trisomy
Tuberous Sclerosis
Turner's Syndrome
Urea Cycle Disorder
von Hippel-Lindau Disease
Waardenburg Syndrome
Williams Syndrome
Wilson's Disease

Since the Bible says that only 8 people survived this 'flood', all human genetic disorders must have descended from those 8, (or miraculously evolved).

 

[sharpies]

Perhaps it is time to use the all-purpose “goddidit”?

Maybe it's just me but you just had 2 posts that attempted to argue logically with people that believe in a/the god & that the Bible is his literal word (not so literal for some).

It seems to me that attempting to argue anything logically with people that believe in a supernatural being that is all powerful is a waste of time. These people have already thrown logic out the window, they do not care that it seems impossible - because they have faith that it is.

This is exactly why atheists will not win, because many look at the world logically & wonder why others don't - religious people close their eyes & pray for a/the god to show them the way.

Allan

 

[Minor Axis]

Pladecalvo, were you on vacation or what?

Maybe it's just me but you just had 2 posts that attempted to argue logically with people that believe in a/the god & that the Bible is his literal word (not so literal for some).

It seems to me that attempting to argue anything logically with people that believe in a supernatural being that is all powerful is a waste of time. These people have already thrown logic out the window, they do not care that it seems impossible - because they have faith that it is.

This is exactly why atheists will not win, because many look at the world logically & wonder why others don't - religious people close their eyes & pray for a/the god to show them the way.

Allan

I agree there is a gap between knowledge/science/logic regarding the known universe and faith in a higher power when all there is really to go on is faith and Holy books written thousands of years ago by people with very little scientific understanding trying to make sense of it all.

 

[pladecalvo]

Pladecalvo, were you on vacation or what?

Busy mate, time travelling in distant galaxies...you know how it is!