U.S. and Iraq are officially winning:

[Alien Allen]

Besides Iraq not having an active Nuc weapon program or a bio weapon program as was first accused, we deal peacefully with all sorts of countries with WMD including Russia, China, N.Korea, Israel, etc. The accusation that Iraq was making WMD to use against their neighbors and against the U.S. was a total fabrication to justify our first offensive war. It's criminal. While Cheney was out making the case for WMD, our intelligence agencies were wondering where he got the info.

Tell the Kurds there was no bio program. :eek

You are delusional if you think Iraq was no threat to the region. You folks seem to always come back to the direct imminent threat. I never got that impression. I did get the impression the regions stability would be compromised if Iraq remained unfettered. Same goes with Iran. Ouch, I know that should strike a nerve. FYI my hope is Israel will take care of those problems.

I agree that there is blame to go around, but I'll emphasis it was the Administration supported by a cheer leading Republican Congress that orchestra this war. I am pissed that most Democrats went with the flow for fear of being voted out of office, when Iraq became a huge success (in their minds).

In general the country was behind the war. If not I think things would have been dealt with differently. Maybe not as the dems are typical politicians. What ever is the flavor of the day a politician will follow. Don't misconstrue that as me giving Bush a free pass. The guy is incompetent. He ignored the law of unintended consequences.

Let me ask all you anti war folks the following. Would you support a surgical strike by the CIA or the like to assassinate a monster like Hussein??

 

[FreeWorkVest]

Well I do you give ya kudos for having the Democratic response down pat. :blah:

Textbook response which I would guess has your keyboard worn out. :nod:


Tis a bit of rewriting history IMO

They never said Saddam was responsible for 9/11

There were WMD's in that country. Just ask the Kurds.

Both sides of the aisle are guilty of putting us at war. The Dems could have stopped it if they so desired. but they have the spine of a snake. Just as slippery too. They did not want to go against the sentiment to respond to the non response to UN sanctions given the mood at the time.

Go search the Washington Post, The New York Times and The LA Times archives for pre September 11th articles about Bush. They will show the Bush administration was planning to attack Iraq form day one.

 

[Minor Axis]

Tell the Kurds there was no bio program. :eek

You are delusional if you think Iraq was no threat to the region. You folks seem to always come back to the direct imminent threat. I never got that impression. I did get the impression the regions stability would be compromised if Iraq remained unfettered. Same goes with Iran. Ouch, I know that should strike a nerve. FYI my hope is Israel will take care of those problems.

You just don't get it. The U.S. did not care about what kind of threat Iraq was, our leadership wanted a war.

In general the country was behind the war. If not I think things would have been dealt with differently. Maybe not as the dems are typical politicians. What ever is the flavor of the day a politician will follow. Don't misconstrue that as me giving Bush a free pass. The guy is incompetent. He ignored the law of unintended consequences.

Let me ask all you anti war folks the following. Would you support a surgical strike by the CIA or the like to assassinate a monster like Hussein??

You mean the country was behind the war after being fed a pack of fabricated evidence? Sure.

Hey when Saddam was fighting Iran, we thought he was one o.k. guy, at least good enough to do business with. Our standards have been hypocritical for decades. Is that what we should do, send out assassination teams around the world to take care of dictators? We'd have our work cut out for us.

 

[FreeWorkVest]

Tell the Kurds there was no bio program. :eek

You are delusional if you think Iraq was no threat to the region. You folks seem to always come back to the direct imminent threat. I never got that impression. I did get the impression the regions stability would be compromised if Iraq remained unfettered. Same goes with Iran. Ouch, I know that should strike a nerve. FYI my hope is Israel will take care of those problems.


In general the country was behind the war. If not I think things would have been dealt with differently. Maybe not as the dems are typical politicians. What ever is the flavor of the day a politician will follow. Don't misconstrue that as me giving Bush a free pass. The guy is incompetent. He ignored the law of unintended consequences.

Let me ask all you anti war folks the following. Would you support a surgical strike by the CIA or the like to assassinate a monster like Hussein??

I find this an interesting question. Lets see what Dick Cheney believes :


1992 Cheney: Deposing Saddam not worth very many lives.»

A recently-unearthed video from 1992 shows Vice President Dick Cheney predicting the mess that occupying Iraq would create:

If you get into the business of committing U.S. forces on the ground in Iraq, to occupy the place, my guess is I’d probably still have people there today instead of having been able to bring them home…The bottom line question for me was: How many additional American lives is Saddam Hussein worth? The answer: not very damn many.


In 1994, Dick Cheney said deposing Saddam Hussein would have created a “quagmire” that would not be worth the loss of American life. In 2000, when asked why the U.S. didn’t topple Hussein in the Gulf War, Cheney said, “I thought the decision was sound at the time, and I do today.”

