The sex trade...

[Alien Allen]

I don't have much to add to this thread as my own feelings on the subject have been covered in several posts.

I take no issue with the sex trade per se, only I wish it was legal and therefore regulated to insure the safety and health of all workers. Then, it would be taxed and we wouldn't spend law enforcement dollars on general prostitution sweeps and could focus on illegal sexual activities like child porn and sexual enslavement.

We have leaders that have always thought you could legislate honesty, decency and morality.

They are utter failures at it so they like to waste their time along with our money and resources trying to fight the impossible.

I have two daughters and I would be very disappointed if they chose the path of a stripper, hooker or porn star. But they were raised with opportunities to avoid those being necessary or desirable. To the women who either choose otherwise or are left with those as their best options it is not for me to judge.

 

[satinbutterfly]

What's strange to me is that these women are applauded for what they do. A lot of you are saying that's their best option.

My mom raised three of us on $5.25 an hour, minimum wage at the time. She worked her ass off, and didn't take the easy way so that we could have lots of 'stuff'. We made do without. She's now the office manager, making seriously good money. She didn't come from money. She didn't have money. But she worked for what she wanted, and she got there, and she taught me not to take the easy way out, but to work for what I want.

That's not their best option. You may have to work harder, and your kids may have less, but I'm proud of my mom and how hard she worked to take care of us. I don't carry the guilt that my mom degraded herself so she could get me a playstation.

Personally, I think they're choosing to degrade themselves and take the easy money and teaching their kids it's ok to do such things to have 'stuff'., vs. working their ass off to provide for their kids, and teaching them that if you work hard, you can get what you want.

How many stories out there are there about women who came from shit backgrounds, different races, and ended up getting what they wanted because they worked for it? How many single moms are out there right now, not degrading themselves, but instead are working their asses off to feed their kids working at McDonalds or BurgerKing? Why aren't we thanking them for their dedication to their kids?

Furthermore, I find it seriously impacts the way women are seen in society. Women are paid less then men for the same job. We aren't respected as much when we do work our asses off and get promoted, because most people think we had to sleep our way to the top to get there, vs. it being based on we're the best person for the job.

 

[pjbleek]

my wife is an officer of a pharmaceutical company and she gets paid well, but she told me that if she was a man in her position she would be making 10-20% more. the diversity in pay is amazing.....I remember my mom being a stay at home mom taking care of us five kids during the 70s....my dad owned his own business (trucking) and he didn't "pay" himself a salary because he would only take money to buy groceries. but my parents were children of the depression and they knew how to survive only the bare necessities. So, yes, I am humble for my folks teaching me the value of a dollar.

 

[Tangerine]

What's strange to me is that these women are applauded for what they do. A lot of you are saying that's their best option.

My mom raised three of us on $5.25 an hour, minimum wage at the time. She worked her ass off, and didn't take the easy way so that we could have lots of 'stuff'. We made do without.

That's not their best option. You may have to work harder, and your kids may have less, but I'm proud of my mom and how hard she worked to take care of us. I don't carry the guilt that my mom degraded herself so she could get me a playstation.

Personally, I think they're choosing to degrade themselves and take the easy money, vs. working their ass off to provide for their kids, and teaching them that having 'stuff' isn't what it's all about.

How many stories out there are there about women who came from shit backgrounds, different races, and ended up getting what they wanted because they worked for it? How many single moms are out there right now, not degrading themselves, but instead are working their asses off to feed their kids working at McDonalds or BurgerKing? Why aren't we thanking them for their dedication to their kids?

Furthermore, I find it seriously impacts the way women are seen in society. Women are paid less then men for the same job. We aren't respected as much when we do work our asses off and get promoted, because most people think we had to sleep our way to the top to get there, vs. it being based on we're the best person for the job.

A lot to tackle here, hopefully you'll still be speaking to me when I'm done

I don't think that anyone is saying it's their "best option" - at least for me, that would imply that dancing is somehow "bad" and another way to earn a living is "better" or "best." If there's no moral judgement attached to it, how can it be qualified on a scale that includes "best?"

You seem to have already established for yourself that it's "degrading" - so why ask if others agree when you're so absolute? Do you leave room for the idea that others don't think it's degrading - including the vast majority of people that actually DO it? Personally I think it would qualify as more "empowering" in that of the two people involved in the transaction, who is usually the most embarrassed and ashamed of their behavior? The person paying for sexual services or the one providing them? There's a lot more MEN lying about where they spent their time and money than women.

