Sen. Al Franken

[Minor Axis]

Just goes to show. The guy is a flop on Air America yet can get enough votes to be in the Senate. Says a lot for the intelligence of those who are allowed to vote

Yes, he was and is a comedian, but that does not preclude a brain. Your precious Ronald Reagan was a movie actor, but you have higher regard for him because of his roles or because of his thinking??

 

[Margene]

Yes, he was and is a comedian, but that does not preclude a brain. Your precious Ronald Reagan was a movie actor, but you have higher regard for him because of his roles or because of his thinking??

If a person shows themself to be seriously interested in serving our country and shows they have a grasp of the issues they should not be barred from running for office. As you rightly point out, Reagan was a B-Actor and TV host. Franken has alot more on the ball than Reagan.

 

[Alien Allen]

Yes, he was and is a comedian, but that does not preclude a brain. Your precious Ronald Reagan was a movie actor, but you have higher regard for him because of his roles or because of his thinking??

It just bugs the hell out of you liberals that Reagan was elected doesn't it

Face it the guy was a hell of a salesman. The same as Clinton. One either supported their views or hated their views. Except for the peanut farmer I don't really bash former presidents all that much. As long as they shut up and do what past presidents historically do which is to quietly fade away.

Why is it the left is so hell bent on disparaging Reagan? He took a country that was in serious trouble which peanut boy damn near destroyed and give it hope and things turned around. Not really all that bad a record. Oh wait, I know, here will come the degregulation, blah, blah, blah, and that really our current problems all started with Reagan :24:

Oops I forgot there was a congress back then. They always seem to get a free pass except when it comes to the last 8 years :24:

 

[Margene]

It just bugs the hell out of you liberals that Reagan was elected doesn't it

Face it the guy was a hell of a salesman. The same as Clinton. One either supported their views or hated their views. Except for the peanut farmer I don't really bash former presidents all that much. As long as they shut up and do what past presidents historically do which is to quietly fade away.

Why is it the left is so hell bent on disparaging Reagan? He took a country that was in serious trouble which peanut boy damn near destroyed and give it hope and things turned around. Not really all that bad a record. Oh wait, I know, here will come the degregulation, blah, blah, blah, and that really our current problems all started with Reagan :24:

Oops I forgot there was a congress back then. They always seem to get a free pass except when it comes to the last 8 years :24:

It doesn't bother me he was elected, but what does bother me is that he is held up as a conservative saint and he was no brain trust either. As you point out, he was a great salesman but was not the staunch conservative he has been portrayed to be.

Here is a good article:

"Reagan's Liberal Legacy" by Joshua Green

 

[Minor Axis]

It just bugs the hell out of you liberals that Reagan was elected doesn't it

Really? I voted for him... really! :cool

 

[Alien Allen]

It doesn't bother me he was elected, but what does bother me is that he is held up as a conservative saint and he was no brain trust either. As you point out, he was a great salesman but was not the staunch conservative he has been portrayed to be.

Here is a good article:

"Reagan's Liberal Legacy" by Joshua Green

Unless one has a huge mandate and congress backing them a president is limited in a lot that he or she can do.

He was not stupid either. That is just an excuse to dismiss what he did accomplish.

I did not support some of his views on things such as the move to the religious right and the stance on abortion. I also am not happy that he was unable to control spending. But he did bring us out of some very troubled times. That recession was as bad as the current one.

And he did not saddle us with what will end up costing trillions in gimmicks and busllshit like Obama has. He let the economy recover on its own with the enactment of tax policies rather than give aways. Had congress not pulled a stunt of saying they would cut spending things would have been different. Now we have a game where it is blame the last guy for spending but do not hold the new guy accountable.

Rather sickeing logic.

 

[Margene]

Unless one has a huge mandate and congress backing them a president is limited in a lot that he or she can do.

He was not stupid either. That is just an excuse to dismiss what he did accomplish.

