Religious Inconsistencies

[Stone]

The Pagan's were onto something with Goddess worship. ...................................................

Then go ahead and post the reasons why you like paganism.
Might be an interesting change from hearing why you hate something.

What form of paganism do you prefer?

 

[Joe the meek]

You have no idea what you are talking about Tuffy. Joe and I have been arguing for years.

Never considered it arguing

That said John, listening to what you and your wife had to endure while your were children growing up with religion, to some extent I can see why you might have one screwed up view on the subject

Heck, the worst part growing up Russian Orthodox was being the 12th candle holder during the 12 Gospel readings before Easter and the brown bag Sunday service. At least Russians know how to mix drinking and their religion together to have a blast at weddings AND funerals, not like the the stick in the mud Baptist events I go to some times here in NC LMAO.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Never considered it arguing

toe-mA-toe/toe-mAH-toe

That said John, listening to what you and your wife had to endure while your were children growing up with religion, to some extent I can see why you might have one screwed up view on the subject

It's all fucked up in all it's forms. It's still all about one group of humans excercising control over other humans through fear and guilt. Why would anyone choose to be a part of any organization like that?

Heck, the worst part growing up Russian Orthodox was being the 12th candle holder during the 12 Gospel readings before Easter and the brown bag Sunday service. At least Russians know how to mix drinking and their religion together to have a blast at weddings AND funerals, not like the the stick in the mud Baptist events I go to some times here in NC LMAO.

Then church to you is simply a social club - as it is to most people today, so why muddy it up with religion? Some people are joiners and feel the need to "belong". But what most do is pick and choose what parts of thier "holy books" they will abide by and which parts they will ignore, while defending the violence and murder contained within them with "context". It's complete bullshit, but hey - whatever floats your boat. I enjoy poking fun at it because it lends itself to be made fun of because it showcases human ignorance, stupidity and fear. Add in a few good deeds and it's all worth it though, right Joe?

I've been to Jewish, catholic and Protestant weddings. The Jewish ones are by far the most fun - they had black-tie bar tenders and a totally classy receptions. The Catholic ones were a bunch of kneeling, chanting and crossing asshattery followed by imbibing in mass quantities of booze, which I enjoyed at the time. The Protestant ones were the worst of all.

Maybe if the Protestants mixed in some good old time boozing and that nifty little confessional you could go sit your hungover ass in and get forgivness for your "sins" afterward I'd have enjoyed my religious experience a little more. But the bottom line is that religion does more harm than good. The world would be a much better place if all the billions of $$$ religion guilts out of its members to pay salaries and maintain buildings and real estate were spent on educating the masses in science, mathematics and humanist philosophy that would actually benefit mankind instead.

 

[Joe the meek]

Then church to you is simply a social club - as it is to most people today, so why muddy it up with religion?

Fact is, you really do have your head up your ass sometimes LOL

Currently I'm going to a Methodist church.

You and your exercising control shit. You may find this hard to believe, but there are churches out there that use money collected from their congregation to help others AND the mobilize their congregations to help others as well.

Problem is, you have to get off you lazy ass and look. It's much easier to bitch over the internet, I understand.

You may not believe this john, but I really don't give a flying fuck what you believe. Problem is, I find your crazy ass overzealousness as repulsive as some of the fire and brimstone guys who preach the word of God. To some extent, you guys are a lot a like. ANYONE can make the written word what they believe, and I understand that is the irony here.

Go preach your hatred elsewhere or go make a difference and get off your fat lazy ass.

 

[Alien Allen]

It's all fucked up in all it's forms. It's still all about one group of humans excercising control over other humans through fear and guilt. Why would anyone choose to be a part of any organization like that?

same can be said of politics

which religions have had their fingers in for ages.

It all boils down to extremism no matter if it is religion or politcs

I am not sure about your Agnostic Atheism stance. I think that makes no sense but would have to check on the specifics. I believe you are an outright Atheist. You don't have anything close to an open mind to be the least bit Agnostic.

 

[Tim]

same can be said of politics

which religions have had their fingers in for ages.