I don't think you can say that someone working as a dancer doesn't also work very hard and "bust their ass." The hours are usually shitty, and most women work pretty hard to keep themselves in tip-top shape to look as good as possible. Plus they often have to put up with real assholes in their work environment, which can really wear someone down quickly. The part that I hand out the "praise" for - is that often by working in a job that pays way more, they can work FEWER hours and therefore have much more time to actually be with the kids - as opposed to leaving with daycare or sitters while they toil in a minimum wage job.

Finally - the glass ceiling argument. (Here's where my opinion may get me injured, but hey, I always say what I believe - even if unpopular) Frankly, yes, the perception of sleeping your way to the top does exist in far too many places. Unfortunately, it exists because even in this day and age there are still plenty of women who DO sleep their way to the top. It's a shame that bad behavior of some seeps over onto the majority of women who DON'T, but it happens. Much like the fact that one particular race commits a huge majority of crime in this country tends to make people fear that everyone of that color is likely to be a criminal. And most importantly, I believe the unequal pay scale exists not out of sexism or a "degraded" perception, but as a result of the fact that women are far less likely to have the career longevity of men. Most women in the US do not work at a career for 30-35 years and then retire. Men do. Women more often than not choose (and this is certainly not a BAD thing) to devote a good portion of their adult lives to raising children. And that is a time consuming and demanding process that carries great value in our society. Personally, I think it's fantastic when one parent can stay home full time - even if only for the first few years of a kids life. But the tradeoff for that - from a business perspective, is that not nearly as many women are climbing the career ladder with the same goals and at the same pace as men. And that fact seriously skews the statistics about salaries. If you have four men with 30 years each into a career compared to four women, 1 of whom worked the whole 30 years, 2 who left after 15 and q who only put in 5 years - you're going to see a huge disparity in pay if you compare their salaries side-by-side. And that's how a lot of the statistical models work.

Women, as a rule, have a lot more options than men. There are lots of different scenarios in which married women work full time, work some and then become full-time parents, never work and live off rich husbands etc etc. For men, we pretty much have no choice: It's expected that we will find a career at a young age and work at it every day of our adult lives until we're old enough (or successful enough) to retire.

 

[Brujahpriest]

Honestly I am of slightly mixed opinions on this subject:

On the topic of Women's rights and equal rights and all that... I don't believe porn has a direct influence on society for this. Sure there are hornball individuals that will personify that type of issue. But the issue of women's equality has existed for a very, very long time. Yes porn and prostitution have always been there, but honestly I find it to be more of a byproduct of human nature more than a byproduct of the inequality of treatment between the sexes. Honestly people (not just men) are addicted to sex by nature, we are bound by the natural imperative to procreate and we have the added benefit of really enjoying it. So honestly even if things were equal women in all industries got paid the same as men (mind you in my industry I rarely hear of inequities in pay and it usually comes down the person not having the same abilities as another, not where they place their gonads), and if the majority of people in society wanted for nothing financially we would still have porn and prostitution, because in the end we all love sex!

As far as this being the "easy" way out? Yes there are some that treat it as the "easy" way out, and those are generally the women you see as being degraded and you normally don't see that sort of thing in regulated Porn/Prostitution/etc. But as with all things in life there is the other side of the coin. Watching interviews with some of the big names you find that in the world of porn, women actually _want_ to be doing what they are doing and men can often be the second class citizen. (The same with prostitution, Series on HBO featuring the Moonlight Bunny Ranch was really enlightening - very few if any of the women there cited economic hardships or life hardships as their reason for doing it. They like sex and like our guidance counselors used to say, find a job that allows you to do what you like!

 

[GuesSAngel]

Yes strippers, porn stars, and hookers.

First off, strippers are not in the sex trade, it's adult entertainment...so you should seperate the two

What are your thoughts? Nothing wrong with making a buck off of silly men wanting to give strippers their money in hopes of something more? Porn stars making big bucks off of men wanting to watch them do whatever? Hookers getting money for providing sex?

My thoughts are there is nothing wrong with making a buck off of guys when they might think they are getting more. It's all a fantasy world...the guys think that you are in love with them...but you're not. You're really after their money . Porn Stars and hookers, there are just people that love to have sex and make a living out of it...why should we condemn that?

Do you feel any of these trades have a negative affect on women in society?

No. It's society that has a negative affect on anything involving being naked or sex.

If you're ok with it, how would you feel if your daughter went into one of these trades? Would you be supportive and proud they're using their body, instead of their intellect, for money?

