Tired of illegal immigrants?

[All Else Failed]

no that would be bad

 

[Charmer]

Why are a lot of people so adament about having ILLEGALS in the United States? We do have laws you know.

So, if millions of Americans decided to ignore any laws and, for example, rob banks and then get lawyers to defend them, (hell, even the ACLU!), and say that the bank robbers were only trying to provide for their family, would the U.S. government just ignore that law and not enforce it?

Why should we feel sorry for people, and their conditions, in Mexico and not feel sorry for all the millions of unemployed LEGAL U.S. citizens in the United States? All the very poor LEGAL citizens? All the homeless LEGAL U.S. citizens? When do they come first?

 

[IntruderLS1]

You're forgetting Charmer that America to some people is the great Imperial evil in the world.

The only thing good that can come from this country is the eventual transformation into something it wasn't founded to be.

Understand now?

 

[Charmer]

You're forgetting Charmer that America to some people is the great Imperial evil in the world.

The only thing good that can come from this country is the eventual transformation into something it wasn't founded to be.

Understand now?

Bush, Cheney and the PNAC Gang have managed to turn MY country into something it wasn't founded to be, I know that!

 

[IntruderLS1]

And there you have it. Vote!!

 

[Charmer]

And there you have it. Vote!!

I do!

But I'm not a Main Party, (the two main parties), kind of guy.

And the majority don't relaize that there are other parties outside of Democrat and Republican.

Though, Ron Paul is running as a Republican this time, so he might be my choice. Who knows....

 

[All Else Failed]

Why are a lot of people so adament about having ILLEGALS in the United States? We do have laws you know.

So, if millions of Americans decided to ignore any laws and, for example, rob banks and then get lawyers to defend them, (hell, even the ACLU!), and say that the bank robbers were only trying to provide for their family, would the U.S. government just ignore that law and not enforce it?

Why should we feel sorry for people, and their conditions, in Mexico and not feel sorry for all the millions of unemployed LEGAL U.S. citizens in the United States? All the very poor LEGAL citizens? All the homeless LEGAL U.S. citizens? When do they come first?

Our nation was built on accepting different people into it. Hell, the very people that started this nation were here illegally if you want to really get into specifics and semantics.

Yes, we have laws, but what do you propose we do with the millions of illegals? Just kick them out? That will never happen.


What needs to be done is, a simplification of the immigration process to get into this country. Right now, the process is almost unreachable to most impoverished Mexicans. You need a green card AND a visa to get into the states, that costs money that most Mexicans do not have.

We need to stop thinking about "ours and theirs" and start thinking about HUMANS. Borders don't exist.

 

[All Else Failed]

You're forgetting Charmer that America to some people is the great Imperial evil in the world.

The only thing good that can come from this country is the eventual transformation into something it wasn't founded to be.

Understand now?

Yes, the US is imperial, but I don't think its some great satan. its the people in power, special interest groups, lobbists, and corporations that run this country that need to be thrown out by their necks.

What do you think this country is transforming into?

 

[GraceAbounds]

Yes, the US is imperial, but I don't think its some great satan. its the people in power, special interest groups, lobbists, and corporations that run this country that need to be thrown out by their necks.

What do you think this country is transforming into?

First you tell people that they should just accept change; that there is nothing they can do about it. Then you say that people that are fighting for change should be thrown out by their necks. You are always saying that people should speak up about what they disagree with and then when they do you basically tell them to shut up about it - that nothing is going to change so they should just accept it. I don't know if you can see it or not, but you are very double minded. And contrary to what you say, borders and laws do exist and for good reason.

I don't fault people that are living under a corrupt government and oppressed economy and culture that want to leave and move elsewhere. Who could blame anyone living in 3rd world conditions to want to find a better life elsewhere. However immigrants need to do so legally.

If an immigrant's home country sucked so bad that they want to leave then they should not go to another country (America for example) and then try to replicate their old life there. That is insanity. They need to assimilate into their new country's culture.

 

[Peter Parka]

Firstly, I'd just like to say I disagree with illegal immigration. I believe that immigrants fleeing their country should have rights to asylum but it should be through the proper channels. I don't know too much about the law in the USA but over here it takes far too long to have their case considered and passed in which time they are holed up in prisons, this just encorages illegal immigration. I strongly disagree that once they are given asylum they should have to abandon their culture. There are good things their culture can bring to the country. London is such a wonderful city because of all the exciting cultures in it. Stiffling other cultures is the sort of nonsense that racist political parties like the BNP preach.

 

[All Else Failed]

First you tell people that they should just accept change; that there is nothing they can do about it. Then you say that people that are fighting for change should be thrown out by their necks. You are always saying that people should speak up about what they disagree with and then when they do you basically tell them to shut up about it - that nothing is going to change so they should just accept it. I don't know if you can see it or not, but you are very double minded. And contrary to what you say, borders and laws do exist and for good reason.

I don't fault people that are living under a corrupt government and oppressed economy and culture that want to leave and move elsewhere. Who could blame anyone living in 3rd world conditions to want to find a better life elsewhere. However immigrants need to do so legally.

If an immigrant's home country sucked so bad that they want to leave then they should not go to another country (America for example) and then try to replicate their old life there. That is insanity. They need to assimilate into their new country's culture.

Well yeah, they should accept the change, since you cannot possibly stiop Latins/Spanish people from reporducing. Whjen I said that the corrupt governmental officials should be thrown out, I was referring to the ones that are making this country shit. The ones that intentionally make the immigration process ridiculous. People should speak up, thats their right. But these corrupt individuals are intentionally trying to do something that is impossible.

yes, laws exist, and a lot of them are arbitrary and stupid. What do you suggest we do about the millions of illegals in this country already???

