Obama's Crowning Moment?

[dt3]

I do not assume they are republicans... not at all.

But you would never know they weren't by their posts/views. They can call themselves anything they want, but their views are in lock step with the republicans.

So they aren't Republicans the same way you aren't a Democrat?

 

[Tim]

So they aren't Republicans the same way you aren't a Democrat?

EXACTLY! Now you got it

 

[retro]

So they aren't Republicans the same way you aren't a Democrat?

EXACTLY! Now you got it

Except that I've never seen Tim voice any views that aren't in lockstep with the Democrats. While I can't speak for everyone, the views that I've voiced are blatantly Libertarian. I can't be a Republican, because I'm far more fiscally conservative, while being socially liberal. I share some views with the GOP and I share other views with the Dems... but I've never seen Tim (or Minor Axis for that matter) agree with the Republicans about anything, all the while extolling the virtues of the Democratic party.

 

[dt3]

Except that I've never seen Tim voice any views that aren't in lockstep with the Democrats. While I can't speak for everyone, the views that I've voiced are blatantly Libertarian. I can't be a Republican, because I'm far more fiscally conservative, while being socially liberal. I share some views with the GOP and I share other views with the Dems... but I've never seen Tim (or Minor Axis for that matter) agree with the Republicans about anything, all the while extolling the virtues of the Democratic party.

That's my point. If somebody believes 90% of Republicans ideas then they must be a Republican. But if somebody believes in 90% of the Democrats ideas, they're an open-minded independent.

 

[Tim]

Jesus Christ, find something that I can agree on with the republicans and I will. Where the hell have they had a good idea in the last 10 years?

I have stated before.

1. I am pro gun ownership, hell I have a nice arsenal myself (Including a semi-auto)
2. I agree with tort reform (I just don't think it's the saving grace that it's being cracked up to be)
3. I believe in capitalism (I just don't believe in a free unregulated market, greed will always prevail)
4. I believe in buying insurance across state lines (But again that isn't any sort of saving grace)
5. I could go on.

There are many things that I disagree with when it comes to democratic policies... we just need to talk about them and I will voice my opinion.

But I'm not going to disagree with a policy just because it's democratic or republican. I support based on substance, not which party is backing it.

Like I have said in several threads, find me 1 piece of legislation proposed by the republicans that's actually a good.......and I will support it.

 

[dt3]

3. I believe in capitalism (I just don't believe in a free unregulated market, greed will always prevail)

I think right here is the source of our fundamental disagreement. I don't trust the government to not give in to greed. Government greed is no better or worse than personal or corporate greed.

I agree with parts from both sides, but I fundamentally disagree with them both because there hasn't been a President or Congress in decades who didn't try to massive increase the size and scope of government.

In fact, at a national level, none of the traditional planks and talking points should mean anything. If your Senator is pro-choice, so what? I believe that's a decision to be made by each state. Same with gay marriage. A congressman shouldn't have any influence on that, because it should be left up to the states. Ditto for just about any position on anything. These are NOT supposed to be federal issues. Our nation is supposed to be 50 independent governments that come together as one union, not one government controlling 50 smaller ones.

The 10th Amendment is the most beautiful thing to have ever been completely forgotten.

 

[Peter Parka]

J
Like I have said in several threads, find me 1 piece of legislation proposed by the republicans that's actually a good.......and I will support it.

Obviously, not being American, I've probably missed a lot but the jist of what I've seen from Republicans is, we hate everything Obama does, even if it's taking 5 minutes to tell our kids to work hard in school. I think they might have more success if they came up with some positive alternatives instead of giving Dana a run for his money in the moaning stakes.

 

[Alien Allen]

why is it so bad to be anti Obama if you are anything but a liberal?

They guy is a pro govt statist. Everything I would be against so of course I can not stand him.

 

[Minor Axis]

You still don't get it.

Maybe I don't.

why is it so bad to be anti Obama if you are anything but a liberal?

They guy is a pro govt statist. Everything I would be against so of course I can not stand him.

Since when did pro-government become a dirty word, 1980 or so? A typically illustration of this is we want services, but we always want our taxes lowered. I do understand the health care debate is on a different level but my example illustrates the dichotomy of the situation as pushed by some insincere politicians who want you to believe you can have something for nothing so you'll vote them into or keep them in office. And yes both parties do it.

 

[Alien Allen]

Maybe I don't.



Since when did pro-government become a dirty word, 1980 or so? A typically illustration of this is we want services, but we always want our taxes lowered. I do understand the health care debate is on a different level but my example illustrates the dichotomy of the situation as pushed by some insincere politicians who want you to believe you can have something for nothing so you'll vote them into or keep them in office. And yes both parties do it.

The problem is the govt determines what they think we want. It is like giving a kid a choice of 100 types of candy when you know candy is bad for you. Then ask the kid what he wants to keep. Of course the kid will want it all when he never should have been given the choice to begin with.

Keep the choices local and the money would not get wasted like the feds do.

We have way too many programs. Take a look at the constitution and tell me where on earth the feds were ever intended to get this much power. This goes way back to 80 or so years ago roughly when the supreme court made a bullshit ruling on the commercial clause.