It's not something to be proud of, but would I allow it? yes. I would make sure that it was in a good area, look at the types of customers that come in and the way that management runs the building.

Do you think it's ok because men are willing to pay for these things? I've heard a few say they should do it because they can. Do you think people should sell drugs, steal, and kill because they can, and because it pays well? They need to feed their children too after all.

Stripping = legal. Porn = legal. Prostitution = legal (in some places).
Drugs = illegal. Stealing = illegal. Kill = illegal

Do you see where I'm going with that? lol



What's strange to me is that these women are applauded for what they do. A lot of you are saying that's their best option.

They are applauded b/c it takes a lot to get on stage half naked/ fully naked. Of course it's am option it's a job that they chose.

My mom raised three of us on $5.25 an hour, minimum wage at the time. She worked her ass off, and didn't take the easy way so that we could have lots of 'stuff'. We made do without. She's now the office manager, making seriously good money. She didn't come from money. She didn't have money. But she worked for what she wanted, and she got there, and she taught me not to take the easy way out, but to work for what I want.

Good for your mom for your mom for keeping her clothes on. But dancers work just as hard to support their family. There are not always single moms that are working as strippers, there are some that actually have a husband and kids...house and a dog.

That's not their best option. You may have to work harder, and your kids may have less, but I'm proud of my mom and how hard she worked to take care of us. I don't carry the guilt that my mom degraded herself so she could get me a playstation.

I've been dancing for 7+ years. I show up to my job and WORK just as hard as anyone else to pay my bills. I come home tired and have my good days and my bad days.
Personally, I think they're choosing to degrade themselves and take the easy money and teaching their kids it's ok to do such things to have 'stuff'., vs. working their ass off to provide for their kids, and teaching them that if you work hard, you can get what you want.

I cannot stand society today that views any naked woman as degrading herself. If anyone is naked people turn away. What the hell is so wrong with the naked body? Americans as a whole are PRUDE. What about models that pose naked for art and get paid? I guess we should take out all beautiful pieces of art that are in museums b/c that's degrading...burn the nude! I even got dirty looks for breastfeeding in public...why? b/c even though my boob was covered it's still disgusting to some people. America needs to lighten the hell up.

I'm teaching my kids that it's okay to do what you want in life and you can still work hard while doing it to get what you want.

How many stories out there are there about women who came from shit backgrounds, different races, and ended up getting what they wanted because they worked for it? How many single moms are out there right now, not degrading themselves, but instead are working their asses off to feed their kids working at McDonalds or BurgerKing? Why aren't we thanking them for their dedication to their kids?

How about we just thank every mother that tries to support their family?

Furthermore, I find it seriously impacts the way women are seen in society. Women are paid less then men for the same job. We aren't respected as much when we do work our asses off and get promoted, because most people think we had to sleep our way to the top to get there, vs. it being based on we're the best person for the job.

Society will always look down on women. Every race and gender can be looked down on some way that will affect their job. It's not just women. It can also be a black man, an asian man...even a white man.

 

[sophie]

Thank you for that GuessAngel. I knew on a board this size that I couldn't possibly be the only stripper around. Here's some of my thoughts...

At the risk of sounding like a cow, Satinbutterfly, your post reaaaaaally offended me. (And clearly GA too) If you have never worked as a stripper, you have absolutely no grounds or rights to declare it degrading or the easy way out or anything else for that matter. I have never been to Italy, so I haven't got a leg to stand on to begin judging it.

Stripping is absolutely NOT the easy way out. It's HARD work. Especially when you're a single mum. You work long, late hours and then have to get up all day with a child. Strippers without kids probably get to sleep in. Single mum strippers do not. Your child still needs breakfast, no matter that you didn't get home until 4am. Not to mention, it is a physically strenuous job. You're on your feet constantly and you always have to be 'on'. There's no slacking on the job, no going on Facebook and zoning out. Dancing is a very physical activity. Have you ever been to a bar or a wedding and danced for hours? You know how tired that makes you? Imagine doing it every night for 8 hours.

On top of that, you get to deal with not only the men who think that simply because you dance in front of them that this makes you their property...but you also get to deal with small minded people who look down on you because they deem their jobs more important or worthy. I cannot tell you how many times I have been called a whore or had people wrinkle their nose when they found out my job. It's a continuous and losing battle, trying to fight against the stereotypes and the prejudices held by so m any people. I'm not sure why it is that people think they should be able to treat a woman badly simply because she chooses to be a stripper. THAT is much more degrading than the work itself.

