The Soul

[Tim]

The latest theory, which I believe was proved by watching how light passing the Earth curves around it, gravity literally bends space and time, like a ball bearing dropped into some sand. It's mass and the amount of space that gives it this attraction.

Like this:



The major remaining puzzle of gravity is why it is so incredibly weak compared to the other 3 known forces.

This is an explanation of effect, not cause... try again

 

[GoldDust Woman]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why so many hold their beliefs, their myths to be truths. Religions are born of man's imagination and as such are not universal truths.

Well, darlin'... holding on to my beliefs has been painless and free... so, tossing your coin, I don't understand why those who don't believe are so against it? It doesn't cost you your life savings... :ninja

 

[edgray]

This is an explanation of effect, not cause... try again

You didn't read properly, did you?

It's mass and the amount of space that gives it this attraction.

The curvature of time and space creates the attraction and is caused by the mass of the object in relation to the space around it.

Einstein's General Theory of Relativity gives a very good framework for gravity, and this has been shown to be correct so far, the missing piece of the puzzle is gravitational waves.

Gravity does lack a complete explanation, but the biggest concern of physicists is it's comparative weakness.

 

[Tim]

You didn't read properly, did you?



The curvature of time and space creates the attraction and is caused by the mass of the object in relation to the space around it.

Einstein's General Theory of Relativity gives a very good framework for gravity, and this has been shown to be correct so far, the missing piece of the puzzle is gravitational waves.

Gravity does lack a complete explanation, but the biggest concern of physicists is it's comparative weakness.

Read this http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/63190/title/A_New_View_of_Gravity

 

[Minor Axis]

That is a question I've asked myself many times. My dog behaves as if she has "feelings" and "sense"... so, it's quite possible that she does have a soul. Do I know for certain? I don't. Going with the creation theory, anything is possible.

I agree that if we can, they can have souls.

 

[edgray]

Read this http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/63190/title/A_New_View_of_Gravity

Gravity as entropy? Interesting stuff.

 

[BornReady]

Actually science does not know what causes the attraction... Seriously, go do a little research on the topic. You will find paper after paper published on the effects of gravity but that doesn't explain the underlying theoretical explanation.

I imagine the same could be said of all the universe's forces. Science can't really explain why physical laws work the way they do. Science can only describe how the laws work. For example, F = ma is a description of how a force acts on a mass not why a force acts on a mass.

 

[cam elle toe]

But where does this "soul" come from? Has this soul always existed? Was it created just for you and does it survive our physical bodies?
There are so many questions that no one really tries to explain or answer.

I think (THINK...as Ed said...we cant KNOW for sure) it has always existed. It comes from "God" or the original life force..or whatever you want to call it. It has always existed, and continues to after THIS death. It doesnt always reincarnate straight away.....there may be thousands of years in between "lives". So, your question before when the population was much lower...there just werent as many souls in an earthly incarnation then.
There is even some that believe we incarnate on other planets.

So what you are saying is that there are unexplainable things so while souls can't be proven they can't be totally discounted.

This. I dont TOTALLY believe anything....I have read volumes on this subject over the last 35 years...and I've formed my own theories of what makes the most sense to me.
It makes NO SENSE..that our brains, consciuosness ...feelings and emotions....all just "APPEAR" and then disappear to nothing when we die....what about still born babies...where doctors can find absolutely no reason for them not being born alive?
Its like a brand new car...all the parts are there...theres nothing mechanically wrong with it...but until you add the petrol...it wont go anywhere. (bad anology I know...but the first one that came to mind


According to Cam's author, there is no explanation of the 'why' other than to assume it's because of our souls. I guess that is possible but it is hardly proven.

I dont think it will ever be proven.

You know where *I* think it comes from.

I liken the soul to our emotions and senses. We don't "feel" (cry, laugh, scream, giggle, ect.,) until we have life breathed into us, and we don't "sense", until life is breathed into us. A fetus depends on the Mother to thrive... all of it's needs are met while in the womb. Once we're born, we're singular. Enters - the soul. (Again, this is my opinion.)

Does it survive our physical bodies? :confused Did you mean to say, does it live on after the physical body dies?

yes

Do animals have souls? If we can, why can't they?

many books I have read...suggest that animals come from a different "soul group" This is one of the reasons in some cultures...cows for instance are "royaL" and at the top of the chain..where as a dog or a pig may be much farther down

What things happen that should be impossible by scientific standards then, Dana? I'd love to hear this!!!!!

