UAW workers paid $75 an hour!!!

[Alien Allen]

Did I call it or what?

Seems like Unions always looked at the now and could care less about the future. Being from Detroit area the non union people hated the UAW. The UAW is guilty of greed as much as the Big 3 themselves.

The spin off at least in my area is that the union greed filtered down to all the small companies. Because the UAW got the higher wages and benefits other companies were expected to do the same.

 

[Fox Mulder]

From what you say , you are a part of the problem . You enjoy too much pay , and need your benefits cut drastically .
Its people like you , making all that money and benefits --that is ruining the auto industry !.
Hope they cut you back to min wage , or better yet , as Mulder would prefer --less !.
Whatever event that happened 20 years ago , I cant imagine . :confused >f

Hell, I don't want anyone's pay to get cut to less than they are worth--which is what the market will bear. If you can obtain job skills so that your employer pays you well, more power to you. But this fucking bullshit of the government giving union thugs an unfair bargaining advantage is nothing short of communism. Any person that has ever worked in a union has earned more at the expense of others. Does it square well in your world Hoffa that for you to get more pay and benefits other people have to suffer less pay and benefits and in many cases the loss of their jobs completey? Because that's what happens--this ain't no fucking communist country---this is a free market economy driven by the laws of economics. If you're wages are artificially increased, someone else's wages are decreased. Now that may sit well with you when your the one getting the increase but it doesn't sit well with anyone concerned with fairness. If you want to make more money, there are plenty of fair opportunities to do so. Relying on a corrupt system of extorting employers is not the way. I think we can all see what's been done to GM, Ford, and Chrysler--good companies brought to the brink of bankruptcy by unions. People have lost huge and society has lost huge because of union extortion.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Seems like Unions always looked at the now and could care less about the future. Being from Detroit area the non union people hated the UAW. The UAW is guilty of greed as much as the Big 3 themselves.

The spin off at least in my area is that the union greed filtered down to all the small companies. Because the UAW got the higher wages and benefits other companies were expected to do the same.

Which is why Detroit died as a city and has had the worst economy in the country for decades now. You people there suffer a bad economy because the artificial increase in wages on such a large scale causes a ripple effect through the economy. Businesses are forced to move to other states and those that can't go out of business. Detroit is an execellent example of what the US economy would look like if Unions controlled as high a percentage of the job market as they do in Detroit.

Seriously--look at any big city controlled by Democrats and its the same--union corruption, a failing economy, and a crumbling infrastructure. Then look at larger cities controlled by Republicans (not near as many) but they are in far better economic shape.

 

[Minor Axis]

That's for new employees under the new contract. The average by your own source is $73 to $75 an hour--and that's a fucking average for Godsakes. So there are employees making less and making more--but as stated, none of them are worth anywhere close to that.

It's been said in these forums by others, and the article I quoted, the $75 per hour includes total benefits, not a per hour wage pay. :smiley24:

 

[Fox Mulder]

It's been said in these forums by others, and the article I quoted, the $75 per hour includes total benefits, not a per hour wage pay. :smiley24:

I understand. But to compare apples to apples you need to compare salary and benefits because that's the actual cost to the employer. If one employer pays $30 an hour and no benefits after retirement, that is a lot less than one that pays $30 an hour with lifetime medical. The only way to compare accurately is to compare total cost.

 

[SgtSpike]

Which is why Detroit died as a city and has had the worst economy in the country for decades now. You people there suffer a bad economy because the artificial increase in wages on such a large scale causes a ripple effect through the economy. Businesses are forced to move to other states and those that can't go out of business. Detroit is an execellent example of what the US economy would look like if Unions controlled as high a percentage of the job market as they do in Detroit.

Seriously--look at any big city controlled by Democrats and its the same--union corruption, a failing economy, and a crumbling infrastructure. Then look at larger cities controlled by Republicans (not near as many) but they are in far better economic shape.

Good point. :thumbup

BTW, I'm curious, what is the largest city that is NOT controlled by Dems? The largest cities in the US are LA and New York as far as I know, and those are both controlled by Dems as far as I know.

 

[Alien Allen]

Detroit has been democrat since 1961

even could argue as far back as 1957 as the mayor declared he was an independent

some would there is a pattern here given the steady decline of the city starting in the late 50's

 

[Strauss]

Well you got nice casinos and the river is real straight.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Good point. :thumbup

BTW, I'm curious, what is the largest city that is NOT controlled by Dems? The largest cities in the US are LA and New York as far as I know, and those are both controlled by Dems as far as I know.

Probably a Texas City like Dallas or San Antonio (although not sure who controls the big Texas Cities). If not those, then certainly Salt Lake City in Utah, which is controlled by Repubicans--of course the whole state is as is Texas. And that's why Texas has the best economy in the country by far--low cost of living and lots of jobs because its completely controlled by Republicans. Democrats destroy the economy if they are permitted--they have since the Carter days. People point to Clinton, but Clinto had a Republican Congress and he himself was moderate and not your typical whack job liberal that's in charge now.