It all boils down to extremism no matter if it is religion or politcs

I am not sure about your Agnostic Atheism stance. I think that makes no sense but would have to check on the specifics. I believe you are an outright Atheist. You don't have anything close to an open mind to be the least bit Agnostic.

There are several different types of Atheists.

Here are the two major types... actually it can be broken down much further into sub-categories, but these basically cover it

A gnostic atheist not only believes there are no gods, he also claims to know there are no gods.
An agnostic atheist doesn’t believe in gods, but doesn’t claim to know there are no gods.

 

[Tuffdisc]

The Pagan's were onto something with Goddess worship. Beats worshiping some bloodied up dude and drinking his blood:

Just proves that you take things too literally without really thinking about what is said

Christian Easter celebrates the Rising from the Dead scenario...i.e. Christ would never of been believed by many if he hadn't risen from the dead...and no we don't "celebrate" torture, we mourn the fact that someone took our place in that way for that person had done no wrong in his life, that is the bit of Good Friday, just because they are on the same weekend, doesn't mean to say they are related, the only relation is death and rising from the dead. So there you go again, ranting on with no facts about Easter. No matter how much you blaspheme or get your facts wrong or even mock Christian, I refuse to get angered, because I would go to your levels of utter rubbish behaviour. And no, it doesn't hurt me, just makes me wonder what the heck you are on about. Misconstruing Christianity hurts me? Nah, why should it?

I think you have seriously got a twisted mind or were seriously told the wrong story about Christianity in that we "celebrate torture". Nothing can be further from the truth. Christians celebrate love, sex (but not in the way you want to, I guess), love, the earth and worship God.

 

[Minor Axis]

Just proves that you take things too literally without really thinking about what is said

Christian Easter celebrates the Rising from the Dead scenario...i.e. Christ would never of been believed by many if he hadn't risen from the dead...and no we don't "celebrate" torture, we mourn the fact that someone took our place in that way for that person had done no wrong in his life, that is the bit of Good Friday, just because they are on the same weekend, doesn't mean to say they are related, the only relation is death and rising from the dead. So there you go again, ranting on with no facts about Easter. No matter how much you blaspheme or get your facts wrong or even mock Christian, I refuse to get angered, because I would go to your levels of utter rubbish behaviour. And no, it doesn't hurt me, just makes me wonder what the heck you are on about. Misconstruing Christianity hurts me? Nah, why should it?

I think you have seriously got a twisted mind or were seriously told the wrong story about Christianity in that we "celebrate torture". Nothing can be further from the truth. Christians celebrate love, sex (but not in the way you want to, I guess), love, the earth and worship God.

How do we know Jesus rose from the dead? ... a book, a book written by men. You may or may not have seen this from another thread in this forum:

http://youtu.be/rqP_fjBkwxc

It's a most excellent discussion about God's morality as taught by the Bible. When faced with straight forward questions about what possible reason God decided to send his Son to Earth to die, it becomes really difficult to defend and not sound silly imo. I don't begrudge you, your right to believe what you want, but imo, these organizations do a disservice to mankind by pushing this kind of nonsense. Apply two ounces of logic and these stories become no more than fairy tales. However I admit they can't really be disproven either just like I can't disprove purple dragons.

Please don't confuse me for an Atheist. I do believe in spirituality, I really hope there is a continuation of consciousness after physical death, I do hope we move forward having learned lessons in this life, but I can't tell you with any certainty what we will face when crossing the threshold of physical death.

We know what is important to know. If God thought it was really important to know what his rules and regulations, then we would not have to bend over backwards to try to figure it out. The last place I'll put my faith is a moldy old book written by ancient superstitious men trying to make sense of their existence, while exerting control over others.

And keep in mind, the good things your church (or any church) does will always be overshadowed by the sales job that accompanies these deeds. If they were unconditional good deeds, I'd be much more impressed.

 

[Tuffdisc]

How do we know Jesus rose from the dead? ... a book, a book written by men. You may or may not have seen this from another thread in this forum:

http://youtu.be/rqP_fjBkwxc

It's a most excellent discussion about God's morality as taught by the Bible. When faced with straight forward questions about what possible reason God decided to send his Son to Earth to die, it becomes really difficult to defend and not sound silly imo. I don't begrudge you, your right to believe what you want, but imo, these organizations do a disservice to mankind by pushing this kind of nonsense. Apply two ounces of logic and these stories become no more than fairy tales. However I admit they can't really be disproven either just like I can't disprove purple dragons.

