Nutjobs and health care

[Accountable]

No I'm not employed. I'm on state benifits caring for a sick wife. I'm open to suggestions though, if I was living in the USA, how I would be able to afford your wonderful health care, and I'm not talking about your shitty voluntry run ones which cant even compare to the level of care I get from the NHS.

Then you would qualify for our social security system & medicaid. Very much like your system, I'm told. I get the feeling that people outside the States think we have people dying in the streets, for fuck's sake.

 

[Alien Allen]

Acc have you looked at the Swiss system? I only know what I saw from the one comparison that was cited in a link here but it seems to be a good way to go. We need the power of purchasing to be in the hands of individuals and not business owners. Let the owners compensate a given amount to an employer but the individual determines the company and coverage. That should create competition and help curb costs.

 

[Peter Parka]

Then you would qualify for our social security system & medicaid. Very much like your system, I'm told. I get the feeling that people outside the States think we have people dying in the streets, for fuck's sake.

So who exactly are all these people in the US I keep hearing about who get landed with huge medical bills they cant afford or just cannot afford adequate health care in the first place? Why can't they get medicaid?

 

[PoopaSwoof]

So who exactly are all these people in the US I keep hearing about who get landed with huge medical bills they cant afford or just cannot afford adequate health care in the first place? Why can't they get medicaid?

We are just average middle class Americans that have been price gouged to death.
It sucks when you have to make a choice between keeping a roof over your head and food on the table or have health insurance. I make too much to qualify for Medicaid.
I really dont think Congress is going to pass anything helpful to our situation. The only thing I can hope for is a State run program but I doubt that will ever happen.

Just screwed I guess.

 

[Tangerine]

I dont get why having a national health service will screw anyones medical care over. If you dont like the national service, what's stopping you having private treatment like you already do? :dunno

What's stopping us is that the new legislation elimates any new personal policies from being written. If you have a current plan, it will not go away. But if you drop out of it for any reason - changing jobs, etc - you may not acquire a new policy. Your only option at that point would be the National Plan.

I'm not OK with having that choice taken away from me. One of the key tenets of life in the US is the ability to "take me business elsewhere" if I'm not happy. The few instances where we don't have that options (utilities, cable TV, the DMV) are almost ALWAYS rife with bad service and bad experiences.

 

[Peter Parka]

The few instances where we don't have that options (utilities, cable TV, the DMV) are almost ALWAYS rife with bad service and bad experiences.

You only have one cable service in the USA??? Damn, that sucks! :eek

Anyway, sorry to go offtopic there, carry on...

 

[Tangerine]

You only have one cable service in the USA??? Damn, that sucks! :eek

Anyway, sorry to go offtopic there, carry on...

Each community licenses a single cable provider. Where you live determines which cable company you must deal with. Your only other options is a satellite service. There are some communities that have allowed competition, but it is teh exception and not the rule.

 

[Peter Parka]

Thats bad, we have several here!

 

[Tangerine]

No comment about the fact that our option to choose private insurance over the National plan is being eliminated?

 

[Peter Parka]

Well if it is being eliminated, thats bad though I dont see that it is. Plenty of private health insurance over here if you want it after 50 odds nears of the NHS. If it really is going to eliminate private health insurance, I guess there are some fundamental flaws in how its being set up. Dosen't mean that national health care is a bad idea though, just how its implemented.

 

[Accountable]

Acc have you looked at the Swiss system? I only know what I saw from the one comparison that was cited in a link here but it seems to be a good way to go. We need the power of purchasing to be in the hands of individuals and not business owners. Let the owners compensate a given amount to an employer but the individual determines the company and coverage. That should create competition and help curb costs.

If my state wants to adopt such a system I'll be glad to look at it ... may even vote for it. It might be a fine program for the other states to use as a benchmark for their own programs. A federal monopoly is not the way to go.

I agree that purchasing power should be in the individual's hands. Responsibility of payment should also be there for the program to really be effective. Spending other people's money is not the way to cut costs. Just look at Washington.

A thought just came to me. Why not hire a doctor on retainer. If his patient load is large enough he can make a good living while charging affordable rates.

 

[Accountable]

So who exactly are all these people in the US I keep hearing about who get landed with huge medical bills they cant afford or just cannot afford adequate health care in the first place? Why can't they get medicaid?

I don't have an answer. I don't know who they are. I haven't met them. If I were Guyzer I'd say our system is perfect because I haven't had any issues.

That's the problem with anecdotal evidence. Sure the stories pull at your heartstrings, but what percentage of people are like that one?

 

[Guyzerr]

I don't have an answer. I don't know who they are. I haven't met them. If I were Guyzer I'd say our system is perfect because I haven't had any issues.

That's the problem with anecdotal evidence. Sure the stories pull at your heartstrings, but what percentage of people are like that one?

I've never said our system is perfect and I'm smart enough to realize that it never will be. But.. myself and everyone I know along with every citizen of Canada can see a doctor of his / her choosing, visit a hospital and receive good treatment without the fear of receiving a bill down that road that we can't afford.

In one of the posts here it was mentioned that only 15% of Americans can't afford insurance. Just using round numbers of a population of 300 million that would be 45 million that have the fear I mentioned above. That # is more than the entire population of Canada and that's something I can't fathom.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. You need to get private for profit corporations out of the picture before any system will work to the benefit of your people.

 

[Tangerine]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. You need to get private for profit corporations out of the picture before any system will work to the benefit of your people.

I couldn't possibly agree with this statement any less.

 

[Alien Allen]

I don't understand the profit part of this. Blue Cross is a non profit. They are one of the large carriers in the country if I am not mistaken. So how is it they are the most expensive insurance out there. At least in MI they are.

 

[Accountable]

Profit motive encourages a company to run leaner and more efficiently. A non-profit or not-for-profit (I think there's some kind of difference) simply have to show that they're not making a profit. In other words, they have to spend all the money they take in. Makes for some very nice office furniture.

 

[Maulds]

I don't understand the profit part of this. Blue Cross is a non profit. They are one of the large carriers in the country if I am not mistaken. So how is it they are the most expensive insurance out there. At least in MI they are.

They provide a better service for the fees. My employer dropped Blue Cross last year and the insurance we have now is cheaper but not as good.

 

[Meirionnydd]

You've posted this stat a couple of times, so I figure it's not a number you've pulled out of your ass. Whose ass did you pull it out of? I've googled your phrase and came up with nothing.

This article, pulled out of the ass of the US census bureau - http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/567737 - Claims that 47 million Americans are uninsured. It's dated back to 2008, so it's not the most reliable estimate.

I'll try to find something which matches my 50 million assertion when I have more time.

And Insuring America's Health: Principles and Recommendations - Institute of Medicine claims that there are 18,000 deaths each year resulting from the lack of health insurance.

 

[Accountable]

I was referring to the 16,000 number; that's why I quoted it twice. The first time you said that many die each year because they can't get access to treatment, then you said that many die each year because they can't get proper coverage. I'm really not interested in the estimated uninsured.

Your 18,000 link throws the number into the first sentence but doesn't say where the number comes from. the associated pdf file doesn't mention it at all. This is important to me because stats are a favorite tool to mislead, confuse, and scare people. Things like this I like to chase to the source to see who did the counting and who paid for it.

 

[Meirionnydd]

I was referring to the 16,000 number; that's why I quoted it twice. The first time you said that many die each year because they can't get acceess to treatment, then you said that many die each year because they can't get proper coverage.

Ahh fair enough. I should have worded it better, I would have meant to say something like '16,000 Americans die each year resulting from a lack of health insurance.'

Sorry for any confusion there.