The Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki

[Maulds]

Silly GLing, we all know those babies arent alive yet :smiley24:

 

[IntruderLS1]

*fires the starting gun*

and we're off!

Not this time.

I'll be too busy out looking for small animals to slaughter for fun. Maybe refreshing myself in the Bible on the intricacies of nuclear warfare...

busy busy busy....

 

[Pudding Time]

It has always fascinated me that the most religious people are the ones that have this "blood lust". Embracing war, death, capital punishment etc... and to find real compassion in this world you have to look towards the progressive or liberal...

I just don't get it... and I have tried to understand... really I have

I've brought this up with Elle a few times. What I seem to find is that, the most Christian people, are non Christians.

 

[IntruderLS1]

So why not give them warning to evacuate the city?

We did.

 

[Elle]

So by dropping a nuclear weapon on a city with thousands of men, women and children was the only way to end the war? We knew that the pure display of power of these weapons would have been enough to change the most hardened commander. So why not give them warning to evacuate the city? You do not need to incinerate thousands of innocent people to get your point across. The removal of an empty city off the face of the earth would have been just as convincing. Or is that too much to ask for?

Agreed.

 

[Elle]

I have no compassion for murderers at all. I want them to spend every last day behind bars, never to walk the streets again. I just don't see the need to kill someone...

I think I just read a thread in the Inspiration thread about a $20 bill... that no matter if it was crumpled up and dirty that it was still worth $20... the same with a life, no matter how dirty or beat up, their life still has the same value. So are you saying that all life does not hold value? Or that the value of that persons life is now less than the need for your revenge/justice of that person? Again, I just don't get it...

And I would prefer if there were no abortions at all... I hate the fact that women get them and that there are so many women getting them.

Very profound.

 

[IntruderLS1]

No we didn't...

outlining terms of surrender for Japan. It was presented as an On July 26, Truman and other allied leaders issued The Potsdam Declarationultimatum and stated that the Allies would "strike the final blows upon Japan" but the atomic bomb was not mentioned.

No, you don't understand. We literally dropped leaflets over the city saying it was going to be destroyed.

...

Nevermind. I'm off. You can respond if you like, but do so in order to strike up coversation with somebody other than me.

 

[Pudding Time]

Not even the pilots of the Enola Gay knew what type of bomb they were dropping until Little Boy exploded.

 

[gLing]

I think I just read a thread in the Inspiration thread about a $20 bill... that no matter if it was crumpled up and dirty that it was still worth $20... the same with a life, no matter how dirty or beat up, their life still has the same value. So are you saying that all life does not hold value? Or that the value of that persons life is now less than the need for your revenge/justice of that person? Again, I just don't get it...

I guess I'm just an evil conservative because yes I believe the life of a sadistic killer has less value than the life of his/her victims and other innocent people who did nothing to anybody.

 

[gLing]

No we didn't...

outlining terms of surrender for Japan. It was presented as an On July 26, Truman and other allied leaders issued The Potsdam Declarationultimatum and stated that the Allies would "strike the final blows upon Japan" but the atomic bomb was not mentioned.

Don't know about the first bomb but I believed they warned them it would happen again if Japan did not surrender unconditionally.

 

[gLing]

Then you must also be ok with the fact that our courts have made mistakes and put innocent people to death. Our justice system is far from being perfect, so you must know that mistakes will happen...

Let me ask you a question... if your boyfriend was in the wrong place at the wrong time and was accused of murdering a family, then he was sentenced to death... yet you knew he was innocent, would you still be ok with the death penalty? Would you allow him to be executed because you know that even though the system isn't perfect, murderers are being put to death for the most part? Is it ok to break a few eggs making that omelet if one of your loved ones was one of those eggs...?

Actually no, I've stated before in another thread that the fact innocent people could be wrongfully executed would be enough reason for me to be against the death penalty. Not because I'm under the illusion that the life of a cold blooded murderer is of equal value to that of innocent people.

 

[juggler]

Another thread made me think of this. Do you think we were justified in dropping the A-Bombs on Japan to end WWII? Why or why not?

I think that it's easy to look back after 60 odd years and decide that it was either right or wrong. Decision makers at the time didn't have the benefit of hindsight to guide them! I find it telling, however, to note that no-one has used them since!!

 

[juggler]

The allies wiped out several cities in both Europe and Japan with carpet bombing during the war. How was using nukes any different from that?

At the risk of sounding childish with a "they started it" type post, but the carpet bombing of cities such as Dresden was in response to the mass bombings of British cities such as London and Coventry!
It was called The Blitz for a reason!!

And when it comes down to it, the use of the flying bomb was equally as horrific! This was in effect an un-guided missile that was launched in the general direction of London with enough fuel to reach it's target, at which point it dropped indicisriminately onto a civilian target!

The point I'm trying to make here is that war in itself causes decisions to be made that ordinarily no sane person would make.