*waits for the answer never to come*

---

As for a soul... No, I'm afraid I don't believe in any kind of "spiritual" world that might have souls in it etc.

I do know that I cannot know 100% either way. No one can.

Well....at least your open to it....thats good.

 

[cam elle toe]

Yes, there are MANY unexplainable things... But I will NEVER attribute the unexplainable to a myth, fairytale or religion. Let me see if I can explain why I feel this way...
If I were to personally observe an event that could not be explained by science (at least with our current understanding) it would be just as wrong for me to attribute that event to a myth, a fairytale, a religion, an alien or any other supernatural entity. I am not audacious enough to presume to know which "myth" to associate that event with.
For the life of me, I cannot understand why so many hold their beliefs, their myths to be truths. Religions are born of man's imagination and as such are not universal truths. Water is wet and will flow when warm. This is a universal truth that was correct before man as it is today. Yet religion has changed countless times. There have been thousands of beliefs and "truths" related to religion that have shaped our species, but they are nothing more than inventions of ours. They are not and never will be truths.

So while I believe in consciousness, I do not believe in a soul which was born of religion. There was no supernatural being who created a soul for me at birth nor is there an afterlife where my soul will reside for eternity. My consciousness will expire as the last few neurons fire in my brain. And I'm ok with that.

BUT....they ALL believe in the soul. Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Spiritualists, Taoists...AND they all believe in reincarnation. (YES even christianity originally included this in The Bible but the Church leaders...in all their wisdom took it out for fear people wouldnt flock to them and donate their money if they didnt have the "fear" of eternal damnation)

I find it funny that a LOT of people call Christians 'Judgemental" (I am not a Christian by the way)....yet you pour scorn on those who...not necessarily believe...but look past the end of their noses and the test tube.

Now THATS hypocritical

 

[Maldoror]

BUT....they ALL believe in the soul. Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Spiritualists, Taoists...AND they all believe in reincarnation. (YES even christianity originally included this in The Bible but the Church leaders...in all their wisdom took it out for fear people wouldnt flock to them and donate their money if they didnt have the "fear" of eternal damnation)

Well, the majority tends to be wrong, it's only researchers, specialists, thinkers, inquisitive minds that manage to get to the bottom of things. Many religions having a certain belief in common doesn't give it any credibility really.

 

[Minor Axis]

For Cam, I did read your link and commented on reply #27. If it was not worthy of a comment, no problem. But I'm secretly hoping you just overlooked it.

 

[cam elle toe]

Of course I read it...(excellent post too).I didnt quote it, because I thought I covered it when I quoted this:

Do animals have souls? If we can, why can't they?

and responded.

 

[hart]

I don't know I sometimes like to talk to my mother who passed away over 20 years ago. Do I think she hears me? I don't know, but it comforts me. So I'm with Golddust, it doesn't hurt to believe that the "essence" of a person survives their death. Is their a physical/spiritual/entity of some sort that could be scientifically "measured" if we had the right equipment? Maybe. I believe in mediums and spirits there are too many people that have known things in dreams, visions, etc., that they shouldn't/couldn't know any other way.

And heck if I'm wrong, what's the harm?

 

[Minor Axis]

I don't know I sometimes like to talk to my mother who passed away over 20 years ago. Do I think she hears me? I don't know, but it comforts me. So I'm with Golddust, it doesn't hurt to believe that the "essence" of a person survives their death. Is their a physical/spiritual/entity of some sort that could be scientifically "measured" if we had the right equipment? Maybe. I believe in mediums and spirits there are too many people that have known things in dreams, visions, etc., that they shouldn't/couldn't know any other way.

And heck if I'm wrong, what's the harm?

No harm.

The only time I get annoyed is when a theist says I believe in God, but if I'm wrong, then what's the harm, but if I'm right the inference is that I'll be in God's corner and should receive my reward. When you first read it, it might sound like the same thing you said, but it's not.

The difference is between doing something that makes you feel good vs doing what is expected of you and associated reward or punishment from such actions. I believe reward and punishment is well below God's standard for evaluating humans (if such a thing exists). The better analysis would be what you do when you are not under any pressure or have any threats hanging over you.

