Peter Parka
Well-Known Member
maybe as a comproise we could bring back the 11+, I'd be in favour of that.:nod:
Protest against public schools!!!!!!
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Get use to it. You'd think he was paid by the word. His motto is "why say in 5 words what you can in 500". You just have to learn to throw out the wishy-washy-cover-my-ass crap and dig down to what he is really trying to say. After about 1000 of his posts you'll learn.
i'm flattered there strauss....i had no idea you actually read the long stuff :thumbup
ok....time for the witty, biting retort
You're an idiot.
Oh wait...."retort" I read that as "short".
I only read every fourth word, same meaning is conveyed either way.
You're an idiot.
Oh wait...."retort" I read that as "short".
I only read every fourth word, same meaning is conveyed either way.
it's nice to see you too :nod:
bass_man1989
Active Member
Doctors getting paid by the government aren't exactly living out of boxes. The doctor I go to used to work somewhere in the U.K. and he said it was much better.
Weather or not the doctors are doing better is beside the point.The point is that the government has no right. The free market should dictate how much they get paid, not a bureaucrat.
bass_man1989
Active Member
I understand that it's not free. It's easier than typing "nationalized" every time.
Peter Parka
Well-Known Member
ok, i'll bite.....what this a reference to.....age? :unsure:
"My real name is "Thadius Main Jr." if you ever want to put those quotations somewhere. I'd rather they be applied to my real name rather then and internet user name, as they reflect my deepest beliefs."
__________________
Yes of course, how silly of me to think i could possibly offend you over a screen name....but to be completely blunt..it really makes no difference, i still see a very selfish man who if held a cure to a deadly disease would hold it higher than us little people...and demand money for life. Sickens me. enjoy
__________________
Yes of course, how silly of me to think i could possibly offend you over a screen name....but to be completely blunt..it really makes no difference, i still see a very selfish man who if held a cure to a deadly disease would hold it higher than us little people...and demand money for life. Sickens me. enjoy
BadBoy@TheWheel
DT3's Twinkie
You are misinformed and suffering from BDS. Bush has spent the most of any president EVER on education. I am not defending his position just making you aware of FACTS--the public school system was screwed up before Bush took office and will be screwed up after he's out and no matter who the next president is.
If you want to know who to blame, blame the public school unions. There have been TONS of stories done on this--in fact 20/20 did a story on it (John Stossel was mobbed by angry union teachers). We already spend more than any other nation on public schools but we spend less of it actually educating the students.Why in the world do you think throwing more money at the problem will fix it? :confused
That's why we need vouchers. I wouldn't eliminate the public school system, I would just offer parents choices. Why should iltos, errr, I mean Isasl (whatever the fuck his initals are!
A: I was referring to your president when he was Gov. of Texas, and youmight want to look at his record on education while he was at the helm here in my state before you defend him
B: There is no teachers union to speak of here, so throw that out the window. Personally I would much rather state government to handle the school system in their respective state, they should have a much better idea about the need of their individual system.
In our case, they don't, at the state government level here, they have had a difficult at best time keeping people in key positions to take care of the job that needs doing namely becuase most of them have felt for a long time that their hands are tied.
I'm not saying that vouchers aren't a good idea, but are we going to do that rather than make an attempt at fixing the problem?
That (vouchers) are essentially "throwing money at the problem" it just has such a nice political spin on it we forget that it will still come out of our pockets.
To me, vouchers are not a "fix" they are a ticket for the local and state government to squander more money that should be getting channeled into the school system.
Education is something that can determine to a large degree the direction you take in your life, if at 4 or 5 your parents are given the option, and take the option, to pull their child out of school (which is the only option you are talking about) that immediantly sets that child at a massive disadvantage to the rest of the people in the country.
In effect what is happening, is that decisions are being made for a child that affect his/hers, and no ones elses, adult life. Which seems remarkabley unfair to me.
A right to education is something that originated over 100 years ago with the education act that passed in Victorian England, and it's no coincedence that since then the divide between rich and poor has shifted. For the first time ever being under the poverty line was suddenly not the norm, nearly everyone could read or write, and the "middle" classes as we know them today emerged, and would eventually go on to be the dominant and most populated social demographic.
To cut my post short, because I could go on and on, you seem to be living in a make believe world where if your uneducated you can still survive, it was hard enough before the Victorian era when the cost of living was lower and the world was not 90% tertiary sector employment like it is today.
In effect what is happening, is that decisions are being made for a child that affect his/hers, and no ones elses, adult life. Which seems remarkabley unfair to me.