Link to video : YouTube - Cheney on Invading Iraq - 9/14/1992


​

 

[Alien Allen]

The dynamics were different back in 1992. In retrospect maybe we should have gone in to take him out then. I am sure that the Kurds that he wiped out might have appreciated that. But the will of the nation and the world was not there at that point and Bush Sr. make a correct judgment. The years after SH snubbed his nose at the UN and one has to ask why.

I think you know the answer but just won't admit he was a nut who was a problem in the region.

FYI since I am new here. I think our foreign policy has been abysmal for ages. I would prefer to lock up the border and bring all the troops home. I was a fan of Ron Paul. A guy who had the chance to win if he had charisma. Charisma is what voters are saps for. They pay little attention to the important details. so we will get either a tired old shit or a full of shit upstart. neither a good choice.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/27/1992-cheney-deposing-saddam-not-very-damn-many-lives/

1992 Cheney: Deposing Saddam not worth very many lives.»

A recently-unearthed video from 1992 shows Vice President Dick Cheney predicting the mess that occupying Iraq would create: If you get into the business of committing U.S. forces on the ground in Iraq, to occupy the place, my guess is I’d probably still have people there today instead of having been able to bring them home…The bottom line question for me was: How many additional American lives is Saddam Hussein worth? The answer: not very damn many.

Oooops. In black and white is a helluva thing.

 

[FreeWorkVest]

The dynamics were different back in 1992. In retrospect maybe we should have gone in to take him out then. I am sure that the Kurds that he wiped out might have appreciated that. But the will of the nation and the world was not there at that point and Bush Sr. make a correct judgment. The years after SH snubbed his nose at the UN and one has to ask why.

I think you know the answer but just won't admit he was a nut who was a problem in the region.

FYI since I am new here. I think our foreign policy has been abysmal for ages. I would prefer to lock up the border and bring all the troops home. I was a fan of Ron Paul. A guy who had the chance to win if he had charisma. Charisma is what voters are saps for. They pay little attention to the important details. so we will get either a tired old shit or a full of shit upstart. neither a good choice.

Paul was a joke, I had a better chance of getting the nomination than he. He is a libertarian who tried to run as a republican. If the Republican voters would have been stupid enough to select him as their nominee, Skippy the Pedophile Raisin could have beaten him.

 

[Alien Allen]

Maybe I missed it but I do not recall him being question about this video. I wonder why. It is pretty damning. He speaks about why not to go in which they ignored. The laws of unintended consequences. I still think the concept of going in had merit. But they were clueless on what to expect. They thought we would have our feet kissed. Well that lasted about 12 hours and then reality set in that this country is very divided. and probably will be. that who fucking region is driven by religion. and that is a tough nut to crack. my other idea is to nuke the who lot of em. make it all inhabitable. it would serve them right. they want to kill each other anyway so what the hell. lets do it for em in a quick efficient manner.

 

[Alien Allen]

Paul was a joke, I had a better chance of getting the nomination than he. He is a libertarian who tried to run as a republican. If the Republican voters would have been stupid enough to select him as their nominee, Skippy the Pedophile Raisin could have beaten him.

I never said he was credible as far as being electable. but his message would resonate if he was younger and more charismatic. shit look what ya got from the democrats this time. :24:

 

[FreeWorkVest]

Maybe I missed it but I do not recall him being question about this video. I wonder why. It is pretty damning. He speaks about why not to go in which they ignored. The laws of unintended consequences. I still think the concept of going in had merit. But they were clueless on what to expect. They thought we would have our feet kissed. Well that lasted about 12 hours and then reality set in that this country is very divided. and probably will be. that who fucking region is driven by religion. and that is a tough nut to crack. my other idea is to nuke the who lot of em. make it all inhabitable. it would serve them right. they want to kill each other anyway so what the hell. lets do it for em in a quick efficient manner.

God, I am so sick of this "turn it into glass" mentality. We are destroying the lives of millions of Iraqis. I heard, on BBC World Service that many wish for the days of Saddam. THAT is whack

 

[Alien Allen]

God, I am so sick of this "turn it into glass" mentality. We are destroying the lives of millions of Iraqis. I heard, on BBC World Service that many wish for the days of Saddam. THAT is whack

glass=nuke??

you really think that I believe that?

I am just saying the place is a religious mess. has been for eons. not gonna change IMO

As an aside.......... no disrespect to you but........... wars are a bitch........ lots of people die.

lots of people suffer. it all sucks. you think this one is bad I am sure many thought at the time invading Europe was bad back during the 40's.

and with the current anti war attitude it is a guarantee that the deaths and suffering will get worse if we just up and leave all Obama.