Which, come to think of it, the work isn't even degrading. You choose what you want to do. You choose if you're going to have a costume or a persona. You choose where you work. You choose how far you want to go. You are in 100% control. How is that degrading? I worked hard to get my body into shape and don't really have a problem with nudity. Have sat at Bronte Beach topless on many occasions.

As for the wage thing...I probably could have taken a much lower paying job. I wanted better for my daughter. I used my tips to pay my way through Uni, at which point I got the professional 9-5 job. I was tired of struggling to provide the basics to my child. I was tired of having her get sick and having to buy Panadol for her mean that the phone bill wouldn't get paid. I was tired of not being able to give her pretty clothes and nice toys. I was tired of not being able to keep her standard of living where it had been when we were a two parent family. I wanted her to eat fresh fruit and vegetables instead of cheaper processed crap. I wanted her to be able to go fun places and enrol in activities that would enrich her life. I wanted to be able to take her on holidays to Brazil or Poland or Canada, so she'd know where she came from. I'd been poor. I'd struggled. I'd taken Centrelink and done the minimum wage server thing. Stripping was better for us.

I guess, long story short, I was really offended by your post.

 

[dt3]

It's simple supply and demand. Women control the supply, men control the demand. If a man's supply of women willing to show him boobs is low, he then has the option to pay a woman willing to meet the demand.

And even if every man on earth was castrated, there would still be plenty of men willing to pay to see breasts. :nod:

 

[GuesSAngel]

Thank you for that GuessAngel. I knew on a board this size that I couldn't possibly be the only stripper around. Here's some of my thoughts...

At the risk of sounding like a cow, Satinbutterfly, your post reaaaaaally offended me. (And clearly GA too) If you have never worked as a stripper, you have absolutely no grounds or rights to declare it degrading or the easy way out or anything else for that matter. I have never been to Italy, so I haven't got a leg to stand on to begin judging it.

Stripping is absolutely NOT the easy way out. It's HARD work. Especially when you're a single mum. You work long, late hours and then have to get up all day with a child. Strippers without kids probably get to sleep in. Single mum strippers do not. Your child still needs breakfast, no matter that you didn't get home until 4am. Not to mention, it is a physically strenuous job. You're on your feet constantly and you always have to be 'on'. There's no slacking on the job, no going on Facebook and zoning out. Dancing is a very physical activity. Have you ever been to a bar or a wedding and danced for hours? You know how tired that makes you? Imagine doing it every night for 8 hours.

On top of that, you get to deal with not only the men who think that simply because you dance in front of them that this makes you their property...but you also get to deal with small minded people who look down on you because they deem their jobs more important or worthy. I cannot tell you how many times I have been called a whore or had people wrinkle their nose when they found out my job. It's a continuous and losing battle, trying to fight against the stereotypes and the prejudices held by so m any people. I'm not sure why it is that people think they should be able to treat a woman badly simply because she chooses to be a stripper. THAT is much more degrading than the work itself.

Which, come to think of it, the work isn't even degrading. You choose what you want to do. You choose if you're going to have a costume or a persona. You choose where you work. You choose how far you want to go. You are in 100% control. How is that degrading? I worked hard to get my body into shape and don't really have a problem with nudity. Have sat at Bronte Beach topless on many occasions.

As for the wage thing...I probably could have taken a much lower paying job. I wanted better for my daughter. I used my tips to pay my way through Uni, at which point I got the professional 9-5 job. I was tired of struggling to provide the basics to my child. I was tired of having her get sick and having to buy Panadol for her mean that the phone bill wouldn't get paid. I was tired of not being able to give her pretty clothes and nice toys. I was tired of not being able to keep her standard of living where it had been when we were a two parent family. I wanted her to eat fresh fruit and vegetables instead of cheaper processed crap. I wanted her to be able to go fun places and enrol in activities that would enrich her life. I wanted to be able to take her on holidays to Brazil or Poland or Canada, so she'd know where she came from. I'd been poor. I'd struggled. I'd taken Centrelink and done the minimum wage server thing. Stripping was better for us.

I guess, long story short, I was really offended by your post.

:thumbup:clap:clap:clap:clap:thumbup

 

[GuesSAngel]

and everything i didn't say she was able to say for me

 

[Dakota Jim]

I thought by the title of this OP you meant what would we trade for sex, I was inventorying my stuff.

 

[Maulds]

I think you are forgetting three facts:

Men strip also.
Men are also in pornos.
And men also sell themselves for sex.

Women are just better at all three of the above.