 

[skyblue]

put this into perspective.......is this money across the board?.....is it management?.....or is it an average of the salery of all the employees?

now going buy mr mulders original post i take it he thinks bolting things onto a car on a track is an easy life...think again.....its one of the most boring and stressful things you can imagine.....put yourself in the position of the average assembly worker,you have perhaps 90 seconds to do your job on every car....now you are already rushed off your feet with this then the company says they're upping the trackspeed by 3 cars an hour,not alot you might think,well if your struggling anyway its a nightmare......then take into consideration the rigours of the job,you might be putting the carpets in for instance,so its not long before you suffer from back problems.......or you might be under the suspended car doing something underneath,neck problems?.......its not the easy life some would imagine it to be

 

[Strauss]

put this into perspective.......is this money across the board?.....is it management?.....or is it an average of the salery of all the employees?

now going buy mr mulders original post i take it he thinks bolting things onto a car on a track is an easy life...think again.....its one of the most boring and stressful things you can imagine.....put yourself in the position of the average assembly worker,you have perhaps 90 seconds to do your job on every car....now you are already rushed off your feet with this then the company says they're upping the trackspeed by 3 cars an hour,not alot you might think,well if your struggling anyway its a nightmare......then take into consideration the rigours of the job,you might be putting the carpets in for instance,so its not long before you suffer from back problems.......or you might be under the suspended car doing something underneath,neck problems?.......its not the easy life some would imagine it to be

I don't recall anyone saying its an easy life. But, then again, no one is forcing you to do it.

 

[Alien Allen]

Well you got nice casinos and the river is real straight.

yeah and canada is south of us too

 

[Strauss]

yeah and canada is south of us too

When I stay at the GM Headquarters I always ask the young lady at the check-in counter to give me a room with a view of the river and Canada. I usually can see the Caesar's Palace casino across the river. One of these days I'm going to take the water taxi across that river.

 

[skyblue]

I don't recall anyone saying its an easy life. But, then again, no one is forcing you to do it.

an argument i've heard many times

 

[Fox Mulder]

put this into perspective.......is this money across the board?.....is it management?.....or is it an average of the salery of all the employees?

now going buy mr mulders original post i take it he thinks bolting things onto a car on a track is an easy life...think again.....its one of the most boring and stressful things you can imagine.....put yourself in the position of the average assembly worker,you have perhaps 90 seconds to do your job on every car....now you are already rushed off your feet with this then the company says they're upping the trackspeed by 3 cars an hour,not alot you might think,well if your struggling anyway its a nightmare......then take into consideration the rigours of the job,you might be putting the carpets in for instance,so its not long before you suffer from back problems.......or you might be under the suspended car doing something underneath,neck problems?.......its not the easy life some would imagine it to be

You are missing the point entirely--there are millions of jobs that aren't easy. The economy (economics) works on very precise rules (like physics)--higher skilled jobs are paid more. Socialist and liberals always whine about fairness to the worker, which we all fucking agree with. I don't agree with people dying of cancer, but I can't change it by legislation. You can't increase the level of pay for low skilled jobs by legislation because all you will do is cause a corresponding increase in the cost of living--no one can ever get a real raise artificially EXCEPT in a union. But the only reason it works in a union is because its a relatively small slice of the work force. But it still results in unfairness to other workers and the public in general--someone pays for that artificial increase in pay--usually the non-union employees and the public pays a higher cost for a product service.

My point is that union people don't understand (or won't accept) the economic effect of a union. The reason Detroit is a dying city and the auto industry is in such deep financial trouble is because of the artificially high wages for a large portion of the workforce there--it causes an increase in the goods and services in Detroit--companies move out, the city loses job, its a vicious cycle--the citizens of Detroit and Michigan have been paying the price for the UAW in Detroit for decades now.

 

[Fox Mulder]

When I stay at the GM Headquarters I always ask the young lady at the check-in counter to give me a room with a view of the river and Canada. I usually can see the Caesar's Palace casino across the river. One of these days I'm going to take the water taxi across that river.

Don't tell Alien Allen when you plan to do it--that ferry will never make it accross!!! :24:

 

[Fox Mulder]

an argument i've heard many times

And I've hear the argument many times about fair wages and living wages and I absolutel agree with the principle of it. However, it can't be done artificially--you can't force it by legislation or unions. You can only do it by obtaining more job skills to make yourself worth more. We can go through the economics but trust me it is as impossible to legislate a fair wage as it is to legislate away cancer or some other incurable disease. People really have to understand that to make intelligent decisions because the villainization of the employers and the corporations is killing the economies in many countries, including the US.

 

[Alien Allen]

When I stay at the GM Headquarters I always ask the young lady at the check-in counter to give me a room with a view of the river and Canada. I usually can see the Caesar's Palace casino across the river. One of these days I'm going to take the water taxi across that river.

just try walking across if it is the winter

We went thru this water taxi thing before didn't we??

never seen one advertised

bet they are Detroit River pirates

 

[Strauss]

an argument i've heard many times

Apparently you confuse fact with argument. Or is it your position that assembly workers have no choice but to work on the assembly line.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Apparently you confuse fact with argument. Or is it your position that assembly workers have no choice but to work on the assembly line.

The point I think he's making is--"someone has to do that work, we can't all be carpenters and electricians, and accoutants and doctors, etc." And of course that's true--its just one of life's unfairnesses that will never be corrected in a free market economy. Its the reason that people like Lennin and liberals think a communist economy is fairer. Well it is in the sense that everyone is a lot more equal and a lot more miserable. And liberals are forever attempting to bastardize capitalism in the mistaken belief that you can feed socialism off of capitalism (because the former has no prayer of surviving alone). Problem is that inevitably they destroy the economy in the process of trying to come up with social justice, which is an unnattainable goal (and its human nature that does that, not the economic system).