Like I siad....the immigration process isn't a very viable option for poor mexicans that have little to no money.

 

[Thebest]

lol forced poverty. Such compassion. Do you know how bad it is in Mexico? I've seen the really bad parts. if i was a Mexican in a impoverished part of Mexico, you'd have to shoot me to stay out of the US.

So that gives them an excuse to sneak into America illegally? gives them a right to not pay taxes, but still make money? Doesn't really make sense to me.

 

[All Else Failed]

So that gives them an excuse to sneak into America illegally? gives them a right to not pay taxes, but still make money? Doesn't really make sense to me.

Illegals do pay taxes. If the own a house, live in an apartment, buy products, have a job, have kids, are married, or own a car....they pay taxes. Those are just a few. Illegal or not.

 

[GraceAbounds]

Firstly, I'd just like to say I disagree with illegal immigration. I believe that immigrants fleeing their country should have rights to asylum but it should be through the proper channels. I don't know too much about the law in the USA but over here it takes far too long to have their case considered and passed in which time they are holed up in prisons, this just encorages illegal immigration. I strongly disagree that once they are given asylum they should have to abandon their culture. There are good things their culture can bring to the country. London is such a wonderful city because of all the exciting cultures in it. Stiffling other cultures is the sort of nonsense that racist political parties like the BNP preach.

No one should have to abandon their personal heritage/culture. No one is saying that. What is being said is that immigrants should also assimilate into the culture of the country they are now wishing to live in and be a citizen of so that it is obvious that they want to play ball and be a part of that new team. They should want to be a part of that new country and not just a foreign entity within that new country, because when they refuse to assimilate it just makes it look like they don't want to be part of the country they moved to. It looks more like they want American citizens to change America culture for them and that American culture should have to cater to them - this is what I disagree with. Our society should not have to cater to immigrants. My ancestors were not catered to. They came over here, learned to speak the language, and busted their butts. They wanted to be Americans, but they didn't forget their Italian heritage. They assimilated.

 

[All Else Failed]

No one should have to abandon their personal heritage/culture. No one is saying that. What is being said is that immigrants should also assimilate into the culture of the country they are now wishing to live in and be a citizen of so that it is obvious that they want to play ball and be a part of that new team. They should want to be a part of that new country and not just a foreign entity within that new country, because when they refuse to assimilate it just makes it look like they don't want to be part of the country they moved to. It looks more like they want American citizens to change America culture for them and that American culture should have to cater to them - this is what I disagree with. Our society should not have to cater to immigrants. My ancestors were not catered to. They came over here, learned to speak the language, and busted their butts. They wanted to be Americans, but they didn't forget their Italian heritage. They assimilated.

Well, as America becomes more and more latino/spanish, there will inevitably be a bilingual characteristic that comes this this coming chnage, and that isn't bad! Bilingualism is actually a very good thing. It makes people more educated and apt to communicating. I hardly see any real front in America that wants to overthrow "American culture" for a latino one. Yeah, there are some schools that want to introduce spanish language additions to their curriculum, but thats nothing to be worried about at all. We are all immigrants. Everyone has to understand that, and its not true that people just assimilate or abandon their heritage to become "one of the team". Look at all the little italy's and little irelands that pop up in urban communities, should they be torn down? See, people may learn the language, but they just don't drop who they are.

 

[Peter Parka]

I agree with AEF. I also have a small point. If immigrants should adapt to their cultures, then why didn't the first immigrants to the USA adopt native American culture and why isn't current day USA predominantly native American in culture?

 

[All Else Failed]

I agree with AEF. I also have a small point. If immigrants should adapt to their cultures, then why didn't the first immigrants to the USA adopt native American culture and why isn't current day USA predominantly native American in culture?

Silly Peter, those were savages and not really "people". :jk

 

[GraceAbounds]

Well, as America becomes more and more latino/spanish, there will inevitably be a bilingual characteristic that comes this this coming chnage, and that isn't bad! Bilingualism is actually a very good thing. It makes people more educated and apt to communicating. I hardly see any real front in America that wants to overthrow "American culture" for a latino one. Yeah, there are some schools that want to introduce spanish language additions to their curriculum, but thats nothing to be worried about at all. We are all immigrants. Everyone has to understand that, and its not true that people just assimilate or abandon their heritage to become "one of the team". Look at all the little italy's and little irelands that pop up in urban communities, should they be torn down? See, people may learn the language, but they just don't drop who they are.

Your missing my point by taking it to the extreme. What you've stated here is not what I am implying or saying - at least not in the context in which you've spit it back at me as.

And you failed to see your double mindedness as well. You told people in this thread to just accept 'such n such', not just the people in power that should be thrown out on their necks. Blah, never mind. Too much effort in trying to explain it to you.

 

[GraceAbounds]

One last attempt at trying to explain this perspective.
I don't know why I am bothering but I am so anyways:

Look at it on a simple and small scale.

Let's say that someone came to live with you and your family of 4. The person that is coming to live with you would assimilate to how your house runs. You would not change your whole household for them. You would be helpful to your guest. You would be somewhat accommodating. And you'd learn some new things from your guest. On the short - your guest would either assimilate so that the household could continue to run in a smooth manner for all involved OR problems would arise and the guest would be asked to leave.

You can apply this scenario to the new employee at a place of employment as well.

Anyway - that's all. That is as simple as I can put it.

 

[Peter Parka]

That is so simplistic I don't even know where to start!:smiley24: Running a country is nothing like running a household!
If thats what you believe then though, surely you must agree with my point about fitting in with Red Indian culture!