I am gonna guess that you think nobody can win. That only one can lose. I can only say I am glad during the dark times of WWII that thought was not was drove the politics of the day.

 

[FreeWorkVest]

glass=nuke??

you really think that I believe that?

I am just saying the place is a religious mess. has been for eons. not gonna change IMO

As an aside.......... no disrespect to you but........... wars are a bitch........ lots of people die.

lots of people suffer. it all sucks. you think this one is bad I am sure many thought at the time invading Europe was bad back during the 40's.

and with the current anti war attitude it is a guarantee that the deaths and suffering will get worse if we just up and leave all Obama.

I am gonna guess that you think nobody can win. That only one can lose. I can only say I am glad during the dark times of WWII that thought was not was drove the politics of the day.

Eisenhower said something along the lines of "a soldier hates war and will do everything he can to avoid it, because he has seen what it does to a man"

 

[FreeWorkVest]

Also, until Pearl Harbor forced Germany to declare war on us, the US was Rabidly anti war. FDR had to promise not to get involved. Most americans at the time supported Hitler

 

[Peter Parka]

Also, until Pearl Harbor forced Germany to declare war on us, the US was Rabidly anti war. FDR had to promise not to get involved. Most americans at the time supported Hitler

True stuff, the US could have saved many lives if they had stepped in sooner. Say what you will about Russian Communism but they were with us much earlier, yes they were selfish and changed sides early on but they were the biggest victims of WWII.

 

[Alien Allen]

Also, until Pearl Harbor forced Germany to declare war on us, the US was Rabidly anti war. FDR had to promise not to get involved. Most americans at the time supported Hitler

Never heard that most Americans supported Hitler up to that point. Do you have a source??

 

[Tim]

.... wars are a bitch........ lots of people die.

Exactly. This is why you better be damned sure you are doing it for the right reason. You better have your facts straight.

I am by no means antiwar or some pacifist. But it better be a damn good reason...

I truly don't think the majority of Americans can wrap their minds around the true pain and suffering people go through in war. Women and children dying horrible painful deaths. So it better be one hell of a good reason to inflict this upon any society, no matter how much you may not care for them.

 

[Alien Allen]

True stuff, the US could have saved many lives if they had stepped in sooner. Say what you will about Russian Communism but they were with us much earlier, yes they were selfish and changed sides early on but they were the biggest victims of WWII.

Roosevelt was the ultimate flip flopper when it comes to this. There was speech after speech where he assured us he would NEVER drag us into the war in Europe..

There is an interesting analogy where FDR let us get attacked in Hawaii the same as Bush let us get attacked 9/11

Sure would be nice to know the truth. I am not much on conspiracies other than JFK.

 

[Alien Allen]

Exactly. This is why you better be damned sure you are doing it for the right reason. You better have your facts straight.

I am by no means antiwar or some pacifist. But it better be a damn good reason...

I truly don't think the majority of Americans can wrap their minds around the true pain and suffering people go through in war. Women and children dying horrible painful deaths. So it better be one hell of a good reason to inflict this upon any society, no matter how much you may not care for them.

That is where we differ. I think there was merit in going into Iraq. We just totally fucked up on what the fallout was. We needed a lot more troops to go in.

 

[Tim]

with the invasion of Iraq, which by conservative estamtes has saved a couple hundred thousand lives.

You really believe this, don't you? You can sit there and honestly say that this war saved lives?

I would have to say that this is the most bizzarre talking point I have heard to date.... fucking unbelievable......

 

[Tim]

Are you denying that under Hussein hundreds of thousands of people died?

Are you aware of the problem with Iraq's children starving to death?

Have you even bothered to reasearch how many people died under Hussein's regime?

Have you considered the flaws in the "body count" numbers?


Do you know how they go about calculating the number of people killed "as a result of the war?"

Do you not think any "offset" of that number no matter how its calculated is justified (i.e., do you not beleive any lives will be saved with Hussein out of power)?

What's fucking unbelievable is how people just buy the socialist/liberal propoganda without ever giving it a second thougth.

According to USA/CIA assessment, during Saddam years was killed between 180,000 and 240,000 people, that is including the war for American interest with Iran!

Saddam was in power for nearly 30 years - that makes about 8,000 killed per year by Saddam!

according to lancet research, in first not fully two years of war there were killed about 650,000 people... two and half times more in two years than Saddam killed in 30!

The Red cross and amnesty international estimates today that since USA led aggression there is at least 1million Iraqi refugees in Syria, about 1,2million in Iran and about 500,000 combined in Saudi, Jordan and several other countries! same source cite that there are over 2million internally misplaced persons!

Just do your research not on some wacko site but on red cross, lancet and amnesty international... even worse the CIA yearbook is giving similar data...