Yeah...true...can't argue it

 

[Maulds]

I thought by the title of this OP you meant what would we trade for sex, I was inventorying my stuff.

heh...true

 

[satinbutterfly]

First of all, this is simply my opinion. I'm agnostic, for the record, so I'm not bible thumper trying to say all strippers are going to hell.

My opinion is thus: stripping is morally wrong, in my opinion. It's using sex, yes sex, to earn money, no matter how you try to soften it. Men don't go there for the art... they go there to fantasize about having sex with women. The strippers may not actually have sex with the men that go there, but you're still selling the idea of sex.

Secondly, when some try to say that it hurts no one, I can certainly beg to differ. There are many men who go to such establishments who are married. In my opinion, when they go to such establishments, they are being untrue to their spouse. To those women who are ok with such, it's not, but to those women who have no idea that their husband is spending hundreds of dollars to fantasize about other women, and would not feel comfortable with that, it is extremely hurtful. As with any such addiction, as it has become for many men, it hurts their families, their spouses, and certainly their children. The same can be said of any addiction, such as alcohol, gambling, or drugs. All of which can be considered, not by all, but by some, morally unethical.

It has also been said that because I've never been a stripper, I have no grounds to say that it's wrong. In this case, I can say with absolute certainty that I find it morally unethical, just as I do with stealing, drugs, etc. That would be like saying because I've never stolen anything I can't consider it wrong. In this case, not an applicable argument.

As far as it being degrading, I don't take it as being respected when a man looks at me as simply a sex object, and not as a person. This is, of course, my personal take on things. Personally, I'd much rather be respected for the person I am, the whole person, and not just what I look like on the outside.

As far as being naked being accepted in society, and it being prudish not to want to see naked people, well quite franky I can assure you there's only one person I want to see naked, and that's my SO. I think that many others are with me in that. I'd much rather not have to see naked people, and I think those that want a naked society should seek asylum in nudist colonies, where there are groups of such people who find nothing wrong with it. Modesty is a virtue, IMO, and so it shall remain in my eyes.

It's not my intention to offend others by my opinions, and I certainly agree to disagree here. I know everyone doesn't find selling sex morally unethical, and I accept that. I personally do.

My main intention with this thread, was to point out a common theme, and that is while most people (mainly men) say they are ok with the sex trade, none of them would want their daughters involved in it. A bit hypocritical I think.

I also understand that guys are involved in the sex trade as well, but they are quite the minority, nor are they looked down upon like women are for being involved in it.

 

[sophie]

My opinion is thus: stripping is morally wrong, in my opinion. It's using sex, yes sex, to earn money, no matter how you try to soften it. Men don't go there for the art... they go there to fantasize about having sex with women. The strippers may not actually have sex with the men that go there, but you're still selling the idea of sex.


So do magazines...tv shows...movies...songs...music videos...hell many outfits you can buy at Walmart do the same.


Secondly, when some try to say that it hurts no one, I can certainly beg to differ. There are many men who go to such establishments who are married. In my opinion, when they go to such establishments, they are being untrue to their spouse. To those women who are ok with such, it's not, but to those women who have no idea that their husband is spending hundreds of dollars to fantasize about other women, and would not feel comfortable with that, it is extremely hurtful. As with any such addiction, as it has become for many men, it hurts their families, their spouses, and certainly their children. The same can be said of any addiction, such as alcohol, gambling, or drugs. All of which can be considered, not by all, but by some, morally unethical.


By this logic, let's also declare cars, golf, poker and the Internet as immoral. Many men get addicted to those and use them as time away from their wives. And if we're drawing the line at strippers because men use them to be basically untrue to their spouses, then PLEASE lock up all the single women wandering the streets that men fantasise about or cheat with. Odds are a hell of a lot higher that a man will cheat with Susie walking down the road than with Sophie on the pole because Sophie will get fired for it, Susie will not. And for as many women that would care that her husband goes to a strip club, there are just as many that won't care. Not to mention there are a million other things that the husband is likely spending money on without his wife's knowledge or consent (as likely she is too). If we're outlawing everything that people get addicted to or do behind their spouse's backs, then it would be a sad sad little world we'd have left.

It has also been said that because I've never been a stripper, I have no grounds to say that it's wrong. In this case, I can say with absolute certainty that I find it morally unethical, just as I do with stealing, drugs, etc. That would be like saying because I've never stolen anything I can't consider it wrong. In this case, not an applicable argument.

