Violence in Movies

[dkwrtw]

We studied Agression in Psychology and briefly touched on agression in the media and it's effects on people, and what struck me as interesting was that American studies tended to point to violent movies causing people to act agressively, whilst UK research tended shows the opposite (agressive movies having little or no effect). I don't know if our text book and the documentry we watched to accompany it, was being deliberately biased in the research it selected but I did think it was odd that the research was so polarised.

And on top of that, some of them were pretty poor studies on both sides.

you see what I mean those studies are worthless, I put no stock in them.

 

[retro]

All of these "studies" claiming that watching violent movies or playing violent video games causes normal people to act out that type of violence are bullshit. Sure, for every 10,000 people that watch Hostel or play GTA IV, there are probably a few crazies out there that think that it's okay to do those types of things, but that doesn't speak for the populace at large.

What I do get a kick out of though, is that we have all kinds of violent movies and television shows out there. Jack Bauer can kill 11ty billion terrorists in a one-hour episode of 24 and nobody blinks an eye. But we see part of Janet Jackson's wholly unattractive boob, and the world ends and there all kinds of protests, fines, and who knows what else in response. Americans are afraid of sex and act like it's this horrible thing... yay for the American Taliban.

 

[dkwrtw]

Reps for that Retro!

 

[SouthernGirl]

Interesting subject, I suppose. Violent movies never make me replicate what they're portraying, although I'll admit they do give me some damn good ideas for plans I already had in place.

Regarding studies. I have a psych degree, and studying studies while in school about drove me bonkers. Typically, every single study you see ends up proving whatever the developer was trying to prove. That shows bias to me, across the board.

When it comes to children imitating what they see in movies and/or on video games - well that comes down to age appropriate ratings and whatnot - not to mention parental guidance. If I'm watching a slasher movie, I'm not going to have my 7 year old in the room with me, but that's more because I don't want him to have nightmares - not so much that I'm concerned I'll wake up in the night to him hacking my head off.

American interpretation of just about everything has begun to get ridiculous. It seems "the powers that be" are always trying to find someone or something to blame, when the plain fact is people who kill people do it because they choose to, in the vast majority of cases. People who are fat ain't fat cause Mickey D's made them that way - they chose to eat 10 cheeseburgers. And so on. I get really tired of all the he said she said crap which almost always leads to attempts at censorship or suppression of rights.

 

[dkwrtw]

Interesting subject, I suppose. Violent movies never make me replicate what they're portraying, although I'll admit they do give me some damn good ideas for plans I already had in place.

Regarding studies. I have a psych degree, and studying studies while in school about drove me bonkers. Typically, every single study you see ends up proving whatever the developer was trying to prove. That shows bias to me, across the board.

When it comes to children imitating what they see in movies and/or on video games - well that comes down to age appropriate ratings and whatnot - not to mention parental guidance. If I'm watching a slasher movie, I'm not going to have my 7 year old in the room with me, but that's more because I don't want him to have nightmares - not so much that I'm concerned I'll wake up in the night to him hacking my head off.

American interpretation of just about everything has begun to get ridiculous. It seems "the powers that be" are always trying to find someone or something to blame, when the plain fact is people who kill people do it because they choose to, in the vast majority of cases. People who are fat ain't fat cause Mickey D's made them that way - they chose to eat 10 cheeseburgers. And so on. I get really tired of all the he said she said crap which almost always leads to attempts at censorship or suppression of rights.

Great post and well put, you will almost NEVER find a study that doesn't "Prove" the "studier's" point.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

I was just reading reviews for one of my personal favorite Horror Films and one person had this to say about it:


"I'm honestly convinced that this is the type of trash that causes mentally unstable and/or easily influenced people to go berserk and do all sorts of crazy stuff."


And it got me thinking, do any of you guys think there's any truth to that statement, can violence in movies/television/Video Games really be blamed for the actions of these maniacs? I personally think that we're all responsible for our own actions and that to blame the media or the parents or society or anything else for these actions is just an excuse to alleviate personal responsibility, I'm curious, what do you guys think about this?