 

[BornReady]

This is one of the reasons in some cultures...cows for instance are "royaL" and at the top of the chain..where as a dog or a pig may be much farther down

I've never understood the religious prejudice against dogs and pigs. Both are awesome animals.

 

[Maldoror]

Awesomely delicious.

 

[BornReady]

Well, pigs anyway.

 

[edgray]

Well....at least your open to it....thats good.

I'm certainly open to the idea, I've just landed on the side of skepticism due to a lack of evidence.

 

[Tim]

BUT....they ALL believe in the soul. Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Spiritualists, Taoists...AND they all believe in reincarnation. (YES even christianity originally included this in The Bible but the Church leaders...in all their wisdom took it out for fear people wouldnt flock to them and donate their money if they didnt have the "fear" of eternal damnation)

I find it funny that a LOT of people call Christians 'Judgemental" (I am not a Christian by the way)....yet you pour scorn on those who...not necessarily believe...but look past the end of their noses and the test tube.

Now THATS hypocritical

I fail to see anything hypocritical in my views. Please look at where I started my post with the words "Let me see if I can explain why I feel this way..." I am stating my position on the matter and why I feel the way I do about it...

And to you point that ALL religions believe in a soul... well there are quite a few that don't believe in a soul. Here are just a few (Aladura, Epicureanism, Falun Gong , Greek Religion , Taoism) And even fewer believe in reincarnation. Even this doesn't prove anything since the different religions around the world and through the centuries are derived from similar ancient beliefs. It only makes sense that there are unifying themes throughout the major religions in the world. None of that makes it right.

One more thing to consider if you really want to see where I am coming from... Take the time and research religion. I mean really get to the core of the origins of religion. You will find a time-line of one belief battling another, major changes in philosophy, refinements and alterations. Stories from one religion and time being adopted and changed for another. Just try to find one belief system that has held true through the ages. Even Jesus was late to the scene. There were prophets before him that had almost the identical stories, performed the same miracles and were even crucified on a cross.

Religion and beliefs are a very powerful things. The majority of people in this world NEED the comfort of religion and the thought of a happy afterlife. They NEED a way to cope with the loss of loved ones and a soul fits that need. But that doesn't make it true. It's nothing more than passed down fairy tales that are meant to comfort and explain the unexplainable. Over the years religion will continue to change and adapt as it has in the past to fit the times until one day when the religious majority becomes the religious minority and it fades into the history books like the Greek Gods of the past

 

[cam elle toe]

I fail to see anything hypocritical in my views. Please look at where I started my post with the words "Let me see if I can explain why I feel this way..." I am stating my position on the matter and why I feel the way I do about it...

And to you point that ALL religions believe in a soul... well there are quite a few that don't believe in a soul. Here are just a few (Aladura, Epicureanism, Falun Gong , Greek Religion , Taoism) And even fewer believe in reincarnation. Even this doesn't prove anything since the different religions around the world and through the centuries are derived from similar ancient beliefs. It only makes sense that there are unifying themes throughout the major religions in the world. None of that makes it right.

One more thing to consider if you really want to see where I am coming from... Take the time and research religion. I mean really get to the core of the origins of religion. You will find a time-line of one belief battling another, major changes in philosophy, refinements and alterations. Stories from one religion and time being adopted and changed for another. Just try to find one belief system that has held true through the ages. Even Jesus was late to the scene. There were prophets before him that had almost the identical stories, performed the same miracles and were even crucified on a cross.

Religion and beliefs are a very powerful things. The majority of people in this world NEED the comfort of religion and the thought of a happy afterlife. They NEED a way to cope with the loss of loved ones and a soul fits that need. But that doesn't make it true. It's nothing more than passed down fairy tales that are meant to comfort and explain the unexplainable. Over the years religion will continue to change and adapt as it has in the past to fit the times until one day when the religious majority becomes the religious minority and it fades into the history books like the Greek Gods of the past

I agree with everything you said in the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs...and apologise. I re read my post and saw that I had the word YOU in there...I certainly didnt meean YOU Tim...(although it deifinitely reads that way) I should have typed THEY...as in a general "they".
I HAVE studied different religions and theories...thats how I've come to have the beliefs I do. I am NOT as I stated "religious" per se...and I am still reading and learning.
Its funny how a lot of you are calling them "Fairy Tales" though, when the majority of the Bible is full of "horror stories."