A right to education is something that originated over 100 years ago with the education act that passed in Victorian England, and it's no coincedence that since then the divide between rich and poor has shifted. For the first time ever being under the poverty line was suddenly not the norm, nearly everyone could read or write, and the "middle" classes as we know them today emerged, and would eventually go on to be the dominant and most populated social demographic.
To cut my post short, because I could go on and on, you seem to be living in a make believe world where if your uneducated you can still survive, it was hard enough before the Victorian era when the cost of living was lower and the world was not 90% tertiary sector employment like it is today.
Thank you. And I will.
Seriously, though, if I put my time and effort into it, I'd want a return. TANSTAAFL. It cost me to make it, it's gonna cost you to use it.
Peter Parka
Well-Known Member
We used to have a test kids took whe they were 11. The ones who paassed got to go to the grammer schools, the ones who didn't went to the comprehensive schools.
BadBoy@TheWheel
DT3's Twinkie
of course you'd want something for it......but what i think wedz means is that you might hold people to ransom......unrealistically high prices for the gift of life
its happened before and it'll happen again
i know you're not a big fan of unions, and there are things about the teacher's union here in california that are archaic, self-serving, and debilitating to the idea of educational reform, but it is just as ridiculuous to lay the blame at the feet of the unions, as it is to lay the blame at the feet of jr. bush
as you point out, fox, we spend too little of education money on the kids....a big part of "why" that i see is two fold:
a/ the cirriculum/textbook industry has become too influential wrt education policy in this country....public districts (and, less so, even private schools) change textbooks/teaching methodology like clockwork, spending a small fortune "keeping up" with the latest and greatest.....in nearly all cases, the information presented is vitrually the same, but involves some new miracle whip to fancy up the learning sandwhich kids are being fed.....distracting teachers with more "in service" days to learn the new system, which in turn introduces the spin that teachers are secondary to the essence of teaching kids....can themselves be nothing more than stamped out pieces of the education puzzle...anybody who remembers a favorite teacher -the one they both like, and learned from- knows this is not the case, imo.
in that way, it makes some sense that teachers unions fight so hard for more control....
b/ federal mandated education policy, like all federally mandated systems, requires a bloated, top heavy bureacracy at the local level for its "accountability" demands...a part of this (not an all bad part, btw, in terms of teaching the kids something...but still one that raises questions, imo) is the time spent "teaching to the test", which ultimately fuzzys up the question of what is more important in a science class, for example....the material, or the test about the material?
further, accounting for these "standards" issues is a requirement to recieve all the exception processing money (for the learning disabled, for the esl kids....for all those programs that dream of somehow making every kid accountable to the DoE.)
choices are great :nod:
but frankly, a voucher system, at this point in educational reform, is just nothing more than an admission that we the people have lost control of how are children are educated, and that we are powerless to change it's direction......it is, in effect, yet another government bailout to restore economic parity to a system that is collapsing under its own mismanaged weight....
actually, open enrollment districts stimulate their own competition....even with their severely taxed resources, they somehow manage to both raise test scores (even if failing to do "as good" as the feds require) AND maintain a variety of interesting -and considered by some to be unnecessary- "artsy fartsy" programs that add to the depth of experience education is supposed to provide, imo.
well again -and i'm not pushing open enrollment as THE solution- but in the district my daughter attended, it did provide that opprotunity....those kids who were left in the "lower income area" neighborhood schools -which, on scale from outstanding to "horrible", tended to be at the bottom- were there, from my perspective, because either their parents just weren't involved enough to care, or because they were so involved in a political agenda that their kids became pawns in the game.
as a sidebar tho, two things....a/even those neighborhood schools failed the "horrible test"...and b/the whole competitiveness of open enrollment disappeared at the high school level, where the emphasis on results shifts into high gear
it's a complicated issue, fox...but one thing strikes me as obvious....public school administrators see their students (and their parents) as "clients" -education is a business with a specific product, and economics rules the day...that makes parents a powerful consumer group....anybody with half a day, and a degree in rocket science
, can decipher their district's budget and find out its administrative costs.....that's a good place to start questioning the cost/benefit ratiomany of us don't feel like "we have the time" :surrender...but what the heck, it's just our kids.....besides, if i act all whiny and frustrated, big brother will step in and offer me money to go away.
How on earth would I be holding people to ransom? They don't have a right to my product. If they demand that I give it away for free, or even just sell it for a lower price, they are holding me at ransom, claiming that they have a right to what I've created and that I should sacrifice to them. AND I DO NOT SACRIFICE.
is this what private school teaches you?
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