I do agree. Humans and many other animals learn by observing other members of their species (observational learning). I think that what studies about this say is that the people who watch them are more likely to be violent or conflict with others. But a lot of studies might not consider the possibility that other factors can cause it as well, so like the environment a person grows up in (are they a product of their surroundings?).
The media is a pretty powerful influence, some people let their lives be dictated by what they see on the idiot box. Even if some studies have been so shit enough to not prove anything about this, in my opinion, I think it's obvious that people can imitate shit on TV, if not for the wise adult, it's probably more likely to affect younger people/children.

 

[dkwrtw]

I do agree. Humans and many other animals learn by observing other members of their species (observational learning). I think that what studies about this say is that the people who watch them are more likely to be violent or conflict with others. But a lot of studies might not consider the possibility that other factors can cause it as well, so like the environment a person grows up in (are they a product of their surroundings?).
The media is a pretty powerful influence, some people let their lives be dictated by what they see on the idiot box. Even if some studies have been so shit enough to not prove anything about this, in my opinion, I think it's obvious that people can imitate shit on TV, if not for the wise adult, it's probably more likely to affect younger people/children.

Oh god, not the "product of their environment" bullshit, that is just a convenient excuse for someone who grew up in a poor or violent area to do whatever they want and not take the blame for their own actions, I grew up in the middle of fucking nowhere in the backwoods, about 10 Miles away from the biggest Meeting place for the KKK in the State of Oregon, where most of the people are driving around drunk every day like it's no big deal, and had drug dealers and drug addicts for neighbors, yet am I a racist? Do I drive drunk? Do I cook Meth for a living? NO I don't, because I'm not fucking retarded and I have the common sense not to do these things, even though everyone I grew up around was doing it, people are responsible for the choices they make Kimmy, you can't blame the TV they watch, you can't blame the people they hang out with, you can't blame their parents, the blame for their actions lies solely with them and ONLY them.

 

[edgray]

Oh god, not the "product of their environment" bullshit, that is just a convenient excuse for someone who grew up in a poor or violent area to do whatever they want and not take the blame for their own actions, I grew up in the middle of fucking nowhere in the backwoods, about 10 Miles away from the biggest Meeting place for the KKK in the State of Oregon, where most of the people are driving around drunk every day like it's no big deal, and had drug dealers and drug addicts for neighbors, yet am I a racist? Do I drive drunk? Do I cook Meth for a living? NO I don't, because I'm not fucking retarded and I have the common sense not to do these things, even though everyone I grew up around was doing it, people are responsible for the choices they make Kimmy, you can't blame the TV they watch, you can't blame the people they hang out with, you can't blame their parents, the blame for their actions lies solely with them and ONLY them.

Whilst I agree that people should take responsibility for their actions, it is clear that we are massively environmentally conditioned. Our genes give us a blueprint of basic dispositions, and our environment dictates how those dispositions come out.

The human genome project is a fascinating one. They found that the same gene that would make a politician thirst for power, is the very same gene that would make a house-burglar get their kicks from breaking and entering. It's only the environment they grew up in that determines how that particular gene makes them behave.

If you were taken as baby, for example, and raised by amazonian tribes folk, you'd grow up with their belief set, not those of US society. Proximity to bad things happening I would say could go either of way, you could take on your local belief set, or you could rise above it, but something somewhere in part made that choice for you, be it your parents, a role model on TV, a teacher, a relative, your friends.

We're all a product of something until we mature.

 

[ATKU2]

My personal opinion is this (even though I'm not entirely sure what this thread about cause I didn't read it all)...

My personal opinion is that people should be responsible for their own actions...
Same thing goes for peer pressure and other stupid sh*t...
If you kill someone, then you screwed up for sure and you need to take the price you should pay for your action.

You can't blame situations on videos, games, or other people... it's all about what you choose.
If you choose to do something wrong, then you're the person to blame.

 

[dkwrtw]

Whilst I agree that people should take responsibility for their actions, it is clear that we are massively environmentally conditioned. Our genes give us a blueprint of basic dispositions, and our environment dictates how those dispositions come out.

The human genome project is a fascinating one. They found that the same gene that would make a politician thirst for power, is the very same gene that would make a house-burglar get their kicks from breaking and entering. It's only the environment they grew up in that determines how that particular gene makes them behave.

