The Bible. Fact or Fiction?

[pladecalvo]

Maybe you've all ready discussed it in this forum and I guess this thread is not the place to start it, but how can you be so sure there is no god and nothingness after physical death? That too is a matter of faith.

I’m not saying "There is no god". All I’m saying is that there is no evidence for the existence of any kind of god or supernatural entity and therefore, no logical reason to believe in them. All the evidence that we have from reality gives us good reason for believing there is no such thing. There remains an infinitesimally small possibility that there may be gods, which cannot be completely ruled out - but that would also apply to fairies, unicorns and hobgoblins and mermaids. We look at the lack of evidence for those supernatural entities and accept that they are myths....why do we not do the same for other supernatural entities like gods and say .... given what we understand about people, mythology, science, etc. that it is very unlikely that the myths and legends that have been randomly and arbitrarily dreamed up by ignorant people 1000s of years ago have any basis in reality.

 

[groundpounder]

Are faith and logic mutually exclusive?

 

[Obdurate]

God, thank you groundpounder.

 

[pladecalvo]

Are faith and logic mutually exclusive?

IMO there are but you may be able to convince me otherwise. Logic is based on oberservations, the scientific process, knowledge passed on from credible sources, understanding logical thought.

Faith is not knowing answers to hard questions, thus making them up based on legends passed down by shepards who thought the world was flat. [FONT=&quot]

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[Obdurate]

Why do you try to discredit faith so much?

Here's one definition of logic (I only mention it because you can apply it to faith),
a particular method of reasoning or argumentation

It's tiring seeing religious people argue using only the bible and push their views but it's also tiring seeing the opposing side saying how illogical the religious side is.

Both are logic. It just depends on what logic you want to go with, or, you can use both, which I use.

 

[pladecalvo]

Why do you try to discredit faith so much?

What I'm trying to discredit is faith that is masquerading as "truth."

It's tiring seeing religious people argue using only the bible and push their views but it's also tiring seeing the opposing side saying how illogical the religious side is.

..but they are illogical when it comes to god belief. Everyday of their lives, theists use logic and reason to dismiss thousand of supernatural entities but when it comes to their god they bundle up all that same logic and reason and throw it out of the window. Why don't they apply the same logic and reason with which they dismiss leprechauns to their god belief?

 

[Obdurate]

I had more typed but then realized that this isn't something I want to continue so I leave you with this:

Why are you asking me why they do things? I'm not giving you a blanket statement like you've been making.
Logic is
1.the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference. 2.a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic. 3.the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study. 4.reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move. 5.convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts.
Whether or not you want to agree with their logic means nothing to me. But you should really accept that it is indeed logic.
I'm out.

 

[groundpounder]

IMO there are but you may be able to convince me otherwise. Logic is based on oberservations, the scientific process, knowledge passed on from credible sources, understanding logical thought.

Faith is not knowing answers to hard questions, thus making them up based on legends passed down by shepards who thought the world was flat.

given the established, empirical definition of logic, it would seem you may be off on these definitions. But I will waste no time arguing semantics or trying to convince you of anything.

What makes a source credible? The grind is this: many logical, smart and lucid people (present) see the Bible as a credible source. Many logical, smart and lucid people (you) do not.

I believe that Faith and logic are not mutually exclusive, and not just because I'm an intelligent believer. You and I both have faith that the logic we are applying is correct and from credible sources. I hope I'm right and you better hope you are. I see no harm in believing in something or having faith in something that I cannot see, feel or touch. Faith is not the suspension of logic, I don't think. As it relates to Christianity, I believe it to be the careful application of logic and the suspension of the arrogant thought the we, as humans, are the pinnacle of existence and all there is.

I question the existence of God, Jesus as the Messiah, The Holy Trinity et al constantly. It is a never-ending spiritual battle that rages deep in my mind that oscillates on my next thought.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

IMO there are but you may be able to convince me otherwise. Logic is based on oberservations, the scientific process, knowledge passed on from credible sources, understanding logical thought.

Faith is not knowing answers to hard questions, thus making them up based on legends passed down by shepards who thought the world was flat.

Let me ask you something...

Can you see gravity?

The only LOGICAL, EDUCATED answer...Is no

Does that mean it doesn't exist? Just because a scientists told me about it.....Because I read it?

Why does it exist? I mean we can feel it right? We have experienced it right, we just CALL it gravity....Essentially without some kind of name, Gravity is nothing.

GOD is the same.....I have experienced something powerful, I have read about it, but that is not what convinced me, someone told me about it but that didn't do it either.

I experienced it and gave it a name. Is that wrong? Or just beneath some "intellectuals":cool

 

[pladecalvo]

I see no harm in believing in something or having faith in something that I cannot see, feel or touch. .

Fair enough..It's when people tell me that they KNOW through faith that the problems start.

Let me ask you something...

Can you see gravity?

The only LOGICAL, EDUCATED answer...Is no

Gravity can be detected by other senses. The fact that you have weight proves gravity, the fact that things fall down is proof for gravity. The mathematical calculations prove it. The next time that you release a ball from your hand and it travels upwards, then you can argue the existence of gravity. Air can be sensed as well by other means and proven in many many ways.

 

[groundpounder]

Fair enough..It's when people tell me that they KNOW through faith that the problems start.

Gravity can be detected by other senses. The fact that you have weight proves gravity, the fact that things fall down is proof for gravity. The mathematical calculations prove it. The next time that you release a ball from your hand and it travels upwards, then you can argue the existence of gravity. Air can be sensed as well by other means and proven in many many ways.

I'm a little disappointed that this is all you pulled from those two quotes. :cool

 

[pladecalvo]

I'm a little disappointed that this is all you pulled from those two quotes. :cool

Ah well! It is nearly 1 o' clock in the morning here. Can't be on top of it all the time eh?

 

[groundpounder]

I'll grant you that

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Fair enough..It's when people tell me that they KNOW through faith that the problems start.

Gravity can be detected by other senses. The fact that you have weight proves gravity, the fact that things fall down is proof for gravity. The mathematical calculations prove it. The next time that you release a ball from your hand and it travels upwards, then you can argue the existence of gravity. Air can be sensed as well by other means and proven in many many ways.

I hate to break this to you......But you missed it.

GRAVITY.....It's a name.....Essentially it's nothing, it's a title we give something that we experience every day.

Weight, that's a measurement of a force we still cannot prove We feel it, we experience it but you CANNOT "see" gravity.

If you don't believe me investigate some of Einsteins theories, go to the Science Section here on this forum and read up on what I have written and posted on String Theory.

Hell if we could simply "see" gravity" then we could probably find a way to manipulate it. I think you just missed the point though.

So I guess that means I am wrong