I am not anti govt. I do not agree with anarchy. You just have a different vision of what govt should do.

 

[retro]

Maybe I don't.



Since when did pro-government become a dirty word, 1980 or so? A typically illustration of this is we want services, but we always want our taxes lowered. I do understand the health care debate is on a different level but my example illustrates the dichotomy of the situation as pushed by some insincere politicians who want you to believe you can have something for nothing so you'll vote them into or keep them in office. And yes both parties do it.

I don't want all of these government services, so yes I want my taxes lowered. The IRS is already saying that they're going to need an extra $10 billion in funding in order to do their job as the "enforcers" of this lovely piece of legislation signed into law today. Or we could, hmm... I don't know, abolish the IRS and institute the FairTax system instead. Hell, the savings we'd see by simply eliminating the IRS would be $12.15 billion that could be used to pay down our national debt or reduce the ridiculous budget deficit. We need to be cutting back on our unsustainable entitlement programs, and not further increasing them. The government is stretching itself far beyond its means with this bill, and we were already stretched beyond it already.

I have a huge problem with big government, because it flies directly in the face of the Constitution, which I still uphold to be the highest law of the land.

 

[Minor Axis]

I have a huge problem with big government, because it flies directly in the face of the Constitution, which I still uphold to be the highest law of the land.

There does not seem to be much traction today when it comes to the Constitution and what or what it does not apply to. I've never thought every thing the government does has to be in the Constitution. That document provides general guidelines. I assume that most of the people in the U.S. along with most politicians go along with this premise or you'd see a giant movement throwing out all those who don't adhere to the principle of allowing the government only to do what is specifically spelled out by the Constitution. But that is not happening. Why?

 

[Accountable]

Come on, that's really stretching. Every president talks like that.

There is no take over planned by the democrats.
It's nothing more than fear mongering from the other side when they say that the democrats want big government to keep us all dependent on them.
If you look at the historical record, the republicans have grown government more than any democrat. So it's just fear mongering when they accuse democrats of having big government agendas.

Jesus fucking Christ, Tim! Apparently that AV of yours is your personal X-ray, because you just don't get it. I'm not saying Democrats are bad and Republicans are good. I have NEVER said Republicans are good. I'm not saying the Democrats are growing the government and the Republicans aren't. I'm saying they both are!

Why can't you cram into that head of yours that not everyone that disagrees with a Democrat is in love with Republicans?? Is your entire world two dimensional? Are you really as thick in real life as you insist on acting online?

Get someone literate to read this to you and explain it, because obviously you suck at reading on your own.

 

[Accountable]

Since when did pro-government become a dirty word, 1980 or so?

More like 1776

 

[Minor Axis]

Jesus fucking Christ, Tim!

C-a-l-m, feel the warm tinglies surround you, and relax. In 50 years or so, you'll be wondering what all the fuss was about...

 

[Accountable]

Sorry for the meltdown.

 

[Tim]

Jesus fucking Christ, Tim! Apparently that AV of yours is your personal X-ray, because you just don't get it. I'm not saying Democrats are bad and Republicans are good. I have NEVER said Republicans are good. I'm not saying the Democrats are growing the government and the Republicans aren't. I'm saying they both are!

Why can't you cram into that head of yours that not everyone that disagrees with a Democrat is in love with Republicans?? Is your entire world two dimensional? Are you really as thick in real life as you insist on acting online?

Get someone literate to read this to you and explain it, because obviously you suck at reading on your own.

Ummmm, I never said you were a democrat/republican/etc. I'm just comparing the ONLY two parties we have that have any say over how the government is run.

I would love to see your posts from the Bush days. I have a sinking suspicion that you weren't half as hard on his administration... :dunno just a guess

 

[Accountable]

Ummmm, I never said you were a democrat/republican/etc. I'm just comparing the ONLY two parties we have that have any say over how the government is run.

Your little tap dance isn't entertaining any more.

I would love to see your posts from the Bush days. I have a sinking suspicion that you weren't half as hard on his administration... :dunno just a guess

I was serving in the Air Force during the first half of his administration. He was my Commander-in-Chief. After that, I did my damnedest to give him the benefit of the doubt, but the Iraq invasion was just too much to ignore. As I learned more about the "Patriot" Act, I really felt betrayed. It was a painful transition as my vision - and my head - cleared.

I see much more clearly now.

 

[dt3]

There does not seem to be much traction today when it comes to the Constitution and what or what it does not apply to. I've never thought every thing the government does has to be in the Constitution. That document provides general guidelines. I assume that most of the people in the U.S. along with most politicians go along with this premise or you'd see a giant movement throwing out all those who don't adhere to the principle of allowing the government only to do what is specifically spelled out by the Constitution. But that is not happening. Why?

Because most Americans can name more American Idol winners than they can Constitutional Amendments.

 

[Accountable]

Here's a nice development. Several of the states' attorneys general are suing about the new law. Here's a radio interview with the Texas Attorney General.


http://www.ktsa.com/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=4498677