Ted Kennedy dies at 77

[dt3]

And for the record, although part of my post was sarcasm, the PM part was for realz

 

[nova]

And btw, Nova is the one who first made accusations of being attacked. Go check. I just asked if he was an idiot. That is not a statement of fact but a question.

Because I was and by you. Asking someone "Are you an idiot?" has the effect of being a rhetorical question, with the implied answer being that yes in fact the person being asked is an idiot. If I walk up to one of my coworkers and ask them "Are you an fing retard?" they will take that as an insult and rightly so.

Yet again, you have an alarming lack of comprehension of the english language.

ETA

Apologies to DT3 I was in the midst of posting when you put out your request. I will leave it at this...

 

[Minor Axis]

Alright, let's take the cat fighting to PM's and leave this thread for discussions about what a horrible person Ted Kennedy was, k thx

You are right. I will. Can't stand in the way of trashing the good Senator's memory.

Yet again, you have an alarming lack of comprehension of the english language.

No, that was Nova sarcasm I used on you, not an attack. I pray you are not an English major. Ok, done. If you want to continue send me a pm. I'll be happy to discuss it without without rancor if you care... or hey we could start a thread on forum English to make sure misunderstandings like this don't happen in the future?

 

[Peter Parka]

 

[Goddess]

:24::24::24::24::24:

 

[Minor Axis]

I hope not

That is really quite a sad sentiment on your part. Yeah he made mistakes, yes he crashed a car and killed someone, but to be fair don't you need to balance it against what he accomplished for every day people? Ok, so you probably don't think he helped working class people, but I do.

For perspective from the people in this forum who call themselves "conservatives" what is the threshold where you deserve to burn or be tormented basically for eternity? Such hatred for this person.

What about a guy who is responsible for 3000+ soldiers deaths, and countless walking wounded based on a sham war? Does he deserve any scorn or is he a hero? Kennedy does not even qualify for the same league as that guy.

 

[retro]

That is really quite a sad sentiment on your part. Yeah he made mistakes, yes he crashed a car and killed someone, but to be fair don't you need to balance it against what he accomplished for every day people? Ok, so you probably don't think he helped working class people, but I do.

For perspective from the people in this forum who call themselves "conservatives" what is the threshold where you deserve to burn or be tormented basically for eternity? Such hatred for this person.

What about a guy who is responsible for 3000+ soldiers deaths, and countless walking wounded based on a sham war? Does he deserve any scorn or is he a hero? Kennedy does not even qualify for the same league as that guy.

How do you feel about Truman and LBJ then?

 

[nova]

What about a guy who is responsible for 3000+ soldiers deaths, and countless walking wounded based on a sham war? Does he deserve any scorn or is he a hero? Kennedy does not even qualify for the same league as that guy.

I've already said that guy, who is no longer in charge, deserves to be swinging from the end of a rope, along with the idiots in congress who shirked their Constitutional duty and wrote him a blank check to do as he pleased.

Now how do you feel about the guy in charge, who's digging us deeper into a war thats likely unwinnable, condemning even more young Americans to death and disfigurement?

 

[Alien Allen]

That is really quite a sad sentiment on your part. Yeah he made mistakes, yes he crashed a car and killed someone, but to be fair don't you need to balance it against what he accomplished for every day people? Ok, so you probably don't think he helped working class people, but I do.

For perspective from the people in this forum who call themselves "conservatives" what is the threshold where you deserve to burn or be tormented basically for eternity? Such hatred for this person.

What about a guy who is responsible for 3000+ soldiers deaths, and countless walking wounded based on a sham war? Does he deserve any scorn or is he a hero? Kennedy does not even qualify for the same league as that guy.

As I stated earlier Kennedy is the poster child for what is wrong with this country. Due to his name he got away with something nobody else would. That was not a mistake he made. That was the action of a cold and calculated elitist. He was more worried about his career and damage to his name.

Nobody is held accountable anymore.

Good riddance to the last vestiges of Camelot.

Next time come up with something better than reducing the argument to comparisons with Bush. That is pretty stale and has nothing to do with this topic.

 

[Meirionnydd]

:thumbup

He is the sign of everything that is wrong in this country.

Where those elitists in power can get away with murder.

And where idiots keep re electing him.

Should have been him that was abandoned in that car on the bottom of the river.