Please don't confuse me for an Atheist. I do believe in spirituality, I really hope there is a continuation of consciousness after physical death, I do hope we move forward having learned lessons in this life, but I can't tell you with any certainty what we will face when crossing the threshold of physical death.

We know what is important to know. If God thought it was really important to know what his rules and regulations, then we would not have to bend over backwards to try to figure it out. The last place I'll put my faith is a moldy old book written by ancient superstitious men trying to make sense of their existence, while exerting control over others.

And keep in mind, the good things your church (or any church) does will always be overshadowed by the sales job that accompanies these deeds. If they were unconditional good deeds, I'd be much more impressed.

Do you think I can fathom out why God sent his Son to die for people who continue to do wrong or use his Son's name for the sake of war? No I can't, but that doesn't mean I don't believe cause that is one hell of a sacrifice that Jesus did, excuse the pun on that. But to prove he was talking the word of God in his sermons he paid the ultimate sacrifice. To prove that he wasn't some street preacher mumbling out a few words, like the preachers of the day were doing

 

[Minor Axis]

Do you think I can fathom out why God sent his Son to die for people who continue to do wrong or use his Son's name for the sake of war? No I can't, but that doesn't mean I don't believe cause that is one hell of a sacrifice that Jesus did, excuse the pun on that. But to prove he was talking the word of God in his sermons he paid the ultimate sacrifice. To prove that he wasn't some street preacher mumbling out a few words, like the preachers of the day were doing

My point is and always has been that you and other religious folks choose to believe what has been written in a book and there is a good chance you were indoctrinated at a young age. Really that is neither here nor there when it comes to faith. Something sounds good and people latch on to it. It is faith. It might be real, then it might not be. If you find out later, you were all wrong, what will you say then? Even if you are wrong, I see no penalty because if it was important, God would be sure that we would know exactly what the situation is, which we don't.

Even though the story makes no sense to me, it gives the faithful chills up and down their spines to know God made this sacrifice. But how much of a sacrifice was it? If you believe in the spiritual world then our true existence are as spirits and as far as I know Jesus should be up in heaven partying along side God. In human terms his death was a sacrifice. In spiritual terms not so much, would you agree?

 

[Johnfromokc]

Fact is, you really do have your head up your ass sometimes LOL

No actually, that would be you Joe. You don't seem to realize what and arrogant fuck you come across as. You hold this unwarranted superiority complex that you are geographically superior to others. You need to go have a good look in the mirror - but first, you'll need to undergo a surgical cranial-rectal extraction and wipe your own feces from your eyes so you can actually see who you have become.

Currently I'm going to a Methodist church.

The only difference between a Baptist and a Methodist is the Methoditst will actually speak to you when you bump into him in the liquor store.

You and your exercising control shit. You may find this hard to believe, but there are churches out there that use money collected from their congregation to help others AND the mobilize their congregations to help others as well.

They've got serious control over your mind Joe - you're just not quite bright enough to realize it. The vast majority of money that churches collect goes to salaries and maintenance of the church itself. Pennies on the dollar actually get to the needy.

Problem is, you have to get off you lazy ass and look. It's much easier to bitch over the internet, I understand.

You are having some midlife crisis where you feel that perhaps you were such a self centered fuck up the first 2/3 of your life that you now feel compelled do do all these wonderful things (in your own mind) to make up for it. You repeatedly tell people what you do and try and admonish me to do the same. Newsflash: I didn't have a 30+ year childhood like you and therefore don't give a fuck about your internal guilt that drives you to post idiotic shit like you do.

You may not believe this john, but I really don't give a flying fuck what you believe. Problem is, I find your crazy ass overzealousness as repulsive as some of the fire and brimstone guys who preach the word of God. To some extent, you guys are a lot a like. ANYONE can make the written word what they believe, and I understand that is the irony here.

I find your rightious anger amusing. Is there no forgiveness in your heart JoeTheChristian?

Go preach your hatred elsewhere or go make a difference and get off your fat lazy ass.