I did not support some of his views on things such as the move to the religious right and the stance on abortion. I also am not happy that he was unable to control spending. But he did bring us out of some very troubled times. That recession was as bad as the current one.

And he did not saddle us with what will end up costing trillions in gimmicks and busllshit like Obama has. He let the economy recover on its own with the enactment of tax policies rather than give aways. Had congress not pulled a stunt of saying they would cut spending things would have been different. Now we have a game where it is blame the last guy for spending but do not hold the new guy accountable.

Rather sickeing logic.

Reagan didn't have a huge mandate? Didn't he annhilate Mondale in 1984?

As I said, I have no problem that he was elected. There was some good, but he is not the saint his legacy polishers would have us believe.

 

[Minor Axis]

Rather sickeing logic.

Your avatar becomes you!

 

[Alien Allen]

Reagan didn't have a huge mandate? Didn't he annhilate Mondale in 1984?

As I said, I have no problem that he was elected. There was some good, but he is not the saint his legacy polishers would have us believe.

Yeah he cleaned his clock aright :cool

That must drive you nuts eh

58% Reagan
40% Mondale

God you guys had some horrible candidates :24:

Also he only lost one state.

Interesting which state he lost. The same state that just elected a comedian as their senator and a wrestler for Governor. Wow, there must be something weird in the water there. :24:

 

[Alien Allen]

Your avatar becomes you!

thanks

 

[Margene]

Yeah he cleaned his clock aright :cool

That must drive you nuts eh

58% Reagan
40% Mondale

God you guys had some horrible candidates :24:

Also he only lost one state.

Interesting which state he lost. The same state that just elected a comedian as their senator and a wrestler for Governor. Wow, there must be something weird in the water there. :24:

No, it doesn't drive me nuts. I've said so several times. It does run counter to your argument that Reagan was hampered without a mandate.

 

[Minor Axis]

Interesting which state he lost. The same state that just elected a comedian as their senator and a wrestler for Governor. Wow, there must be something weird in the water there. :24:

The comedian beat out The Loser. :nod: Now Jesse, I liked him, smart guy except for one thing- he's a tell-it-like-it-is personality and had a hard time with compromise, the cornerstone of being a good politician.

 

[Alien Allen]

No, it doesn't drive me nuts. I've said so several times. It does run counter to your argument that Reagan was hampered without a mandate.

It takes a mandate and control of congress. I should have been a little clearer on that. The bully pulpit can only do so much. The house is very liberal and has been so for all but about 8 or so of the last 50+ years. So a conservative is limited what they can do with a liberal house.

 

[Alien Allen]

The comedian beat out The Loser. :nod: Now Jesse, I liked him, smart guy except for one thing- he's a tell-it-like-it-is personality and had a hard time with compromise, the cornerstone of being a good politician.

Like I said Minnesota has some very weird voters.

 

[Margene]

The comedian beat out The Loser. :nod: Now Jesse, I liked him, smart guy except for one thing- he's a tell-it-like-it-is personality and had a hard time with compromise, the cornerstone of being a good politician.

Which Reagan knew as he compromised during his two terms as well, including baiing out SS counter to his campaign promises.

 

[Accountable]

The comedian beat out The Loser. :nod: Now Jesse, I liked him, smart guy except for one thing- he's a tell-it-like-it-is personality and had a hard time with compromise, the cornerstone of being a good politician.

I liked Jesse a lot. He's da bomb ....... thrower.

 

[Accountable]

Coleman vs Franken- I listened to Franken on the radio for a year. You may not have liked the choice but he was the better of the two if you care about labor. Former Democrat Coleman was an opportunist, go-with-the-flow kinda guy.

Can you elaborate?

 

[Meirionnydd]

Unless one has a huge mandate and congress backing them a president is limited in a lot that he or she can do.

He was not stupid either. That is just an excuse to dismiss what he did accomplish.

I did not support some of his views on things such as the move to the religious right and the stance on abortion. I also am not happy that he was unable to control spending. But he did bring us out of some very troubled times. That recession was as bad as the current one.