I agree, he only got a 2 month suspended sentence for that right?

Absolutely ridiculous, I guess it shows how easily the powerful can exploit the Justice system to get away with nearly anything.

 

[Minor Axis]

Next time come up with something better than reducing the argument to comparisons with Bush. That is pretty stale and has nothing to do with this topic.

The degree of distain for leadership in this forum appears to parallel political fault lines all the way to death. I don't expect you guys to love him, but there is no christian charity whatsoever. Even if Bush walked in front of a bus tomorrow, I would not hope he burns forever. Or possibly I misread your intent. Maybe when you said you hoped he did not rest in peace, you meant he would be asked to reflect on the mistakes in his life. That would be ok too.

I've already said that guy, who is no longer in charge, deserves to be swinging from the end of a rope, along with the idiots in congress who shirked their Constitutional duty and wrote him a blank check to do as he pleased.

Now how do you feel about the guy in charge, who's digging us deeper into a war thats likely unwinnable, condemning even more young Americans to death and disfigurement?

To be fair, you were not around when most of the election stuff was going on, but before the election, there were really no conservative types in the forum bad mouthing Bush, I mean really bad mouthing him. Because despite the God awful leadership, they would still pick him, his follow-on, and the Republican party over any Democrat for philosophical reasons as in eventually we'll get a good Republican in there. In comparison, if you bother to look at Kennedy's legislative record, he did good things for people. The hatred for him does not appear balanced to me.

Now as far as Afghanistan, I was against the second Iraqi War before it started. If Obama gets us bogged down long term in Afghanistan, that will be unacceptable. The difference here, is that I won't go along with the flow, just because I think Democrats overall are a better choice for working class America. If he is screwing up, I'll be complaining just as loud as everyone else. We can't afford to be in an open-ended conflict. And you know those "guys" won't go away. If they are not outright fighting us, they will bide their time and wait for us to go away.

 

[dt3]

To be fair, you were not around when most of the election stuff was going on, but before the election, there were really no conservative types in the forum bad mouthing Bush, I mean really bad mouthing him. Because despite the God awful leadership, they would still pick him, his follow-on, and the Republican party over any Democrat for philosophical reasons as in eventually we'll get a good Republican in there. In comparison, if you bother to look at Kennedy's legislative record, he did good things for people. The hatred for him does not appear balanced to me.

So...what you're getting at is conservatives were looking for a strong conservative candidate? Would you seriously expect anybody to NOT want the person/party that most closely suits their values?

 

[nova]

there is no christian charity whatsoever.

Because some of us aren't Christian. I know I haven't been here long but I'm an avowed agnostic with a severe lack of "give a damn" for the well being of scum.

To be fair, you were not around when most of the election stuff was going on, but before the election, there were really no conservative types in the forum bad mouthing Bush, I mean really bad mouthing him. Because despite the God awful leadership, they would still pick him, his follow-on, and the Republican party over any Democrat for philosophical reasons as in eventually we'll get a good Republican in there. In comparison, if you bother to look at Kennedy's legislative record, he did good things for people. The hatred for him does not appear balanced to me.

Honestly, I'm at the point that as bad as GWB was, I'd prefer to have him back in the white house over dear leader. He only managed to bankrupt us at half the rate BHO is and at the least I could expect the media to be critical of his actions instead of pushing the propaganda line.

For that matter, as much as I despise the Hillibilly in Chief, I'd prefer to have him back than either of the other two.

But really what I want is someone who understands the concepts of

• Individual Liberty
• Rule of Law
• Limited federalist gov't
• Free markets

Now as far as Afghanistan, I was against the second Iraqi War before it started. If Obama gets us bogged down long term in Afghanistan, that will be unacceptable. The difference here, is that I won't go along with the flow, just because I think Democrats overall are a better choice for working class America. If he is screwing up, I'll be complaining just as loud as everyone else. We can't afford to be in an open-ended conflict. And you know those "guys" won't go away. If they are not outright fighting us, they will bide their time and wait for us to go away.

Well, we're in an open ended conflict and dear leader is sucking us further in. We are surging troops there as we speak, which while it worked somewhat for Iraq, is not likely to work in Afghanistan. I think by years end we're supposed to be plussed up to the tune of 50k troops. 5 of my coworkers have even been called up to provide field engineering support for Afghanistan, and trust me, when they send us engineers, the plan is to be there for a while.

