ok...this oil spill

[Alien Allen]

Not true at all. I think Obama is doing a terrible job at getting this under control with the clean up and I'll be the first to say so.

But this isn't his fault. BP was required to have a plan in place along with the resources to clean up any potential mess, in that, they are failing. So who's fault is it?

And the friggin regulators dropped the ball on there not being a plan

That is not Obamas fault or Bushs

It is the nature of govt being corrupt

Being bigger does not mean better

Like a lot of other things in life we don't need more laws or regulations. We need to find a way to make sure people follow the existing ones.

 

[retro]

Of course you are, no surprises there. Maybe you should reserve a little disdain for the previous administration who served up America to the oil companies on a platter.



If blame is to be assigned on the Presidential level, Bush/Cheney should get the top spot. If our politically expedient forum members want to blame Obama, they can do that because he did not straighten out that oil office since taking office, but it seems like he is on it now, not that it would have made any difference if he had been on it sooner regarding this particular accident. My understanding was that there were several warning signs prior to the kaboom and BP dropped the ball.

Wait, what's this? MA blaming Bush? Oh the horror, I'm so shocked and surprised here. Been taking pointers from Obama I see. The man hasn't been President for over a year and a half, and yet Obama and the rest of you Democrats blame him for everything.

Here's a fact you can't change. This rig was given a safety award, after Obama took office... but I'm sure that's Bush's fault too somehow, right?

 

[Tim]

But since you seemed to know that's what Hannity has been saying, I guess I shouldn't take you seriously because you've obviously been listening to him. No wait, I shouldn't take you seriously because you voted for Obama for President.

And I would vote for Obama over McCain again knowing everything I know today.

And yes, you Libertarians would expect a big response out of a little government. Gotcha.

And with a small government disasters like this would be the norm because it would be the corporations that would rule the roost. (even more than today)
But I guess your free market will take care of this disaster, right? I mean BP will go out of business, new and exciting businesses will be born out of this disaster to clean it up, more people will be put to work and the economy will boom.

I can almost see you applauding rep. Barton when he apologized to Tony Hayward and basically accused the government of extortion with the demand for the $20 billion fund.

 

[Alien Allen]

I can almost see you applauding rep. Barton when he apologized to Tony Hayward and basically accused the government of extortion with the demand for the $20 billion fund.

The guy is the only one with balls to state the truth. It was extortion. That is the Chicago way.

 

[retro]

And I would vote for Obama over McCain again knowing everything I know today.

And yes, you Libertarians would expect a big response out of a little government. Gotcha.

And with a small government disasters like this would be the norm because it would be the corporations that would rule the roost. (even more than today)
But I guess your free market will take care of this disaster, right? I mean BP will go out of business, new and exciting businesses will be born out of this disaster to clean it up, more people will be put to work and the economy will boom.

I can almost see you applauding rep. Barton when he apologized to Tony Hayward and basically accused the government of extortion with the demand for the $20 billion fund.

So Timmy, I'm genuinely curious. How does it feel to be totally and completely clueless about what a Libertarian is? This type of situation is one of the few where there should be a governmental response, just like a natural disaster. Small government isn't no government, but those two terms seem to be mutually exclusive to you.

Oh, and I did applaud Rep. Barton, because he had the balls to tell the truth. The President of the United States of America has absolutely not fucking place demanding that a corporation put up money like that. Especially a corporation that isn't even based in America. BP is trying to hold their damn company together while trying to fix this mess and bracing for the wave of lawsuits that's going to hit them sooner rather than later. Meanwhile, the President of the United States is shaking them down for $20 billion. Well, that's the way things work in Chicago, so I guess it shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone.

 

[retro]

The guy is the only one with balls to state the truth. It was extortion. That is the Chicago way.

It's so nice to see that there are people that actually see things the way that they are.

 

[Alien Allen]

The liberals always use the anti govt bullshit when condemning libertarians Retro

Should not be a surprise. They need the nanny state to feel comfortable

 

[retro]

oh, and just so we're clear... I didn't vote for Obama or McCain, they were both horrible choices.

 

[retro]

The liberals always use the anti govt bullshit when condemning libertarians Retro

Should not be a surprise. They need the nanny state to feel comfortable

Well why bother to think for yourself when you can get the federal government to do it for you, right?

 

[Alien Allen]

Well why bother to think for yourself when you can get the federal government to do it for you, right?

I get the crap all the time about not being for govt. because my industry gets hammered by bullshit regulations. It has nothing to do with tiny govt but right sized govt. Ours is so friggin bloated it is absurd but the liberals think it is too small.

Cradle to grave baby

 

[Alien Allen]

Oh I forgot

Where are my manners

Time and Minor are not liberals :24::24::24::24:

 

[retro]

Oh I forgot

Where are my manners

Time and Minor are not liberals :24::24::24::24:

oh that's right, they're not card carrying members of the Democratic party... they're independents. Despite the fact that everything they say is in near perfect lock step with whatever is being spewed by that party at any given time.

 

[retro]

I get the crap all the time about not being for govt. because my industry gets hammered by bullshit regulations. It has nothing to do with tiny govt but right sized govt. Ours is so friggin bloated it is absurd but the liberals think it is too small.

Cradle to grave baby

It's really quite absurd that there are people out there that actually think there needs to be more government control over our lives. It's even more absurd that these same people are incapable of comprehending the fact that wanting a smaller government means that I want no government. But then again, that's probably because a small government is no government to them, since they think that the government should be providing for everyone in this country.