If you were taken as baby, for example, and raised by amazonian tribes folk, you'd grow up with their belief set, not those of US society. Proximity to bad things happening I would say could go either of way, you could take on your local belief set, or you could rise above it, but something somewhere in part made that choice for you, be it your parents, a role model on TV, a teacher, a relative, your friends.

We're all a product of something until we mature.

Again Ed I must call bullshit, nobody can FORCE you to believe a certain way, My father is a devout Christian and would take me and my brothers to church on every Sunday and Wednesday for years and years, yet I am not religious, I actually read most of the bible and determined that it simply isn't true, I was born and raised in the United States of America yet I do NOT Believe in Democracy, people can try to instill a certain set of beliefs in you but in the end it's YOU who decides whether to embrace or reject these beliefs.

 

[edgray]

Again Ed I must call bullshit, nobody can FORCE you to believe a certain way, My father is a devout Christian and would take me and my brothers to church on every Sunday and Wednesday for years and years, yet I am not religious, I actually read most of the bible and determined that it simply isn't true, I was born and raised in the United States of America yet I do NOT Believe in Democracy, people can try to instill a certain set of beliefs in you but in the end it's YOU who decides whether to embrace or reject these beliefs.

Of course, but your father being a devout Christian has just answered as to why you're not drink driving like your fellow locals. I never mentioned force, nothing is forced. It's a process that takes the whole of your childhood.

You're misunderstanding what a belief set can consist of. It's very varied, and isn't just limited to politics or religion. You are no doubt a consumer, watch TV, and exhibit many other traits similar to your fellow Americans. Obviously there will be differences. The general belief systems that you inherit are very broad.

Take an example of the differences between the US & UK.

In Britain, our right-wing politicians are your left-wing or centrist politicians. This isn't something that's thought about, it's simply the way we were all raised. What you guys call extreme left-wing politicians over in Europe are considered centrist, like Obama, for example.

This is due to our environmental conditioning. It's nothing talked about, or thought about, nothing discussed, just the result of our societies upon us. We have a different outlook, and it's nothing to do with our genes, or our conscious thought, it's just the nature of our environments.

The point being, that if you had been raised in the rain forrest, you would share that society's basic sets of beliefs. You would speak their language, for example, you would enjoy the local food, you would enjoy the local music and the local stories. Your society would build your reference points upon which your own personal opinions are based.

 

[dkwrtw]

Of course, but your father being a devout Christian has just answered as to why you're not drink driving like your fellow locals. I never mentioned force, nothing is forced. It's a process that takes the whole of your childhood.

You're misunderstanding what a belief set can consist of. It's very varied, and isn't just limited to politics or religion. You are no doubt a consumer, watch TV, and exhibit many other traits similar to your fellow Americans. Obviously there will be differences. The general belief systems that you inherit are very broad.

Take an example of the differences between the US & UK.

In Britain, our right-wing politicians are your left-wing or centrist politicians. This isn't something that's thought about, it's simply the way we were all raised. What you guys call extreme left-wing politicians over in Europe are considered centrist, like Obama, for example.

This is due to our environmental conditioning. It's nothing talked about, or thought about, nothing discussed, just the result of our societies upon us. We have a different outlook, and it's nothing to do with our genes, or our conscious thought, it's just the nature of our environments.

The point being, that if you had been raised in the rain forrest, you would share that society's basic sets of beliefs. You would speak their language, for example, you would enjoy the local food, you would enjoy the local music and the local stories. Your society would build your reference points upon which your own personal opinions are based.

Brother you know not what you're talking about, don't presume to know anything about my family or who raised me, my father Has a Felony DUI in his past and my mother drinks and drives on a daily basis, if I were to emulate my parents I would be a chain smoking Alcoholic right now and would probably be dead for having drunken driven off the road or into another vehicle, I don't do these things because I use my fucking HEAD and know better than to do it, Alcololism and drug abuse runs in my family, yet I am neither an alcoholic or a drug addict, not because I was raised against these things, but because I am not stupid enough to get hooked on them, my father is also one of the most racist people I know, he uses the "N" word on almost a daily basis yet I am not racist, even though I was raised to be one, as I said before as well I WAS raised out in the middle of nowhere, where everyone listened to the same type of music, yet I do not, I despise it, always have since the first time I ever listened to it,, almost all of my friends drink, do drugs and smoke cigarretes and try to get me to do these things with them, but I don't, in all seriousness I would probably be dead right now if I shared the same beliefs and habits with my Friends, family and Neighbors.