This is true. Or would be if I had ever said you couldn't say it was wrong. What I said was you couldn't say it was the easy way out or degrading, both of which are accurate assertions that I stand behind.

As far as it being degrading, I don't take it as being respected when a man looks at me as simply a sex object, and not as a person. This is, of course, my personal take on things. Personally, I'd much rather be respected for the person I am, the whole person, and not just what I look like on the outside.

Then, by all means, don't become a stripper. Not everyone shares your view. Just because I don't like black jeans (shudder) doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to wear them. It simply means I shouldn't wear them. Part of the price of freedom is allowing others to be free, after all.

As far as being naked being accepted in society, and it being prudish not to want to see naked people, well quite franky I can assure you there's only one person I want to see naked, and that's my SO. I think that many others are with me in that. I'd much rather not have to see naked people, and I think those that want a naked society should seek asylum in nudist colonies, where there are groups of such people who find nothing wrong with it. Modesty is a virtue, IMO, and so it shall remain in my eyes.

Then don't go to a strip club or a topless beach. Simple solution! Nobody ever suggested a society without clothes, but there ARE venues where this is acceptable and they are designed so that if you don't wish to see it, you simply don't go there.

Why would your moral objection to something make you feel like you should get to dictate how other people live?

 

[Minor Axis]

Ok, here is my wandering response...

Might as well admit, porno has main streamed as far as demand goes. I also think as a society, the U.S. is much more hung up about sex than Europe or maybe a better word is hypocritical. We say it's bad, but we can't get enough of it. I've watched 2 shows on HBO G-String Divas and the documentary, Cat House (yeah right, just interchange "documentary" with "voyer"). The camera actually follows the couple into the room for some good R-Rated action.

While there might be high class strippers somewhere in the world living the good life, the environment in G-String Divas seems awfully seedy to me. Is it moral? If you can make $100k per year stripping and you can stand it, I see it as a viable option if it's your only option. Is that immoral? I'm resisting saying yes, but overall it is a negative environment. But it could be a means towards a better existence. Then again maybe not. Hows that for wishy washy?

In comparison, the girls in Cat House even though they are selling themselves for sex, believe it or not the environment seems healthier at least on the surface. Is it immoral? I tend to say yes, but i don't think it should be illegal. In other words, it should not divert police from other, much more important issues adversely affecting society. How much of a difference is it when two people have sex just for fun, versus having sex and asking to be paid for it? I guess the difference is having sex with any ole stranger that comes along. But then, what are people doing at night clubs?

For myself when I was young and single, I don't think I could have accepted a girl friend who stripped or especially who was a prostitute. Bottom line, those are my personal morals but I would not try to place my standards on others.

As far as being naked being accepted in society, and it being prudish not to want to see naked people, well quite franky I can assure you there's only one person I want to see naked, and that's my SO. I think that many others are with me in that. I'd much rather not have to see naked people, and I think those that want a naked society should seek asylum in nudist colonies, where there are groups of such people who find nothing wrong with it. Modesty is a virtue, IMO, and so it shall remain in my eyes.

A 100% nude society would be a horrendous eye-sore, yech!! It would only work for a select pick.

 

[satinbutterfly]

Please don't put words into my mouth... that's not good form in debate, and simply makes you look silly.

I've never said stripping should be illegal. I just said I find it morally unethical. I certainly have no wish to impose my personal opinions on others. I just simply like to state them, and be heard, as well as hear others, and occasionally have a good debate.

If you chose to strip for money, that's your choice. I wouldn't do it, but that's just me. I certainly don't expect you to live by my opinions and ethics, no more than I would live by yours.

 

[Minor Axis]

Please don't put words into my mouth... that's not good form in debate, and simply makes you look silly.

I've never said stripping should be illegal. I just said I find it morally unethical. I certainly have no wish to impose my personal opinions on others. I just simply like to state them, and be heard, as well as hear others, and occasionally have a good debate.

If you chose to strip for money, that's your choice. I wouldn't do it, but that's just me. I certainly don't expect you to live by my opinions and ethics, no more than I would live by yours.

Are you talking to me?

 

[satinbutterfly]

Are you talking to me? If so you have misinterpreted what I said which made no reference to you in the bulk of my post. That is my opinion, how I view the subject matter, not how I view you. I added your quote as an after thought and made a non-critical comment after the quote, not before... so you can ease up and not jump to conclusions.

No no no... Sophie.

 

[Minor Axis]

No no no... Sophie.

Gee, as your post followed mine, maybe including a quote representing who you were responding to would be a good option. :nod: