Nutjobs and health care

[Peter Parka]

I dont get why having a national health service will screw anyones medical care over. If you dont like the national service, what's stopping you having private treatment like you already do? :dunno

 

[Meirionnydd]

Got to wonder why Daniel Hannan sits as an MEP for a party that opposes his view on the NHS and whose leader distances himself from Hannans remarks about the NHS.
Hannan is just a loose cannon and his remarks are not shared by the vast majority of people who experience the NHS first hand.
Of course his view is going to be Fox's wet dream.

Oh yes. I guess Fox was like, 'OMG SOMEONE FROM EUROPE OPPOSES A NATIONAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM? THEN IT MUST BE TOTALLY TRUE. POST THIS SHIT ON OUR WEBSITE RIGHT AWAY'

And yes, knowing Fox, it would have been said in ALL CAPS.

And another note, both the conservative movements in Australia and the UK support national healthcare systems. Hell, our former conservative Prime Minister expanded it. Something like a universal healthcare system, isn't a left-right issue.

 

[Peter Parka]

Oh yes. I guess Fox was like, 'OMG SOMEONE FROM EUROPE OPPOSES A NATIONAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM? THEN IT MUST BE TOTALLY TRUE. POST THIS SHIT ON OUR WEBSITE RIGHT AWAY'

And yes, knowing Fox, it would have been said in ALL CAPS.

And another note, both the conservative movements in Australia and the UK support national healthcare systems. Hell, our former conservative Prime Minister expanded it. Something like a universal healthcare system, isn't a left-right issue.

Exactly! I dont know of any party in Britain, main or minority who is opposed to the NHS. As I've already pointed out, Daniel Hannon might be a Conservative but is just a loose cannon. His leader distances himself from his comments about the NHS and is probably cringeing at them.

 

[Alien Allen]

When you get it? More like if.

And second to none? Okay, maybe Bill Gates and Micheal Bloomberg might get world class treatment, but a working class family with basic health coverage? Ahh no.



Uhm yeah.

16,000 people in the United States die each year because they can't get access to treatment, if that's the price the insured are willing to pay so that they don't have to put up with 'reduced care', then those people really need to take a long hard look at themselves.

It doesn't make sense for a healthcare system to have people that have lifetime coverage, but almost never visit the doctor. And at the same time have people with serious aliments that need regular medical treatment, but can't get it because they're not insured.

50 million uninsured is disgusting . If something like 3 million Australians didn't have adequate access to health care, i'd feel pretty guilty every time I went to visit my doctor.

You are flat out wrong thinking that only the elite rich get care. That is just bull shit.

As to the 50 million that also is a bullshit number. Sounds good but it still is 15%. And of that well over half are illegal aliens and young people who do not want to pay for health care because they are not sick.

Nice talking points but none of it merits a takeover of 20% of GDP by the feds. Typical liberal socialist and statist agendas that want to throw a wet blanket over a match to put out a fire instead of dealing with the people that fall in the cracks.

I am not against something like the Swiss have but no way do I want the crap that Canada and Britain have. And you have only listened to the liberal sound bites and not read the bill if you think this plan is anything less than an eventual take over of all health care by the feds.

 

[Maulds]

And you have only listened to the liberal sound bites and not read the bill if you think this plan is anything less than an eventual take over of all health care by the feds.

Thats the problem, I think almost no one has read the bill. But I also don't consider myself a nutjob for thinking the federal government of the US will totally screw it up like most everything else they do.

 

[Peter Parka]

I am not against something like the Swiss have but no way do I want the crap that Canada and Britain have. And you have only listened to the liberal sound bites and not read the bill if you think this plan is anything less than an eventual take over of all health care by the feds.

So if it comes in, why dont you just stick with your private health care? :dunno

 

[Meirionnydd]

You are flat out wrong thinking that only the elite rich get care. That is just bull shit.

Err, I never said that the rich are the only ones to get care. I said that, the rich are probably the only people that get the world class healthcare that everyone keeps going on about.

A working class family with basic coverage, wouldn't get healthcare that's 'second to none', that's just logical.

As to the 50 million that also is a bullshit number. Sounds good but it still is 15%. And of that well over half are illegal aliens and young people who do not want to pay for health care because they are not sick.

A good portion of that number are middle class Americans. Even those who are insured aren't fully covered, there's gaps in the coverage they get. In addition, people in the US spend more in out of pocket expenses than anyone else in the world. 50% spent more than $1,000 on out of pocket payments in any given year, compared to, say, 10% of Australians.

Nice talking points but none of it merits a takeover of 20% of GDP by the feds. Typical liberal socialist and statist agendas that want to throw a wet blanket over a match to put out a fire instead of dealing with the people that fall in the cracks.

I think it does. When you have 50 million uninsured, 16,000 people dying each year because they can't get proper coverage and HMO's simply denying people coverage and treatment for retarded reasons, normally someone would say..

'Hey, shouldn't somebody do something about this?'

That's generally when the government will step in, you won't see a corporation saying, 'Ahh, this is horrible! We MUST cover these people'. Unless, of course, it could make them money.

Right now, in the US, Healthcare is run by massive corporations with little accountablity, it's CEO's are being paid MASSIVE bonuses each year, while they deny people's insurance claims. Having the government take over isn't a bad idea. Because, they can be held accountable for their actions, and primarily because, you elect them into office .

Jeez, it's not like the US is some sort of authoritarian country. I think some people forget that when they go on whining like 4 year-olds with statements like, 'Keep your government hands off my Medicare!'

I am not against something like the Swiss have but no way do I want the crap that Canada and Britain have. And you have only listened to the liberal sound bites and not read the bill if you think this plan is anything less than an eventual take over of all health care by the feds.

Why are you against something that the UK and Canada have? Honestly, government run healthcare isn't a bad thing. But someone watching Fox would come to the conclusion of...

'This tyranny will not stand! Ahh socialism!'

I'm not a supporter of this bill, either.

 

[Meirionnydd]

So if it comes in, why dont you just stick with your private health care? :dunno

He's paranoid that the Federal Government will completely takeover the healthcare system and abolish private plans?

That's not going to happen. Here in Australia and the UK, we have private insurers.

 

[Docc_eee_aww]

Right on to that. I lived on england and currently live in Detroit. Have many friends that are canadian and brittish, but the only real horror stories I hear are from americans. A friend's daughter denied health care for cancer...took several months, with hospital and doctors getting involved, before the health care provider started paying. Luckily UofM hospital started treatment without approval -- they say if they didn't, she would not have recovered. That story alone -- just that true stroy -- shows how fucked our american 'system' is. The health care provider has to do things like that that or can't make money -- and that is what the current system is about.
Anyone questions changing what we have now should have a discussion with my friend -- you will for sure need health care after that discussion!

 

[Accountable]

I didn't read your link.

I base my decisions about our system from my personal experiences. I've had enough of 'em to write a book.

As far as " the shit you wallow in " goes I base that on what I read.

So you "don't know a fucking thing", to use your words about our system, and only what you've personally experienced about your own, yet you feel very comfortable posting what you did. I'll let everybody else see the irony/hypocrisy here, because I'm certain it's lost on you.

Oh, and sorry about the mixup thinking you were a full-fledged Brit, rather than just a subsidiary.

 

[Alien Allen]

If you already had an inferior system then that is what you are used to. If I get sick I don't have to wait in line all day to see a doctor or wait weeks or months for tests. That will be the end result if Obamacare is passed. And if you think this will end up with people not paying anything out of pocket you are delusional.

 

[Meirionnydd]

If you already had an inferior system then that is what you are used to. If I get sick I don't have to wait in line all day to see a doctor or wait weeks or months for tests. That will be the end result if Obamacare is passed. And if you think this will end up with people not paying anything out of pocket you are delusional.

Americans generally wait longer to see a doctor than people in most other countries with 'socialized medicine', so you don't need to worry about that.

And I never said that 'Obamacare' would end up with people not having to pay out of pocket expenses. Sorry if you thought I implied that.

 

[Peter Parka]

If I was in the USA in my current situation, I wouldn't have to wait to see a doctor, I just wouldn't see one full stop as I wouldn't be able to afford to. Nope, think our "crappy" system is much better than the USA's.

 

[Accountable]

16,000 people in the United States die each year because they can't get access to treatment,

When you have 50 million uninsured, 16,000 people dying each year because they can't get proper coverage[...]

You've posted this stat a couple of times, so I figure it's not a number you've pulled out of your ass. Whose ass did you pull it out of? I've googled your phrase and came up with nothing.

 

[Accountable]

I dont get why having a national health service will screw anyones medical care over. If you dont like the national service, what's stopping you having private treatment like you already do? :dunno

So if it comes in, why dont you just stick with your private health care? :dunno

We have a (relatively) free market system here, when it's not screwed by greedy politicians bribed by corporate lobbyists. A public option injects unfair competition into the mix. Employers control most health insurance decisions, for better or worse (mostly worse), and will generally always go for the least expensive option. This will decrease demand for lower-level private insurance, driving the price out of reach of those who would otherwise choose it.

 

[Maulds]

Americans generally wait longer to see a doctor than people in most other countries with 'socialized medicine', so you don't need to worry about that.

In the Stossel video link they made a big deal out of the wait to see a doctor in England and Canada, I have never had that problem here. I am not that familiar with your healthcare systems in England and Canada and won't claim to be but my wait time in an ER has never exceeded 2 hours and I have almost always been able to see my doctor on the next day if not the same day I called his office to set up an appointment. As it pertains to the discussion I have lived in the southeastern US for all of my 35 years. Even at a point in my life when I didnt have any health insurance I was never denied services or subjected to lengthy waits.

 

[Guyzerr]

So you "don't know a fucking thing", to use your words about our system, and only what you've personally experienced about your own, yet you feel very comfortable posting what you did. I'll let everybody else see the irony/hypocrisy here, because I'm certain it's lost on you.

Well I see the same people posting the same shit and not one of you / them has any personal experience with it. You / them just continue to post negative comments but don't bother to pay attention to those that do. Answer me this svp. Why?

There is no irony or hypocrisy in what I posted. A person doesn't have to read very far to uncover the garbage that takes place in your country with reference to your system. That said, I do know quite a few people from the US, mainly all very wealthy, and have heard them complain about this isn. co. or that policy or the amount they have to spend on premiums so it isn't hard for me to decide which side of the fence I want to be on.

Oh, and sorry about the mixup thinking you were a full-fledged Brit, rather than just a subsidiary.

Was that supposed to be funny?

 

[Accountable]

If I was in the USA in my current situation, I wouldn't have to wait to see a doctor, I just wouldn't see one full stop as I wouldn't be able to afford to. Nope, think our "crappy" system is much better than the USA's.

Apples and oranges, my friend. If you were in the USA and assuming you're employed, you'd likely be earning a higher real wage since tax withholding would be lower and goods don't have the VAT (value added tax) tacked onto the price. You're employer would subsidize your health insurance. If unemployed, or even better homeless, you could waltz into any emergency room and they'd take care of you. Also, many inner cities have free clinics.

We have healthcare, it's just not a national government-run program. You have what you've got and it fits your culture. It doesn't fit ours.

 

[Peter Parka]

Apples and oranges, my friend. If you were in the USA and assuming you're employed, you'd likely be earning a higher real wage since tax withholding would be lower and goods don't have the VAT (value added tax) tacked onto the price. You're employer would subsidize your health insurance. If unemployed, or even better homeless, you could waltz into any emergency room and they'd take care of you. Also, many inner cities have free clinics.

We have healthcare, it's just not a national government-run program. You have what you've got and it fits your culture. It doesn't fit ours.

No I'm not employed. I'm on state benifits caring for a sick wife. I'm open to suggestions though, if I was living in the USA, how I would be able to afford your wonderful health care, and I'm not talking about your shitty voluntry run ones which cant even compare to the level of care I get from the NHS.

 

[Accountable]

Well I see the same people posting the same shit and not one of you / them has any personal experience with it. You / them just continue to post negative comments but don't bother to pay attention to those that do. Answer me this svp. Why?

Macro view vs micro view. We are debating on whether it is the right system for us. Just like looking for a house, a car, or a blouse on the clearance rack. We have to know all the negatives, examine them, and decide if they are negatives we can live with.