 

[hart]

its a major disaster i agree.....and when the facts eventually come out i'm not sure that people in bp and people in america will come out whiter than white.

now i have this question......theres been a huge criticism of bp in america,rightly so too.....but flip the coin over.....if this was an american company drilling off the coast of perhaps india and the same thing happened....would you all be as critical?.......i think not

Actually I would be as critical, the thing that bothers me the most about this disaster is the effect on the environment....I don't think the sealife, birds, etc., care which oil company dumped their shit in their environment........

 

[Kyle B]

Here is a reference: Bush Ignored Warnings. What's yours?

Here's a reference: Obama (and the dems) love Big Oil

" During the 2008 election cycle, individuals and political action committees associated with BP -- a Center for Responsive Politics' "heavy hitter" -- contributed half a million dollars to federal candidates. About 40 percent of these donations went to Democrats. The top recipient of BP-related donations during the 2008 cycle was President Barack Obama himself, who collected $71,000. BP regularly lobbies on Capitol Hill, as well. In 2009, the company spent a massive $16 million to influence legislation. During the first quarter of 2010, it spent $3.53 million on federal lobbying efforts, ranking it second (behind ConocoPhillips) among all oil and gas industry interests. "

 

[Minor Axis]

Wait, what's this? MA blaming Bush? Oh the horror, I'm so shocked and surprised here. Been taking pointers from Obama I see. The man hasn't been President for over a year and a half, and yet Obama and the rest of you Democrats blame him for everything.

Here's a fact you can't change. This rig was given a safety award, after Obama took office... but I'm sure that's Bush's fault too somehow, right?

The gulf oil drilling wave setup by the previous administration was well underway before Obama showed up. You want to blame him for not stopping it dead in it's tracks? As a partisan, be my guest. Do you think Obama should have personally reviewed that oil rig before it got it's safety award from the oil management office that was cozy with the oil companies? Yes it was a failure, but you probably don't feel like recalling that Obama had other more pressing issues on his plate at the beginning of his administration, like the unraveling of our financial markets? It would be way too fair to take that into consideration as you blast away.

 

[retro]

The gulf oil drilling wave setup by the previous administration was well underway before Obama showed up. You want to blame him for not stopping it dead in it's tracks? As a partisan, be my guest. Do you think Obama should have personally reviewed that oil rig before it got it's safety award from the oil management office that was cozy with the oil companies? Yes it was a failure, but you probably don't feel like recalling that Obama had other more pressing issues on his plate at the beginning of his administration, like the unraveling of our financial markets? It would be way too fair to take that into consideration as you blast away.

Except that I haven't blamed Obama for this happening. I've blamed him for the shitty response and lack of leadership exhibited by dear leader over the last two months. Perhaps that point will get through this time... Lord knows I've only said it 5-6 times at this point. God.

 

[Minor Axis]

Time and Minor are not liberals :24::24::24::24:

We appear to more liberal than the raving right (who is so wrong) residing in this forum. That's very true.. Lib/Con is all relative anyway. Ronald Reagan, the God of the Republican party, if he was alive and politically active would be attacked by your average Republican today, especially Tea Party types for not being conservative enough.

 

[Minor Axis]

Except that I haven't blamed Obama for this happening. I've blamed him for the shitty response and lack of leadership exhibited by dear leader over the last two months. Perhaps that point will get through this time... Lord knows I've only said it 5-6 times at this point. God.

You're argument was that BP got a safety award so Obama is incompetent. Most of criticism I've heard seems intent on gaining political advantage. No surprise is it? We don't live in country where this kind of situation is looked at from a neutral or fair basis. It more of how can I help my party win the next election.

BTW, it does not matter what kind of safety program you have, safety lasts only as long as you don't have an accident. This is one of the conundrums of working in any Safety Department. You can have a safety program that looks good on paper, but it's what people do, when the situation presents itself that can make the difference between having an accident or not.

 

[retro]

We appear to more liberal than the raving right (who is so wrong) residing in this forum. That's very true.. Lib/Con is all relative anyway. Ronald Reagan, the God of the Republican party, if he was alive and politically active would be attacked by your average Republican today, especially Tea Party types for not being conservative enough.

Once again proving how ridiculously out of touch and clueless you are. The largest Republican voting block around today are those that more than likely voted for Reagan in the first place. But hey, let's play this game... looks to be fun.

FDR, the god of the Democrat party, if he was alive and politically active today would be attacked by your average Democrat for not being liberal enough.

Hey, that was fun. I bet I could throw plenty of names in there.

The other thing that makes you clueless is that you see things in liberal/conservative. You're viewing things on a sliding scale, when it's two sliding scales that make up the scope of political views. I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. So what does that make me in your world? Apparently it make me a conservative, because you and Tim throw all of us with libertarian views or leanings in with the neocons. When it comes down to it though, we don't agree with that wing of political thinking, but it's closer to what we agree with than the big government, nanny state, spend spend spend that's the Democrats are all for.

There are plenty of us around here that don't like either major political party... but in your limited political view, we're all republicans because we don't agree with the Democrats. Meanwhile, I haven't seen you or Tim agree with a Republican on anything, and I don't think I've seen you take a Democrat to task on anything. Therefore, you look and act like a Democrat.... so despite your claims to the contrary, I have to believe that's what you are.