You need to go read the description of the video by the person that shot it. He clearly states that the TSA did not remove the boys shirt. It was the father of the boy that took it off.
TSA = Total Sexual Assaut?
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You need to go read the description of the video by the person that shot it. He clearly states that the TSA did not remove the boys shirt. It was the father of the boy that took it off.
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Accountable
Well-Known Member
Outstanding post!:clap
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Hey if you Americans are worried about slipping into a police state, don't feel too bad. Britain has been a police state for decades now. And the main benefit of constant intrusions into ones privacy are crime levels that are practically the same as every other country.
Who wouldn't want that?
Who wouldn't want that?
HottyToddyChick
Toes in the water...
I highly doubt, though, that the dad just volunteered that. Oh hey, let me take the boy's shirt off. I could be mistaken, but that just doesn't seem likely.
Well I DID read the entire description. And it clearly states the father was "enraged" by the TSA's actions with his son, and pulled the shirt off. So if someone is trying to imply that this was some voluntary action by a helpful Dad, that would be grossly misleading. This IS clear evidence of more over-reaction by the TSA, likely in violation of their own policies and standards.
The video maker also details how he was immediately accosted by a a TSA agent in a dark suit who demanded info about why the man was video taping it, insisting that he delete the video, and clearly trying to intimidate or bully him. They then had even more agents follow him to his gate and keep him under surveillance until he boarded his plane.
It seems very obvious that the TSA is really starting to feel the heat, and are now attempting to keep these types of videos and photos out of the public eye. Last time I checked, there is nothing in any regulations that don't allow ordinary citizens to use their cameras and video phones in public places. I wonder how long before TSA sets their sights on obstructing ANOTHER of the Bill of Rights?
cam elle toe
Banned BY User's Request
I'm surprised you have a tourism industry.....or do you?
I wouldnt want to visit over there now....you're treated like a criminal before you even set foot on "US soil"
I wouldnt want to visit over there now....you're treated like a criminal before you even set foot on "US soil"
Our tourism is on the steady decline. Has been for a few years now. People have decided to go elsewhere where they aren't treated as criminals in our airports. Can't say I blame them but our state for one is hurting because of it.
Here's one on how TSA took this woman's child:
http://theintelhub.com/2010/11/23/tsa-agents-take-mothers-child/
Now, I do think she seemed a bit dramatic, but then again, in her situation, I'm not sure I'd have kept my cool either had they taken PBBB out of my sight. Especially when taking her son away was in direct violation of the rules TSA has set out. I guess taking off his pacie and running her through the metal detector again was too much hassle?
Something has to change and change quickly. Sanity, reason & critical thinking skills need to a higher priority obviously..
But I knew we were all phucked when they started making mom's drink their breast milk. I mean really? Really? Yeah, sanity instead of insanity please......
Real stand up people they have employed at the TSA
http://lagrangenews.com/view/full_s...--assault?instance=secondary_news_left_column
http://lagrangenews.com/view/full_s...--assault?instance=secondary_news_left_column
ok not that anyone should but do this
imagine that you are a sexual predator and you want it and you are scheming to get it
and not get caught
your gonna try and be part of something that will allow you to gain access to people that
either have low selfesteem (easy targets)
or people who are totally trusting
or in an invironment where you are discussing the details of sexual assults
and watching and listing to people who are telling their stories
its like the perfect job for a predator
we used to hang people for stuff like that
imagine that you are a sexual predator and you want it and you are scheming to get it
and not get caught
your gonna try and be part of something that will allow you to gain access to people that
either have low selfesteem (easy targets)
or people who are totally trusting
or in an invironment where you are discussing the details of sexual assults
and watching and listing to people who are telling their stories
its like the perfect job for a predator
we used to hang people for stuff like that
Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
I heard TSA could hire convicted rapists as long as the crime was 10 years old or more. It is written in the act according to what I heard on the radio this morning.
So you can be on the sex offender list for 25 years or so yet still get a job with TSA.
WTF is this country coming to when we can't profile but will allow a convicted rapist at that job
TSA employees seem to be about at the grade level of a McDonalds worker.
So you can be on the sex offender list for 25 years or so yet still get a job with TSA.
WTF is this country coming to when we can't profile but will allow a convicted rapist at that job
TSA employees seem to be about at the grade level of a McDonalds worker.
I plucked this letter off of the letters section of my fav indy news blog. Sounds good to me. Many here have mentioned El Al. If this letter is any indication, they are indeed employing some sanity & common sense to screening. We should take a cue:
"I've been following the TSA uproar and all the comparisons to Israeli airport security.
Having been through Israeli airport security many dozens of times, let me explain how it works.
