U.S. and Iraq are officially winning:

[IntruderLS1]

Grace is right.

 

[Zorak]

If this Administration has done one thing well, it's selling a shame war to the American public. Course I don't know how much work that really takes with the low threshold of acceptance there appears to be in this country. My understanding is that support of the war is no longer 50% as it has dragged on for much to long.

I'm not sure if we should still even call it a war.

It's a prolonged military occupation.

I actually find it surprising the right wing support the war so vehemently, because it's costing American lives and money at the expense of other people :24:

 

[Minor Axis]

I actually find it surprising the right wing support the war so vehemently, because it's costing American lives and money at the expense of other people :24:

This is how it works in general terms- your party= your values (no taxes? guns? abortion? religion? down with labor? up with corporations?). Once your party is in power, they can screw everything up, they can go start predatory wars and you as a party member are still going to support them because no matter how screwed up they are, no matter how many lies they tell, they share your values so eventually things will get straightened out and your party with your values will still be in power. I just wish our religious forum readers would realize that when it comes to religion, the current Administration and most of the Republican party with their Christian values are charlatans. Just how the heck are Christians supposed to act- Love? Forgive? Be generous? Be understanding? Be tolerant? Instead the conservative Republican party acts like a pack of attack dogs.

 

[nTejas]

Hmmmm, I guess that is why record numbers of citizens voted in the elections then, eh? Their actions, their risking their life to get to the poles, doesn't look like it is being forced to me. It is what they want.

Why, because the U.S. destroyed the Iraqi country......plus it's not hard to beat record number of voters when the country never voted to begin with.

My point is democracy has to come from the people......not from bombs of another country.

 

[GraceAbounds]

There was a 60 to 70% voter turnout despite that they were risking their lives going to the polls. My point is that democracy IS coming from the people and not from bombs of another country. Bombs can't vote.

 

[nTejas]

There was a 60 to 70% voter turnout despite that they were risking their lives going to the polls. My point is that democracy IS coming from the people and not from bombs of another country. Bombs can't vote.

Democracy in Iraq is coming from the US. The officials on the ballots are selected by the US. The people of Iraq did NOT bring about democracy from their own actions. That's why it is an artificial democracy that has no real power.

 

[GraceAbounds]

Democracy in Iraq is coming from the US. The officials on the ballots are selected by the US. The people of Iraq did NOT bring about democracy from their own actions. That's why it is an artificial democracy that has no real power.

The US is helping to bring about democracy, yes, but it would not work if the Iraqi people did not want it as well, which they do as shown by their voter turn out.

 

[nTejas]

The US is helping to bring about democracy, yes, but it would not work if the Iraqi people did not want it as well, which they do as shown by their voter turn out.

The US is helping themselves to the OIL...........and trying to convert the Iraqi people to democracy. What other choice do the Iraqi people have at this point. Their country is destroyed........what makes you think that democracy in Iraq is working?.........because you saw some of the Iraqi people on TV and in magazines with blue thumbs?.....because some people went and stood in a line and voted for candidates who were not chosen by the people of Iraq?

 

[Minor Axis]

The US is helping themselves to the OIL...........and trying to convert the Iraqi people to democracy. What other choice do the Iraqi people have at this point. Their country is destroyed........what makes you think that democracy in Iraq is working?.........because you saw some of the Iraqi people on TV and in magazines with blue thumbs?.....because some people went and stood in a line and voted for candidates who were not chosen by the people of Iraq?

Because the Republican party desperately wants American's to think the Iraq war was the best decision of last 40 years. Who cares if we go broke in the process, let freedom shine.

 

[GraceAbounds]

The US is helping themselves to the OIL...........and trying to convert the Iraqi people to democracy. What other choice do the Iraqi people have at this point. Their country is destroyed........what makes you think that democracy in Iraq is working?.........because you saw some of the Iraqi people on TV and in magazines with blue thumbs?.....because some people went and stood in a line and voted for candidates who were not chosen by the people of Iraq?

The reason I know it is working is because I volunteer in a VA Hospital every week and I talk to VETS on a consistent basis, veterans who have been there and who are going back there and they tell me that democracy is what the Iraqi people want.

I hold the veterans that I have spoken with and served and their first hand experiences in much higher regard than the the TV and the magazines you speak of.

Negativity sells. Truth is the narrow road.

 

[Peter Parka]

Long story short. No, I am not buying whatever the administration says and neither is the other half of the country that supports the war.