No hatred here - I love your dumb ass bro. I love you enough to tell you the truth.

You see Joe, therein lies your problem. You don't know what I do or do not do because I do not feel compelled to post my deeds like you do.

Here's a little bible verse for you to ponder upon from Mathew 6 :

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. ...

 

[Joe the meek]

You are having some midlife crisis where you feel that perhaps you were such a self centered fuck up the first 2/3 of your life that you now feel compelled do do all these wonderful things (in your own mind) to make up for it. You repeatedly tell people what you do and try and admonish me to do the same. Newsflash: I didn't have a 30+ year childhood like you and therefore don't give a fuck about your internal guilt that drives you to post idiotic shit like you do.



I find your rightious anger amusing. Is there no forgiveness in your heart JoeTheChristian?

See John, you know jack shit. In the grand scheme of things, I don't really give a flying fuck what God thinks:24:

I have no reason to forgive you. You don't understand that I really don't give a flying rats but what you do with your life?

Fact is you crucify those who practice religion and don't discriminate in any of your observations, because in your mind, everyone is guilty.

You did it with those who practiced the Islam faith years ago, classifying everyone who practiced the religion as a terrorist or someone compelled to kill others in the name of their own religion.

You ever see me come here and crucify anyone who doesn't believe what I believe? Go ahead and quote me. I normally jump in when I get a little sick and tiered of the unrelenting bashing. You don't believe in God? So what?

You know how you have a pic of the Pope on the first page of this thread? I used to feel the same way about Catholicism for many reasons. Then my buddy left a high paying job after being an exceptional college student, went to work with the homeless, then went to get his masters at Oxford and became a Catholic priest. I'm truly amazed talking with him about religion. Sorry to say, I have a higher regard for his interpretation on the Bible over yours. He not only talks the talk, but walks it, as well. You don't,

You, the all know it all of religion who wants to point out the hypocrisy and whats wrong with everything, but will do nothing in his own power to try and make a change.

Get off your lazy ass and try to make a difference and stop being a hypocrite yourself.

Long story short, I just get tuckered out with you on your soap box. I ask you if you actually do anything to help those less fortunate to see if you actually try to make a difference. So far, I take it as you don't. Again, I don't really care, but can you shut up on religion because you do nothing to try and help the situation but complain.

Oh, and if you know what the real "truth" is, you're a much better AND smarter man than myself.

 

[Joe the meek]

Tempt you? I fucking DARE you. Go for it.

John, read below. This is what you responded to when someone asked what your opinion was on the Muslim/Islamic faith.

I don't know if you will get much mileage out of this thread with this docile bunch. Somebody might disagree and get upset. Can't have that. Most here know how I feel about Islam and its convert or die philosophy. What baffles me are those who insist on defending it, apologizing for it, and blaming the victims of Islamic violence for getting themselves murdered. Why is it so difficult for some to see the truth?

What is funny is you and I could never agree because I was of the opinion that not everyone who practices Islam wants to kill others in the name of their religion.

You're problem is that you're no better than those who you condemn. You classify everyone into one category. Sometimes I'm really not sure how far you have come in your "enlightenment"

A little more from you on the subject...

Believe what you wish, but the fact remains that Muslims are involved in probably 99% of the hostilities of the world; even you cannot argue otherwise as you play the devils advocate. Why exactly are these peace loving Muslims involved in all this killing? What exactly is this "misguided bastardization of their religion"? Does the Koran not say what it says? Does the Koran not say that infidels should be murdered? How complex can it be? A very small percentage may be engaged in the actual murders around the globe, but a very large percentage (read majority) are silently condoning it. You are defending a religion that condones murder.

And more...

The Islamic leaders of the Muslim world have proclaimed that their intent is to rule the world, and if they need to kill you and your family, Bob, they have no qualm in doing so if necessary; and the average Muslim on the street is silent on this issue. There is no outcry from the Muslim community that there is anything whatsoever wrong with this theology; yet we should give them the benefit of the doubt? I think not. These average everyday Muslims that you are defending would likely stand by and watch as your throat was slit along with those of your family. That makes them just as guilty as the ones actually doing the deed. Until these “peaceful” Muslims stand up en masse and renounce their murderous leaders, they are condoning Islamic terrorism by their silence.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Hey Joe - fuck you and the holy horse you rode in on. :fing27

I see you still have not read your own bible Joe-the-rightious.