 

[retro]

Brother you know not what you're talking about, don't presume to know anything about my family or who raised me, my father Has a Felony DUI in his past and my mother drinks and drives on a daily basis, if I were to emulate my parents I would be a chain smoking Alcoholic right now and would probably be dead for having drunken driven off the road or into another vehicle, I don't do these things because I use my fucking HEAD and know better than to do it, Alcololism and drug abuse runs in my family, yet I am neither an alcoholic or a drug addict, not because I was raised against these things, but because I am not stupid enough to get hooked on them, my father is also one of the most racist people I know, he uses the "N" word on almost a daily basis yet I am not racist, even though I was raised to be one, as I said before as well I WAS raised out in the middle of nowhere, where everyone listened to the same type of music, yet I do not, I despise it, always have since the first time I ever listened to it,, almost all of my friends drink, do drugs and smoke cigarretes and try to get me to do these things with them, but I don't, in all seriousness I would probably be dead right now if I shared the same beliefs and habits with my Friends, family and Neighbors.

Now Ed will just say that your parents behavior conditioned you to behave differently.

 

[dkwrtw]

Now Ed will just say that your parents behavior conditioned you to behave differently.

I think you're right Retro and I think it's time to end this debate, I won't waste any more of my time arguing with someone who won't listen to reason.

*unsubscribes from thread*

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

When I say 'product of their surroundings', it could be anything really. For example, my dad abused my mother. My brother being young, but old enough to keep a memory of it at the time, could be influenced by this. In fact, so many times when he's become angry at me and my sister he acts almost in the same way my father would on my mum with his stand-offish crap ways.

You don't HAVE to turn out the same. It's just that people who are subjected to crap environments are MORE LIKELY to turn out influenced by them. How can you say that the place you live in, with everything that surrounds you, doesn't shape you at all? I'm pretty sure everybody's life would be different if at some stages, we made a different decision or weren't exposed to something.

(Bringing what I know into this) being a psychologist even, you should consider environmental factors that affect people. For those psychologists that care about what causes someone's problematic behaviour, how can you dismiss their environment? That's like dismissing everything around the person...everything almost...

Yes some of us are blessed with brains and don't always turn out according to what people would expect (like you said, you're not a Christian). But that's only one thing. There will be something in your life in your environment that has changed you. Maybe it was the fact that you even attended church that makes you hate it. There's usually something behind everything.

I can think of an example...you know that boy that they found a couple of hundred years ago in the forest? Some guy asked another dude to try and assimilate him into society but they couldn't. The boy couldn't learn much and was quite aggressive. Because he wasn't raised by humans. You know, conditioning is strong.

Nobody forces you to believe anything but you're more likely to if some figure of authority does. People do have a choice in anything, but that doesn't mean their choice isn't shaped/caused by anything. You aren't just born the way you are. If you don't believe in some form of determinism (i.e., you don't believe that things are caused) then acts just happen out of nowhere. Where's your choice now?

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

I think you're right Retro and I think it's time to end this debate, I won't waste any more of my time arguing with someone who won't listen to reason.

*unsubscribes from thread*

No offense, but it's more unreasonable that you ignore what some people have to say, especially in your own thread. I don't know, you seem a little afraid to be proven wrong, self-sealing and trying to come across as infallible? You don't have to leave. Everyone has shared something valuable in this thread.

 

[dkwrtw]

Read Your Rep Kimmy, I explained why I'm leaving this thread and it's not because I'm afraid of being proven wrong, I am not infallible nor have I ever claimed to be, this argument has dragged on long enough and is just getting repetitive and boring from all sides including myself, we've all said what we had to say and at this point we're just repeating the same things over and again, I see no reason to continue with this.

 

[dkwrtw]

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

I am not infallible nor have I ever claimed to be

Again I must call bullshit.

Come again?

If you want to leave then that's okay. Me and others will debate it.

 

[dkwrtw]

Calling Bullshit doesn't make me infallible Kimmy, now as I said there's nothing left to debate in here, if you want to continue bickering then by all means bicker