I remember vividly when it all went down (9/11). I remember what happened, what was going on at the time, and what we knew to be true and what our intel believed to be true by both political sides. Based on what we knew to be true, I supported the war. During the course of this war, it has been executed horribly at times, but I'm not going to pretend like I could have done any better. I do believe however that McCain could have, but that is neither here nor there.

I am not disregarding any facts that I know of nor have I lost touch with reality because I have a different perspective on the current Iraq war. I support the war.

9/11 had absolutely nothing to do with Iraq.

 

[ssl]

The US is helping themselves to the OIL...........and trying to convert the Iraqi people to democracy. What other choice do the Iraqi people have at this point. Their country is destroyed........what makes you think that democracy in Iraq is working?.........because you saw some of the Iraqi people on TV and in magazines with blue thumbs?.....because some people went and stood in a line and voted for candidates who were not chosen by the people of Iraq?

Right. :unsure:

Yet crude and gas prices seem to continue to rise.

Sounds like the perfect reasoning. :thumbdown


The Iraqi people always had a choice; they always will. If they want us out, they should ask nicely first; then kick us out by necessary means. If they want their own government, then they should take the initiative. The US can start any type of government for the immediate necessity, but it is up to the Iraqi people in the long run, whether to continue this course or implement a new government.

 

[Zorak]

If they want us out, they should ask nicely first; then kick us out by necessary means.

How would they go about that?

 

[ssl]

How would they go about that?

Two-thirds majority of the vote for two-thirds of the provinces of Iraq voting to ask us to leave.

We did give them new toys, so it would not be too difficult to put some muscle behind the asking.

 

[Zorak]

Ok I'd get behind that

 

[skyblue]

the chances are that if the coalition leaves iraq altogether then turkey,syria and iran would be straight in there

 

[Minor Axis]

9/11 had absolutely nothing to do with Iraq.

For reinforcement: 9/11 had absolutely nothing to do with Iraq. That's Republican propaganda in full force and the second "official" reason we went there, Al Queda in Iraq. This country needs to get smarter regarding the fights it wants to pick. And U.S. citizens need to get smarter about what they allow our leadership to pull.

 

[Tim]

Right. :unsure:

Yet crude and gas prices seem to continue to rise.

Sounds like the perfect reasoning. :thumbdown

A group of American advisers led by a small State Department team played an integral part in drawing up contracts between the Iraqi government and five major Western oil companies to develop some of the largest fields in Iraq, American officials say.
The disclosure, coming on the eve of the contracts’ announcement, is the first confirmation of direct involvement by the Bush administration in deals to open Iraq’s oil to commercial development and is likely to stoke criticism.

This was June 30th 2008. The Iraqi Oil ministry granted no bid oil contracts to 5 of the largest US oil companies even though 40 large companies from around the world were in the running. Since this deal was just completed, there hasn't been enough time for the oil to come on-line and have any effect on the oil market. It has nothing to do with lowering the price of a barrel of oil, it has EVERYTHING to do with securing our future supplies and keeping it out of the hands of the rest of the world. Remember that before we invaded Iraq, Saddam was negotiating oil contracts with China. He was going to cut us out completely. So it is perfect reasoning.

The Iraqi people always had a choice; they always will. If they want us out, they should ask nicely first; then kick us out by necessary means. If they want their own government, then they should take the initiative. The US can start any type of government for the immediate necessity, but it is up to the Iraqi people in the long run, whether to continue this course or implement a new government.

We were asked to give them a time table. Our government won't do that.

 

[Minor Axis]

 

[dt3]

This was June 30th 2008. The Iraqi Oil ministry granted no bid oil contracts to 5 of the largest US oil companies even though 40 large companies from around the world were in the running. Since this deal was just completed, there hasn't been enough time for the oil to come on-line and have any effect on the oil market. It has nothing to do with lowering the price of a barrel of oil, it has EVERYTHING to do with securing our future supplies and keeping it out of the hands of the rest of the world. Remember that before we invaded Iraq, Saddam was negotiating oil contracts with China. He was going to cut us out completely. So it is perfect reasoning.

Did we force them to give us their oil? Or did maybe they think that since we lost 4000 people giving them freedom, maybe they wanted to repay us in some way? Or maybe our companies just had the best bids! You don't know, you're just assuming there was some political arm-twisting, but there's no way you could know why they chose our oil companies.