I am curious why this religious discussion thread bother you so? You could just choose not to participate and not even look at it, yet you keep returning again and again and again.

I have struck a chord inside you Joe. I've hit a nerve or three.

Oh, and the quote you posted proves you have the reading comprehension of a complete moron as well as being a fucking liar. :24: Jesus H. Fuck - right when I thought you could possibly get any fucking dumber, you prove me wrong. Nice work.

In case you are still too fucking dumb to realize it, note that the post you quoted as evidence refers to "Islam" not Muslims. Islam at it's core is a convert or die religion, just like the biblical old testament. Muslims pick and choose what portions of the koran they follow just like Christians pick their way through the bible avoiding the rape, murder and violence. I still hold all Abrahamic religions in low esteem because they are all the same fundamentally.

 

[Johnfromokc]

I stand by every one of those posts Joe. Not once did I ever use the term "all Muslims". You're looking dumber by the minute - keep 'em coming.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Here ya go holy joe - argue this - MORE religious war in the name of some fucking god. and that was my whole point - but you're too goddamned dense to see it.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Oh looky joe jesus - more islamic and christian conflict :willy_nilly:

 

[Joe the meek]

I stand by every one of those posts Joe. Not once did I ever use the term "all Muslims". You're looking dumber by the minute - keep 'em coming.

Everything below was written by you.


Thisis powerful information and I just placed my order for a copy of theDVD. Please download all the clips; it is worth the wait.


They teach jihad to their children from the cradle. This is a world wide problem that we all must come together and recognize for what it is. It makes no difference if you are a Democrat, Republican or Independant. We all must put our political differences aside and realize that the core of Islam is Jihad against the West and these people believe they are honoring allah by waging their holy waragainst all western nations. Make no mistake about their true intent.Do you think it is a coincidence that Muslim immigration into theunited States and Canada is continually on the rise? Should we bemore concerned about the Hispanics seeking to enter America to findwork and prosperity, or with the massive influx of Muslims who seekIslamic rule of America?


This article is about the views of one islamic extremeist, however, note that there are no representatives of the elusive "mainstreammuslims" we have all been repeatedly told about.The worldleaders of islam, ie: the clerics whom muslims follow their lead are calling for the death of the Pope and jihad on the West. Nothing newhere, but consider for a moment that these clerics are also politicalleaders. Imagine if George Bush was calling for Christians to rise upagainst muslims. Could you imagine the outrage? Well, what is the difference between the muslim leaders calling for the murder ofChristians?


My question is: What about all the muslims who are U.S. citizens? These muslims are free and have protection from the radicals who would kill them in the middleast for speaking out against the behavior of themore radical sects. Why do they not speak out against the call forthe murder of the Pope and his followers? Do they silently condonethe violence? Are they looking forward to the day when islam rulesAmerica?


What about those of you right here who readily speak out against the"religous right"? What is the difference here? The mainstream news media will readily condemn what they perceive asan over the top statement by a Christian or Jewish leader, yet they tolerate far worse from muslim leaders. Why?

Give one single example of Christians commanded by their religous leadersto go out and murder people of any other faith in the last 200 years. It is far beyond rare, it is non-existent for modern Christians to goon a murder spree. The lone nut who commits a random murder is not avalid comparison.

DaveNay suggested we worry about bigger things than the dixie twits, so how about the ever expanding threat of islamic fascism. This issurely the greatest threat we face today. Looks loke France and Europemay be headed for civil war with our peaceful muslim friends.



If you look at Europe's Muslim population today, you will get a glimpse at what the senator from VA means. I have not verified this as a statistical fact, but I have read in two or three news publicationsthat the second most popular name for new baby boys in England is Muhammed. If that is true, that will give you an idea of the Muslim population increase and the political effects there.