The most thorough security check takes places before you check in. First you queue up depending on where you are going, and a worker with a private security company approaches you and asks to see your passport and ticket. On the basis of those, and your appearance, they put a white sticker on your passport and bags with a number from 1 through 6. Israeli Jews normally get a 1. Foreign Jews a 2, non-Jewish foreigners a 3, and it's downhill from there. Israeli Arabs usually get a 4 or 5. The 6 is for the highest perceived security category--lone, young male Arab Muslim or others who, for usually unknown reasons, spark their suspicions.
After a few minutes someone else will approach you, look at your number. If it's a 1, no questions, a 2, "did you pack your bags, have they been with you all the time?";-pretty standard stuff; a 3: the same questions, plus "what were you doing in Israel? Where did you go, who did you see?." They will then take their leave and send another security person to ask you the same questions all over again. Then the two will get together and compare notes--if they suspect something, expect more questions. It sounds time-consuming, and it can be, but at least it's entertaining while you wait.
It gets more intense and unpleasant for 4 through 6. With a 6, you are strip-searched, x-rayed, possibly a cavity search--all in private, men by men, women by women. If, as the recipient of a 6, you haven't been arrested, they will then accompany you to check-in and stay with you, even in the bathroom, all the way to the door of the plane.
Some people are on the "screw you" list and no matter what, they get a 5 or 6. I know a non-Jewish, non-Israeli Caucasian Australian cameraman who works for Jazeera English who routinely gets a 5 or 6, clearly as punishment for his employer.
If you are with small children, they usually let you off easy, assuming, logically, that you're unlikely to do something nasty with a family in tow.
Then the bags go through an x-ray machine. If you have a 1 through 3, and there is something in your bag they want to know about, they ask you what it is. And often the answer is enough and they don't open the bag.
If you are an Israeli Arab, they will open all your bags and go through them thoroughly. If you are a single, young, non-Israeli, non-Jewish woman, they will be very interested because they will suspect an Arab boyfriend gave you something.
If you've made it this far--past the questioning, the bags inspected--you check in. And from there it's pretty straightforward.
Passport control is usually pretty easy, and the pre-boarding security check fast. There are no full body scanners along the Chertoff lines, just the standard metal detectors (you don't have to empty the change out of your pockets), and no patdowns (if you haven't been cavity searched).
And never, interestingly enough, have there ever been any restrictions on liquids.
I haven't been to the US since the latest TSA measures were put in place, but yes, my experience with them before was that they were unprofessional, minimum-waged morons. To their credit--and I don't usually give any to the Israelis--their security measures, if you are one of the lucky ones, are not outrageous.
So it's a mixed bag. Racial profiling has always been the heart of their security system. If you are in the right "category" Israeli airport security is fast and efficient. If you're not in the right category, it's slow, intrusive, degrading and humiliating.
Hope that gives you a better idea of how it works."
Now I'm curious how much they pay their people and if they make triple what our TSA employees do? Ya get what ya pay for? Who knows......
"I've been following the TSA uproar and all the comparisons to Israeli airport security.
Having been through Israeli airport security many dozens of times, let me explain how it works.
The most thorough security check takes places before you check in. First you queue up depending on where you are going, and a worker with a private security company approaches you and asks to see your passport and ticket. On the basis of those, and your appearance, they put a white sticker on your passport and bags with a number from 1 through 6. Israeli Jews normally get a 1. Foreign Jews a 2, non-Jewish foreigners a 3, and it's downhill from there. Israeli Arabs usually get a 4 or 5. The 6 is for the highest perceived security category--lone, young male Arab Muslim or others who, for usually unknown reasons, spark their suspicions.
After a few minutes someone else will approach you, look at your number. If it's a 1, no questions, a 2, "did you pack your bags, have they been with you all the time?";-pretty standard stuff; a 3: the same questions, plus "what were you doing in Israel? Where did you go, who did you see?." They will then take their leave and send another security person to ask you the same questions all over again. Then the two will get together and compare notes--if they suspect something, expect more questions. It sounds time-consuming, and it can be, but at least it's entertaining while you wait.
It gets more intense and unpleasant for 4 through 6. With a 6, you are strip-searched, x-rayed, possibly a cavity search--all in private, men by men, women by women. If, as the recipient of a 6, you haven't been arrested, they will then accompany you to check-in and stay with you, even in the bathroom, all the way to the door of the plane.
Some people are on the "screw you" list and no matter what, they get a 5 or 6. I know a non-Jewish, non-Israeli Caucasian Australian cameraman who works for Jazeera English who routinely gets a 5 or 6, clearly as punishment for his employer.
If you are with small children, they usually let you off easy, assuming, logically, that you're unlikely to do something nasty with a family in tow.