And as a professional working man, I'd love an explanation of how you think wreaking economic destruction on the country is good for me. From my perspective, every time a Democrat talks about helping the working man, my paycheck just gets smaller and smaller.

 

[Minor Axis]

So...what you're getting at is conservatives were looking for a strong conservative candidate? Would you seriously expect anybody to NOT want the person/party that most closely suits their values?

I expect people to vote their values, but when things go to shit, most of the people who were rooting for Bush, continued to do so when an election was on the line because his heart matched their values despite his inability to lead. I won't continue to support Obama if I perceive he turns into something other than the platform he ran on. And I'll speak out about it.

 

[Tomperi]

Scum.

Alcoholic murderer.

Nothing of value lost.

I assume you vote Republican..

 

[retro]

I assume you vote Republican..

that's a silly assumption to make... I don't vote republican, and I'm inclined to agree with those sentiments.

 

[Minor Axis]

Scum.

Alcoholic murderer.

Nothing of value lost.

As long as you hold the same standards to all politicians and not just the ones you disagree with. I'm not saying you don't have the right to judge him and his actions, but when you (and others in this forum) call him a "murderer" you show a lack of intellectual and political neutrality on the subject which diminishes the validity of your outrage.

Chappaquiddick Incident

 

[Peter Parka]

As long as you hold the same standards to all politicians and not just the ones you disagree with. I'm not saying you don't have the right to judge him and his actions, but when you (and others in this forum) call him a "murderer" you show a lack of intellectual and political neutrality on the subject which diminishes the validity of your outrage.

Chappaquiddick Incident

I tend to like his party, I just didn't like him. I fail to see why calling a man who drives a car into a river with a girl in it and then does a runner without even reporting it a murderer is politically biased.
It would seem to me that someone who likes to downplay that incident because he votes for Ted Kennedy's party is politically biased.

 

[Minor Axis]

I tend to like his party, I just didn't like him. I fail to see why calling a man who drives a car into a river with a girl in it and then does a runner without even reporting it a murderer is politically biased.
It would seem to me that someone who likes to downplay that incident because he votes for Ted Kennedy's party is politically biased.

Come on Pete... I did not take issue with calling him "scum", that's an opinion. Should he have been arrested? yes. Should he have been punished? yes. Should he be forgiven? An individual decision. Is he a murderer? no. More appropriately he was guilty of Vehicular Homicide and he did escape justice. You can blame him, his family, the justice system, and the voters for re-electing him.

Wikipedia:

Murder, as defined in common law countries, is the unlawful killing of another human being with intent (or malice aforethought), and generally this state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide.

All The Senator's Women- Eleanor Clift, Newsweek.

If you're not sympathetic to Kennedy's politics, you'll note that he had a staggeringly privileged life, and got away with something he shouldn't have. It's easy to tally his other failings. In 1980, when he ran for president, his wife Joan dutifully stood by his side, but it was clear from her body language that the marriage was in trouble, and soon after the campaign ended, so did the marriage. Joan was one of many political wives who have been subjected to the humiliation of publicly pretending to be in a loving marriage that was a sham. Kennedy was a rogue, and his escapades, fueled by alcohol, were well documented. He was single through much of the '80s and into the '90s, and his risky behavior blew up on him one night in Palm Beach, Fla., when a bout of drinking ended with his nephew William Kennedy Smith being charged with date rape. A sensational trial followed, after which Smith was acquitted. But there was no escaping that Kennedy, the scion of the family, had damaged himself further. Even he knew it, saying at one point that he recognized "the faults in the conduct of my private life."

But if you are sympathetic to Kennedy and his politics, as I am, you're mindful that the accident at Chappaquiddick happened in 1969, the year after Bobby Kennedy was assassinated. (Ted, just 36 and the last of the brothers, shouldered the burden of 11 more fatherless nieces and nephews.) You're also willing to measure the benefits that Kennedy brought to countless people through his politics, and give them proper weight on the scales of the man's record. Finally, if you measure his capacity to reform himself, you tip the scales further.

 

[Minor Axis]

Former Republican Senator Bob Dole on Edward Kennedy:

He was doing things that should have been done. He was not helping the rich. He was helping the disabled and seniors and children who didn't have enough to eat. Who can fault that?

Plenty do because it does not fit into their view of the world.