 

[debbie t]

i have already said that we feel shame for the dresdon fire storm,but that was unintentional ,it occurred because of carpet bombing used on scale never used before,on munitions dumps,oil wells etc the wind conditions causing the fire storm,however hiroshima was intentional and hiroshima had very little there but one church(still standing) and lots of paper houses and civilians.(vaporised)

it is the second bomb i really have issue with,the point was proved ,the fear and horror instilled.

there seems to be a notion here that this atrocity was american.churchill was informed and involved in the development and eventual use of the bombs .the decision was made with the support and agreement of all the allies.we...that is everyone but germany and japan made the decision and so were responsible.

 

[All Else Failed]

Any survivor of any major injury is going to produce imagas like that. I'm not going to, but I could post for you images from car accidents, gunshot survivors, fall victums, etc... Let's not turn this into a propaganda war.



Mr. Szilard made an excellent observation here. As long as we're playing imagination though, why must we assume that Germany would have lost the war had they created two bombs. They wouldn't have used it on Manchester and Buffalo, it would have been London and York. England surrenders. The U.S. loses it's primary staging base, and must now work through Africa. German can turn all her power on Russia and push the Reds back to Russia where they would undoubtedly end up in truce. Germany begins rule of the 1000 year Reich as the leader of the whole European continent.



Japan had lost the ability to wage global war. That is true. But what most people don't know is that Japan spent the last several years prepairing for invasion of the mainland. They had secretly squirrled away a massive amount of equipment that we didn't know about. Our estimates of 1 million souls lost didn't take into account Japans hidden military resources.

I address earlier the "why" we couldn't simply accept their conditional surrender.



It was more than a test. If all we wanted to do was test detonate, we would have done it in the American south west like we did before. We didn't have the materials to make more immediatly. It was a gamble and projection of force in the hopes of deception, but it worked. Japan surrendered.



We did not pre-emptivly strike with the nukes. Japan pre-emptivly struck America using conventional means, which brought us into conflict. I don't think the word "preemptive" can be fairly used by any stretch.



In our defense, we didn't know that at the time. But if you take all those deaths from then until now, it is still a fraction of the number of lives that would have been required on both sides had we invaded.

The Japanese culture stood the potential to be completely destroyed by invasion. They fought for honor, and the mother island would be defended almost to the last man.

I could post them, but why doesn't everybody here look up the casualty numbers for the invasions accomplished during our island hopping campaign. Take those numbers, multiply them by thousands, and you start to get a pretty clear picture of what the alternative was.



Whatever.

So then thats a yes?

 

[All Else Failed]

It has always fascinated me that the most religious people are the ones that have this "blood lust". Embracing war, death, capital punishment etc... and to find real compassion in this world you have to look towards the progressive or liberal...

I just don't get it... and I have tried to understand... really I have

its because they're not truly religious in the purest sense. They are like everyone else: They make up their own morality and add some religious stuff they are comfortable with and ignore the rest. Not even religion can persuade some facets of their ego. Its not strange, everyone does it.

No, you don't understand. We literally dropped leaflets over the city saying it was going to be destroyed.

...

Nevermind. I'm off. You can respond if you like, but do so in order to strike up coversation with somebody other than me.

lol are you trying to justify terrorism and cold blooded murder with leaflets?

 

[IntruderLS1]

lol are you trying to justify terrorism and cold blooded murder with leaflets?

It was open warfare you jack. I think it was generous to give them a heads up we were going to blow the place to Mars before hand and give them a chance to get the flock out of dodge.

I know you live in a perfect, protected world, courtesy the U.S. military, but news flash... People die in war. Nothing fun or pretty about it. Loud. Scary. Shitty. People die.

It's the only way we have until the world is ready to be a new place.

How would you suggest we fight wars? "Oh, you attacked us for no reason... Please don't do that anymore. Oh, I see you're planning on enslaving that half of the world.... Please don't. Don't make me say it again. Don't make me say it again. I mean it. Don't make me say it again. One last warning... I'm telling you. Don't make me say it again.... etc...

Still waiting on your proof in Science BTW. Waiting on an answer in PM even.

 

[IntruderLS1]

its because they're not truly religious in the purest sense. They are like everyone else.....

Is it my imagination, or is religion brought up in non-religious threads primarily by people who hate religion? :confused

 

[Breath]

Is it my imagination, or is religion brought up in non-religious threads primarily by people who hate religion?

Search of the word "religion" in all posts by:

IntruderLS1 = 31 times in the last 3 months
GraceAbounds = 33 times in the last 3 months
All Else Failed = 95 times in the last 3 months

 

[IntruderLS1]

Search of the word "religion" in all posts by:

IntruderLS1 = 31 times in the last 3 months
GraceAbounds = 33 times in the last 3 months
All Else Failed = 95 times in the last 3 months

:24::24::24:

Why does nobody want to address the point that the Bomb saved lives both long and short term either?

(Figured since you're the go to person for research and answers tonight, I'll ask you. )