U.S. and Iraq are officially winning:

[Peter Parka]

True Dat. The man thumbed his nose at the UN and the US for years.

You are aware that Saddam was complying with the UN weapons inspectors at the time we made war on him, right?

 

[dt3]

Justified? Maybe. There are worse regimes out there that have known weapon stock piles.

The point is that there were too many people saying he did not have them and he was no real threat. Yet the absolute biggest decision a president can make was made with way too many unknowns. War is always the last resort, it is not to be used to make a point.

Let me ask you this... Even if he did have the weapons, why did we go in when we did? They would have been no threat to us. Was he going to use his air force, navy or his rockets?

I admit that his weapons wouldn't have been a DIRECT threat to us. However, indirectly, it would have added to the instability of an already precarious region.

Like it or not, the Middle East is VERY important to us. If he had any sort of WMD's (like I said he wanted us to think), he could've threatened the entire region and forced them to stop exporting oil to us. Then where would we be? That's just one hypothetical situation of course, but I think you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

 

[Peter Parka]

No, I was not aware and no, he wasn't/didn't comply.

You are wrong.

 

[FreeWorkVest]

I admit that his weapons wouldn't have been a DIRECT threat to us. However, indirectly, it would have added to the instability of an already precarious region.

Like it or not, the Middle East is VERY important to us. If he had any sort of WMD's (like I said he wanted us to think), he could've threatened the entire region and forced them to stop exporting oil to us. Then where would we be? That's just one hypothetical situation of course, but I think you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

He NEVER once threatened another country, except when Kuwait was stealing oil. Iraq was not a place for terrorists, as a matter of fact Al Queda considered Saddam Hussein to be more evil that anyone.

 

[FreeWorkVest]

No, I was not aware and no, he wasn't/didn't comply.

He was complying until Bush started all his talk about invading no matter what.

 

[IntruderLS1]

He NEVER once threatened another country, except when Kuwait was stealing oil. Iraq was not a place for terrorists, as a matter of fact Al Queda considered Saddam Hussein to be more evil that anyone.

Who wants to be the one to tell him?

Out of curiosity, where did you learn this?

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

opcorn2:

 

[Peter Parka]

Who wants to be the one to tell him?

Out of curiosity, where did you learn this?

I learnt it from a Bin Laden broadcast during the war when he told Iraqis to fight on but called Saddam an Infidel. Al Queda only made their way into Iraq when Saddam was defeated, the'd had not tried their luck while he was around. Funny enough, Bin Laden hated Saddam because he thought he was too Westernised.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

I learnt it from a Bin Laden broadcast during the war when he told Iraqis to fight on but called Saddam an Infidel. Al Queda only made their way into Iraq when Saddam was defeated, the'd had not tried their luck while he was around. Funny enough, Bin Laden hated Saddam because he thought he was too Westernised.

Originally Posted by FreeWorkVest
He NEVER once threatened another country, except when Kuwait was stealing oil. Iraq was not a place for terrorists, as a matter of fact Al Queda considered Saddam Hussein to be more evil that anyone.

Soooooo.....what you're saying is....Bin Laden felt Saddam was more evil than the Bush infidel?:unsure:

 

[Peter Parka]

Probably not as much but he certainly looked down on Saddam for his previous relationship and buying of weapons from the West.

 

[Alien Allen]

He NEVER once threatened another country, except when Kuwait was stealing oil. Iraq was not a place for terrorists, as a matter of fact Al Queda considered Saddam Hussein to be more evil that anyone.

Guess you forgot about the war with Iran :eek

I bet Iran is grateful that was just a pseudo threat going on at the time. :24:

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

--------->Ouuuuuch!!!

 

[IntruderLS1]

Guess Allan wanted to tell.

 

[Tim]

I am simply amazed that there are still people that think invading Iraq was the right move. Have you not been paying attention the last 6 years?

Bust wanted plans drawn up for regime change in Iraq before 9/11
They capitalized on the fear/anger of Americans after 9/11
Saddam had NOTHING to do with 9/11
The administration falsified and manipulated the intel to build the case for war
They declare an un-winnable "war on terror"
They US is less safe today then before we invaded.

But hell, we got our pound of flesh.

 

[Alien Allen]

I am simply amazed that there are still people that think invading Iraq was the right move. Have you not been paying attention the last 6 years?

Bust wanted plans drawn up for regime change in Iraq before 9/11
They capitalized on the fear/anger of Americans after 9/11
Saddam had NOTHING to do with 9/11
The administration falsified and manipulated the intel to build the case for war
They declare an un-winnable "war on terror"
They US is less safe today then before we invaded.