And he did not saddle us with what will end up costing trillions in gimmicks and busllshit like Obama has. He let the economy recover on its own with the enactment of tax policies rather than give aways. Had congress not pulled a stunt of saying they would cut spending things would have been different. Now we have a game where it is blame the last guy for spending but do not hold the new guy accountable.

Rather sickeing logic.

Hmm.

For starters, a good slice of tax cuts imposed in the Reagan era were targeted towards the rich, at the expense of Social security and Medicare - taxes for these services increased. Hell, even George Bush (Senior) derided Reagan's tax polices as 'voodoo economics'.

Cutting income tax also decreases government revenues, something that Reagan may not have realised when he dramatically increased military spending over his term. The public debt to GDP ratio doubled within the first 5 years of his presidency. And national debt was up from a modest 700 billion at the start of his presidency, to a staggering 3 trillion at the end.

And at least with Obama's stimulus something may actually come out of it. Like improved infustructure, health and education. Contrast that with Reagan's spending patterns (Increased military funding that proved to be completely useless after the Soviet Union fell) and Bush Junior (Trying to think of something productive he did to the nation.... err, I've got nothing).

 

[Alien Allen]

Hmm.

For starters, a good slice of tax cuts imposed in the Reagan era were targeted towards the rich, at the expense of Social security and Medicare - taxes for these services increased. Hell, even George Bush (Senior) derided Reagan's tax polices as 'voodoo economics'.

Cutting income tax also decreases government revenues, something that Reagan may not have realised when he dramatically increased military spending over his term. The public debt to GDP ratio doubled within the first 5 years of his presidency. And national debt was up from a modest 700 billion at the start of his presidency, to a staggering 3 trillion at the end.

Spoken like a died in the wool liberal. :clap
Only problem is that you liberals are so hell bent on penalizing the rich to pay for all the goodies that you ignore the facts. Revenue has always increased when there were tax cuts. Sorry, I know the truth hurts.

And at least with Obama's stimulus something may actually come out of it. Like improved infustructure, health and education. Contrast that with Reagan's spending patterns (Increased military funding that proved to be completely useless after the Soviet Union fell) and Bush Junior (Trying to think of something productive he did to the nation.... err, I've got nothing).

Reagan was given promises about cutting spending which congress backed out on. And yeah he increased the military budget. Since when is fortifying our military to make sure we are capable of protecting ourself a bad thing?

And at least with Obama's stimulus something may actually come out of it.

yeah baby, spend, spend, spend. You liberals are so in bed with this guy you do not even know what a stimulus package is. It is supposed to be something that provides an immediate boost to the economy. All his plan is just an infusion of money into liberal programs with it costing us a massive amount of money with no immediate impact. That makes anything done in the past that you claim damaged the country pale in comparisom. We could shut off the stimulus plan right now and do our kids and grand kids a favor because the plan did not do anything yet and now that things are starting to stabize the plan will do nothing but ratchet up inflation. This is voodoo economics at its best and coming from the smartest man on earth we were told over and over again.

 

[Accountable]

And at least with Obama's stimulus something may actually come out of it. Like improved infustructure, health and education. Contrast that with Reagan's spending patterns (Increased military funding that proved to be completely useless after the Soviet Union fell) and Bush Junior (Trying to think of something productive he did to the nation.... err, I've got nothing).

The problem is that health and education are not in the federal government's job description (the US Constitution). Interstate highways are, but historically they've been left to the states to maintain. The increased military spending is exactly why the Soviet Union fell. Since then I'm afraid it's little more than a jobs program.

This column points out possible strategy behind it all:

Since the Reagan era, some conservatives have hoped to shrink government by "starving the beast." Refuse to raise taxes, they figured, and eventually spending would have to fall.

It's beginning to look as though the new team may have a similar strategy, in reverse: Increase spending, and eventually taxes will have to be raised.

*more*

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