Then the bags go through an x-ray machine. If you have a 1 through 3, and there is something in your bag they want to know about, they ask you what it is. And often the answer is enough and they don't open the bag.
If you are an Israeli Arab, they will open all your bags and go through them thoroughly. If you are a single, young, non-Israeli, non-Jewish woman, they will be very interested because they will suspect an Arab boyfriend gave you something.
If you've made it this far--past the questioning, the bags inspected--you check in. And from there it's pretty straightforward.
Passport control is usually pretty easy, and the pre-boarding security check fast. There are no full body scanners along the Chertoff lines, just the standard metal detectors (you don't have to empty the change out of your pockets), and no patdowns (if you haven't been cavity searched).
And never, interestingly enough, have there ever been any restrictions on liquids.
I haven't been to the US since the latest TSA measures were put in place, but yes, my experience with them before was that they were unprofessional, minimum-waged morons. To their credit--and I don't usually give any to the Israelis--their security measures, if you are one of the lucky ones, are not outrageous.
So it's a mixed bag. Racial profiling has always been the heart of their security system. If you are in the right "category" Israeli airport security is fast and efficient. If you're not in the right category, it's slow, intrusive, degrading and humiliating.
Hope that gives you a better idea of how it works."
Now I'm curious how much they pay their people and if they make triple what our TSA employees do? Ya get what ya pay for? Who knows......
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Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
The sheer volume of Americans flying would make the Israeli model unworkable here. And it would require probably one getting there 6 hours early.
We could utilize some of it.
We need to tell the PC crowd to fuck off and allow profiling to start.
Our number 1 for example would be an elderly Caucasian couple and little Caucasian kids.
Lets spend time looking at people we know could be potential terrorists and quit wasting time on those that clearly are not.
We could utilize some of it.
We need to tell the PC crowd to fuck off and allow profiling to start.
Our number 1 for example would be an elderly Caucasian couple and little Caucasian kids.
Lets spend time looking at people we know could be potential terrorists and quit wasting time on those that clearly are not.
That we didn't start profiling right after September 11th told me this was all bs. Cuz if we were indeed serious about security and not just getting people used to being cowed we'd have been doing it immediately following.
I agree that across-the-board implementation would take some serious adjusting. I guess there aren't ways for those in power to make money off of it or these procedures would already be in place? hehehehehehehehehe..... methinks I've gotten cynical in my old age :24:
You're right and I think that's the biggest pisser. We're checking people that really don't need to be checked if one applies logic and critical thinking skills. Hence another reason why I think this is all an exercise in getting us to submit. For our own safety. While those who hold the keys profit.
Accountable
Well-Known Member
Background checks could begin the minute a ticket was purchased (with the person's permission, of course). People that were cleared, such as already having a security clearance, previous background checks, etc, would go in one line with positive ID, the rest would be interviewed. I think it could work if we used technology right.
We already offer a "pay for bypass" type of scenario, where frequent flyers can pay for a special form of ID that gives them a fast pathway through security. I see no reason why anyone who chooses couldn't be "pre-screened" for secure passage in airports - a "Safe to Fly" IS card, if you will. I would have no problem submitting, voluntarily, to intense screening and scrutiny ONCE if it meant I could then be cleared with relative ease.
How would background checks keep us safe? Are you suggesting that background checks be added to the security already in place or an alternative?
So a U.S. Army major should be able to get on a plane without being checked for weapons? I mean he should be able to pass a security check better than anyone else, right. Well wasn't Nidal Malik Hasan a U.S. Army major? He was the one that shot and killed 13, wounding 30 others.
Background checks mean nothing. It's one of the easiest things to exploit. There are many radicals out there that have never been in trouble or would red-flag a background check.
And for those of you that believe in profiling... It doesn't work. It's not that it isn't PC, it just doesn't work. Because the second you determine what type of person you are profiling, they will change to get around that. Just look at the shoe bomber or the Christmas day bomber. Neither would have fit into the profile that you guys think. There are Syrians who have blond hair and green eyes, yet there are radical Muslims from Syria... So who do we check? There is no "look" for a terrorist. Sorry if you believe that, but there isn't.
You could also make the case that the minute you put extreme security measures in place for a single type of weapon (liquids, implanted explosives) they will simply change to get around THAT. That is a big part of the problem I have with how TSA handles their business. They only put these measures in place after a hole in the system has been exploited - it's completely REACTIVE.
Accountable
Well-Known Member
And I agree with that. We are too reactive and we do stupid things that just make the majority of people "feel" good without solving the problem. We need to accept that nothing will make us 100% safe and we can't just keep adding layer after layer of stupid security checks just to prevent 1 idiot getting through.
We are never 100% safe in anything we do and we shouldn't try to be. There needs to be acceptable risks so we aren't all walking around wrapped in bubble wrap.
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