Islam is not a peaceful religion, and it could be argued that is not even a religion at all;


The passages of the Koran that call for the murder of you and me have been posted here . Why don't you attend these mosques unannounced on a few occaisions and see what gets preached? Even then, I doubt the service will be in English, so unless you speak Arabic, you will be no wiser than you were before. Even if you do speak Arabic, deception of infiedels such as yourself is condoned and encouraged. "Infidel" defenders of Islam - (defending thosewho would kill you, or stand by and do nothing as you and your familyare murdered) - never cease to amaze me.


It is politically correct to blast Christians for voicing their beliefs,and the very same people who blast Christians call others who critcize Muslims "intolerant". An interesting process these enlightened people have. I wonder....is the world finally waking upand seeing the "peaceful" religion of Islam for what it truly is? And if so, is the world ready to do what must be done toget it under control before it is too late?



The Mexicans are the least of our problems. They come here to work and seek a better life. The islamics come here, set up businesses to fund terrorism and sleeper units for future terrorist attacks right inyour back yard.


Yet people keep screaming about deporting Mexicans and give muslims apass.


NORWAYFUNDING KORAN SCHOOLS


Norwayhas provided over $1 million in "aid" to 118 "Koranschools" in Pakistan.Investigations show that Koran schools, particularly in Karachi, have trained jihad suicide bombers and sent them to Afghanistan andKashmir. It is assumed that schools outside of Karachi are alsobreading Islamic fundamentalists.


In essence, Norway is funding Pakistani breeding grounds for terrorists;or, if you want to put it more bluntly, Norwayis funding terrorism.


Norway's minister of foreign aid says that the goal of the project was to"promote dialogue." However when giving money, Norway doesn't demand to know the schools' curriculum ... as if the schoolswould tell the truth if asked. And the socialist party says thatgiving aid to the schools would "further religious tolerance."


This is not the time for Norway to be giving help to the very schools that are breeding fundamentalism and set on the destruction of Westernculture.

Islam is the problem, not GWB. And in his "bumbling" way, as some of you are wont to say, he has exposed the problem to the world. Better to find out now and plan how to deal with it than to stick our collective heads in the sand and wait for the nuclear explosion to surprise us.

 

[Joe the meek]

John

Give me some credit to realize that man has used religion to control others and has used religion for wars as well.

The sad fact is a long time ago, I was constantly arguing with you that not ALL Muslim people were terrorists who wanted to kill others. Your main point was that the Koran so instructed those to kill infidels and any practicing Muslim would do so.

My point has always been that in any religion, you have radicals and not all Muslim people wanted to kill others who didn't practice Islam.

You interpret the Koran the same way you interpret the Bible LOL

I find when anyone stereotypes a people or religious faith, to beware. You become no better than the men in the white robes who burn crosses.

 

[Johnfromokc]

John

Give me some credit to realize that man has used religion to control others and has used religion for wars as well.

I'll certainly give you credit for spending hours upon hours digging up shit that proves you have either reading comprehension issues or severe dyslexia.

How's it feel to be my bitch? You been working for me for free for hours and I'm constanly in your thoughts. You'll take me to bed with you tonight and shower with me in the morning. Whats for breakfast sugar britches?:bates:

The sad fact is a long time ago, I was constantly arguing with you that not ALL Muslim people were terrorists who wanted to kill others.

My issue was, is and always has been the fact that there never has, to my knowledge, been a unifed, sustained outcry by any national level Islamic leaders against Islamic violence against other religions or non-believers.

Your main point was that the Koran so instructed those to kill infidels and any practicing Muslim would do so.

Wrong. What I said is mainstream Muslims will not speak out against it, and by their silence, condone it. That's a far cry from your silly assed claims

My point has always been that in any religion, you have radicals and not all Muslim people wanted to kill others who didn't practice Islam.

No shit Sherlock

You interpret the Koran the same way you interpret the Bible LOL

The words say what they say. It's the religious sheep that try and trot out "context" to explain away all the muder and violence in both books.

I find when anyone stereotypes a people or religious faith, to beware. You become no better than the men in the white robes who burn crosses.

You're guilty of the same shit you are accusing me of - painting me with a broad brush. Instead of reading the words and taking them at face value, you try and read them like biblebots read the bible and make them out to say something other than what they actually say.

That's enough of this silliness for tonight. Let's hit the sack sweetums. See ya in the morning.