Obama's Crowning Moment?

[Alien Allen]

Tim you are living in denial if you think this will pass with no consequences

Specially if they use deem and pass which has never been used for anything remotely this significant

I am as pro choice as you can get and it scares the shit out of me the dems would consider using deem and pass for NHC when it does not have support because the reps could do the same to prohibit abortions.

Show me Tim anything that was passed this way that was even remotely this controversial and has even a fraction of the impact this would have on the country

 

[Tim]

Well it looks like the senate bill will go to the floor for an up and down vote. Looks like they are scrapping the deem and pass route.

But I would encourage you to look into the deem and pass tactic and how often it was used by the repubs in the middle of the night. So if you truly are upset by this tactic, then point the finger in the right direction.

 

[Tim]

Oh, BTW. Deem and pass was challenged in court before by the democrats and they weren't able to stop it. It's not considered unconstitutional

 

[Alien Allen]

There was nothing on this scale of scope and importance passed that way by the reps

The equivalent would be them banning abortion

Nothing even remotely this important has ever passed with out some degree of bipartisianship

Time you liberals understand that and adjust rather than to whine about the reps being the party of no. If this was a decent bill you would have enough defections. When not even one of the rinos in the northeast supports it you know it has to be crap

 

[retro]

Well it looks like the senate bill will go to the floor for an up and down vote. Looks like they are scrapping the deem and pass route.

But I would encourage you to look into the deem and pass tactic and how often it was used by the repubs in the middle of the night. So if you truly are upset by this tactic, then point the finger in the right direction.

I don't give a shit who used it in the middle of the night in the past, like I *already* said, it was just as much bullshit then as it is now. Stop acting as though I'm a card carrying member of the Republican party... I happen to disagree with their politics and tactics whole helluva lot as I've gone into in depth in other threads here. You on the other hand never (as near as I've been able to tell) have anything negative to say about the Democrats, except that you wish they'd take this healthcare bill even further.

Good on the Dems for scrapping deem and pass, unfortunately I think that tells me that they think they have the votes to pass this disaster.

There will be massive consequences for the Democratic party as a direct result of this legislation, if it passes.

 

[Accountable]

Oh, BTW. Deem and pass was challenged in court before by the democrats and they weren't able to stop it. It's not considered unconstitutional

When? About what bill/law?

 

[Accountable]

Well it looks like the senate bill will go to the floor for an up and down vote. Looks like they are scrapping the deem and pass route.

"Our objective all along was to make it clear that the House is amending the Senate bill, and we found another way of accomplishing that," Van Hollen said in an interview.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/20/AR2010032001651.html?hpid=topnews

So why didn't they simply amend it? They've got the numbers.

 

[retro]

oh and by the way, there's a very distinct difference between the self-executing rule that was being considered and how it's been used previously. The House leadership intended to send this bill straight to the President to be signed into law. When it's been used in the past it has been to incorporate amendments into pending legislation, which is then still subject to final vote by both the House and Senate before being signed into law. They were trying to circumvent the checks and balances that are a part of this country, and violating the Constitution in the process. Which makes the original plan of using of Deem and Pass for this absolutely unconstitutional, and distinctly different from any other prior use that I've found.

 

[MoonOwl]

It's been awhile since I actually researched and counted. A couple of years. But the last time I checked there were only about SIX people in our government that actually appeared to be working for US. Six.

Says much..............

 

[Minor Axis]

I can only hope and pray that this will lead to universal health care and the death of private primary health insurance.

I second Tim's notion and Peter you weren't expecting any good vibes from the conservatives in the forum now were you? Mark this, the Republican will be crying loud and hard, it's the end of the U.S. and will be trying to rip Obama a new one at the next election. Hopefully the positive aspects of this program will be recognized by the majority and they act accordingly.

The primary goal of the Republican Party has failed- make Obama a failure by stopping every program he sponsors even if it is something they normally would support. This is where U.S. politics are today, in the toilet and it's going to hurt this country severely. The 1960's were the age of civility as compared to today.

oh and by the way, there's a very distinct difference between the self-executing rule that was being considered and how it's been used previously. The House leadership intended to send this bill straight to the President to be signed into law. When it's been used in the past it has been to incorporate amendments into pending legislation, which is then still subject to final vote by both the House and Senate before being signed into law. They were trying to circumvent the checks and balances that are a part of this country, and violating the Constitution in the process. Which makes the original plan of using of Deem and Pass for this absolutely unconstitutional, and distinctly different from any other prior use that I've found.

If you can post a decent link supporting your opinion that might be good.

 

[Tangerine]

I'm still waiting for links about all these supposed bills that were passed by Republicans using "Deem and Pass."

 

[Maulds]

Republicans arent just opposing it because of Obama, they were opposed to Hilary-Care too. I'm not crazy about the federal funding of abortion that was included in this bill.

Tomorrow should be interesting, no doubt.

 

[Alien Allen]

Abortion was probably the only point the reps could get any of the dems to defect

Which is kind of sickening. I don't give a shit about abortion being part of politics. I makes both sides too exclusive whether they want to admit it or not.

The reps had plenty of stuff to shoot this shit down but have failed to deliver on that.