But hell, we got our pound of flesh.

Well I do you give ya kudos for having the Democratic response down pat. :blah:

Textbook response which I would guess has your keyboard worn out. :nod:


Tis a bit of rewriting history IMO

They never said Saddam was responsible for 9/11

There were WMD's in that country. Just ask the Kurds.

Both sides of the aisle are guilty of putting us at war. The Dems could have stopped it if they so desired. but they have the spine of a snake. Just as slippery too. They did not want to go against the sentiment to respond to the non response to UN sanctions given the mood at the time.

 

[Tim]

Well I do you give ya kudos for having the Democratic response down pat. :blah:

Textbook response which I would guess has your keyboard worn out. :nod:

My views are my own since I am not a democrat, never was. There is too much wrong with both sides of the isle for me to align myself with either party. I have been registered as an Independent for 23 years. There are issues that I agree that are conservative but most of my beliefs are more liberal. I wouldn't be a very good dem/lib with the fire arms I posses.

Tis a bit of rewriting history IMO

They never said Saddam was responsible for 9/11

They never said that Saddam was responsible, but they tried everything they could to tie him to it. The president even said that Saddam was tied to Bin Laden when they knew full well there was no connection. Ask any Joe Blow off the street and there are a large percentage who believe that Saddam was tied to 9/11. This belief was brought on by this administration and the misinformation they spread.

There were WMD's in that country. Just ask the Kurds.

I know there were WMD's at one point, hell, we gave them to Saddam. The Kurds were gassed by our product. We equipped Saddam with all sorts of chemical weapons when they were fighting Iran.
But we didn't go to war over a small amount of chemical weapons he might still have, we were told he was producing them and seeking uranium to build a nuclear weapon... None of which was true.

Both sides of the aisle are guilty of putting us at war. The Dems could have stopped it if they so desired. but they have the spine of a snake. Just as slippery too. They did not want to go against the sentiment to respond to the non response to UN sanctions given the mood at the time.

Your right, I hold both sides of the isle guilty for this war. The democrats who blindly followed the president are just as guilty as the rest of them... I'm not sure why you think that I only hold republicans responsible for this. But it's funny that the members of the senate/congress who actually took the time to read the NIE reports and the intel voted against the war. That should tell you something right there. When the senate was having hearings, it came out that most of them never read the reports. They just took what the president was saying at face value. That I believe was their greatest mistake in the lead up to the war. These fucking idiots should be making decisions of war based on the facts and not based on what someone else is saying. I want fucking leaders in this country, not sheep. I don't care what their desicion would have been pro/con war, just that they at least read the fucking intel and NIE reports. That's what their there for.

 

[Minor Axis]

My take on it is this: Saddam, whether he had WMD's or not, wanted the world to THINK he did. I believe he wanted everyone to think he had them in order to bolster his standing/power in the region and in his country. We called his bluff, and he lost.

My question to you is this: IF we had found WMD stockpiles, would the invasion and subsequent attempt at rebuildng the nation have been justified in your mind?

Two huge problems with your thesis. Why did we call his bluff? This was orchestrated by our leadership to start a war.

WMD evidence was manufactured. Lies are not a moral basis for invasion.

Where are you getting the "kill hundres of thousands of Iraqis?" The "net" number of death in Iraq have decreased and will continue to decrease since the removal of Hussein. You see--your problem is you get your information from places that feed you only what they want you to know.

I may be mis-remembering but I recall a figure of 300k Iraqis killed since the start of hostilities.

Conservative estimates are that we are approaching 1,000,000 refugees averted and a few hundred thousand lives saved on balance since the invasion (or perhaps you didn't realize that Hussein and his regime were killing hundreds of thousands when they were in power?)

Conservatives are desperate to justify this calamity orchestrated by the most inept Administration in the last 100 years as smart foreign policy hoping the general populace will buy the bull shit.

Let me ask you something--what is the point of UN sanctions if there is no repercussions? Did you honestly believe that anyone would ever take US threats seriously if Hussein were allowed to simply ignore us?

My God Fox, the UN inspectors were trying to continue their work when the U.S. advised them that hostilities were imminent. The U.S. short circuited the process in a rush to war.

 

[Minor Axis]

Out of curiosity, where did you learn this?

This comment is regarding the point that Al Queda did not like Saddam. As I recall Al Queda would not like him because he was a secular ruler. Am I mistaken about that?

They never said that Saddam was responsible, but they tried everything they could to tie him to it. The president even said that Saddam was tied to Bin Laden when they knew full well there was no connection. Ask any Joe Blow off the street and there are a large percentage who believe that Saddam was tied to 9/11. This belief was brought on by this administration and the misinformation they spread.

Iraq came out of no where, however it's been said that Rumsfeld proposed that Afghanistan was not a useful enough country to be at war with, hence, why not Iraq? And supposedly the Iraq plot to kill W's Dad seemed to make it even a better target. Then consider the conspiracy neo-con theory that converting a Middle East country into a democracy while making lots of money for FOA (friends of the Administration) sealed the deal... That's just a guess.

 

[Minor Axis]

There were WMD's in that country. Just ask the Kurds.

Besides Iraq not having an active Nuc weapon program or a bio weapon program as was first accused, we deal peacefully with all sorts of countries with WMD including Russia, China, N.Korea, Israel, etc. The accusation that Iraq was making WMD to use against their neighbors and against the U.S. was a total fabrication to justify our first offensive war. It's criminal. While Cheney was out making the case for WMD, our intelligence agencies were wondering where he got the info.

Your right, I hold both sides of the isle guilty for this war. The democrats who blindly followed the president are just as guilty as the rest of them... I'm not sure why you think that I only hold republicans responsible for this. But it's funny that the members of the senate/congress who actually took the time to read the NIE reports and the intel voted against the war. That should tell you something right there. When the senate was having hearings, it came out that most of them never read the reports. They just took what the president was saying at face value. That I believe was their greatest mistake in the lead up to the war. These fucking idiots should be making decisions of war based on the facts and not based on what someone else is saying. I want fucking leaders in this country, not sheep. I don't care what their desicion would have been pro/con war, just that they at least read the fucking intel and NIE reports. That's what their there for.

I agree that there is blame to go around, but I'll emphasis it was the Administration supported by a cheer leading Republican Congress that orchestra this war. I am pissed that most Democrats went with the flow for fear of being voted out of office, for when Iraq became a huge success (in their minds).

 

[Alien Allen]

My views are my own since I am not a democrat, never was. There is too much wrong with both sides of the isle for me to align myself with either party. I have been registered as an Independent for 23 years. There are issues that I agree that are conservative but most of my beliefs are more liberal. I wouldn't be a very good dem/lib with the fire arms I posses.

My apology, I tend to make snap judgments. I should have waited to call you out.

They never said that Saddam was responsible, but they tried everything they could to tie him to it. The president even said that Saddam was tied to Bin Laden when they knew full well there was no connection. Ask any Joe Blow off the street and there are a large percentage who believe that Saddam was tied to 9/11. This belief was brought on by this administration and the misinformation they spread.

I did not see it that way so we shall have to agree to disagree on this point. As to asking Joe Blow on the street their opinion I have a low regard for Joe Blow. They are the ones that voted in all these fucking idiots that control us.

I know there were WMD's at one point, hell, we gave them to Saddam. The Kurds were gassed by our product. We equipped Saddam with all sorts of chemical weapons when they were fighting Iran.
But we didn't go to war over a small amount of chemical weapons he might still have, we were told he was producing them and seeking uranium to build a nuclear weapon... None of which was true.

I see this all the time from the anti war crowd. So I suppose you would never concede the possibility that given the time lapse from when UN started searching there is a likelihood that any weapons would have been hidden or removed.

Your right, I hold both sides of the isle guilty for this war. The democrats who blindly followed the president are just as guilty as the rest of them... I'm not sure why you think that I only hold republicans responsible for this. But it's funny that the members of the senate/congress who actually took the time to read the NIE reports and the intel voted against the war. That should tell you something right there. When the senate was having hearings, it came out that most of them never read the reports. They just took what the president was saying at face value. That I believe was their greatest mistake in the lead up to the war. These fucking idiots should be making decisions of war based on the facts and not based on what someone else is saying. I want fucking leaders in this country, not sheep. I don't care what their desicion would have been pro/con war, just that they at least read the fucking intel and NIE reports. That's what their there for.

Unless people get a license to vote our nation of sheep will keep voting based on emotions and bullshit being served up by the politicians. we are a nation of sheep that like to get raped repeatedly it seems. I have had some involvement fighting state and local regulators on issues and I have seen how apathetic our society is. I also have seen that there is truth that politicians will respond if enough complain. Trouble is all the assholes living in this country want to sit by and let somebody else make the effort.