Unless there is a massive show up at the protest tomorrow I am afraid this is gonna pass. At least this phase. There still would appear to be measures that have to be sent back by the senate to the house for approval.

And there will be plenty of issues sent to the courts to sort out. Although given how they fucked over the investors for GM during their bankruptcy I am not gonna expect much in the way of common sense rule of law coming from the courts

 

[retro]

I second Tim's notion and Peter you weren't expecting any good vibes from the conservatives in the forum now were you? Mark this, the Republican will be crying loud and hard, it's the end of the U.S. and will be trying to rip Obama a new one at the next election. Hopefully the positive aspects of this program will be recognized by the majority and they act accordingly.

The primary goal of the Republican Party has failed- make Obama a failure by stopping every program he sponsors even if it is something they normally would support. This is where U.S. politics are today, in the toilet and it's going to hurt this country severely. The 1960's were the age of civility as compared to today.

Or maybe, just maybe... the GOP is actually siding the the majority of citizens for once and opposing something because they don't believe that it is good for the country. Take off your pathetic partisan glasses for once and actually try and view things objectively for the love of God. You and Tim are pathetic, for no matter you try to claim the contrary, you are nothing but card carrying members of the Democratic party, if not officially, then in ideology and actuality.

and there's no freaking point in me trying to go find a link, because it'll just be attacked because you don't like the source, so quite honestly, I'm not going to waste my time.

 

[retro]

Abortion was probably the only point the reps could get any of the dems to defect

Which is kind of sickening. I don't give a shit about abortion being part of politics. I makes both sides too exclusive whether they want to admit it or not.

The reps had plenty of stuff to shoot this shit down but have failed to deliver on that.

Unless there is a massive show up at the protest tomorrow I am afraid this is gonna pass. At least this phase. There still would appear to be measures that have to be sent back by the senate to the house for approval.

And there will be plenty of issues sent to the courts to sort out. Although given how they fucked over the investors for GM during their bankruptcy I am not gonna expect much in the way of common sense rule of law coming from the courts

I fully expect this to go all the way to the Supreme Court if it passes.

 

[Minor Axis]

Or maybe, just maybe... the GOP is actually siding the the majority of citizens for once and opposing something because they don't believe that it is good for the country. Take off your pathetic partisan glasses for once and actually try and view things objectively for the love of God. You and Tim are pathetic, for no matter you try to claim the contrary, you are nothing but card carrying members of the Democratic party, if not officially, then in ideology and actuality.

and there's no freaking point in me trying to go find a link, because it'll just be attacked because you don't like the source, so quite honestly, I'm not going to waste my time.

Now in another post you were complaining about being insulted and here you've called me pathetic twice. You need to work on consistent standards. And you've never attacked anyone's sources in a forum posting you disagree with, uh-huh. :ninja

I'm completely objective and I assume you feel you are too. We need a federal study to figure out how the term "objective" can have such a different meaning to politically opposed people.

 

[Accountable]

Or maybe, just maybe... the GOP is actually siding the the majority of citizens for once and opposing something because they don't believe that it is good for the country.

You don't really believe that, do you? If that were true the argument would be on constitutionality, rather than that the dems didn't give enough consideration to Republican ideas (had to capitalize that lest someone think they had republican ideas). The GOP is sitting in the very comfortable position of being able to oppose something they hope to be in control of after the next election. Whatever monstrosity gets passed today will not be eliminated if & when the reps get back on top. They'll give lip service to how bad the law is as it stands then will pass some additional measures to give themselves yet more power.

 

[retro]

You don't really believe that, do you? If that were true the argument would be on constitutionality, rather than that the dems didn't give enough consideration to Republican ideas (had to capitalize that lest someone think they had republican ideas). The GOP is sitting in the very comfortable position of being able to oppose something they hope to be in control of after the next election. Whatever monstrosity gets passed today will not be eliminated if & when the reps get back on top. They'll give lip service to how bad the law is as it stands then will pass some additional measures to give themselves yet more power.

I don't particularly agree with the statement (though I believe there are some members of the GOP who feel that way), but I said it since the hardcore Dems around here seem to be convinced that they're pushing this through because they actually care. So if they believe that the dems actually care and that's why they're trying to pass this legislation, then wouldn't it stand to reason that the GOP is doing the same thing? Oh wait, that's right... the GOP evil and bad, and the dems are wholesome and caring.

 

[Accountable]

I don't particularly agree with the statement (though I believe there are some members of the GOP who feel that way), but I said it since the hardcore Dems around here seem to be convinced that they're pushing this through because they actually care. So if they believe that the dems actually care and that's why they're trying to pass this legislation, then wouldn't it stand to reason that the GOP is doing the same thing? Oh wait, that's right... the GOP evil and bad, and the dems are wholesome and caring.

That would stand to reason. I don't really know or care about their motivation. They are doing irreparable harm to my beloved country.

 

[dustsped]

According to the "Live Blog of the House vote on health care reform" as of 10:47 PM EST it says "The House has passed health care reform by a vote of 219 to 210. That link is the article about it.

Edit: Apparently, that's been updated now at the blog of a vote of 219 to 212. Here's the blog to keep updated: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1288