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Mercury

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.......... Learned that STRONG toys are a necessity!

Tennis Balls are not up to the challenge ... neither were a couple of squeaky toys. LOL

Another good sign: Today, my 3 year old daughter was running around and acting all crazy and ended up falling over the dog while she was standing eating her food. I was immediately on my feet ready to spring to action ... but ... fortunately, the dog, Ava, didn't mind at all. She didn't even flinch. She just kept on eating. Now Ava is chewing on her new toy (which is made to be a bit more stronger) while laying on her bed. :)
 
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Mercury

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I have had 3 of that breed over the years. The females are less likely to get nasty around other dogs than the males. Had to shoot the one male at 2 years old after he turned on my old beagle one day for no reason. We had him from a puppy too. The other male was with us for 13 years till he passed.


That's good to know about the females. I did read that males are a bit more apt to being aggressive (especially if not neutered) than the females.
 

Johnfromokc

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I have had 3 of that breed over the years. The females are less likely to get nasty around other dogs than the males. Had to shoot the one male at 2 years old after he turned on my old beagle one day for no reason. We had him from a puppy too. The other male was with us for 13 years till he passed.

Just be glad it wasn't a child that dog got hold of. I read a tragedy story about pit bulls and mauled children about twice a month. Pitts and some other breeds are like guns - idiot's shouldn't own them. Huge responsibility comes with owning dogs.

Interesting article on pitt bulls:

http://www.dog-bite-law-center.com/pit_bull_attacks.html

http://dogbitelaw.com/dog-bite-statistics/dog-bite-statistics.html
 

Joe the meek

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The other month I saw a local news report of a pit bull attacking a guy. The dog in question wasn't even a Terrier mix, and no where close to having any "pit bull" in it's breed. I can't help but wonder how many dogs that people now can't determine the actual breed and just call the a "pit bull"?

That said John, I have used the analogy between dogs and guns myself.

The only thing that would concern me as an "foster parent" per the OP's situation is that both husband and wife did not come in for the dog. Don't take this the wrong way, but surprising your spouse with a bully breed from the local shelter would raise my own concerns if I was the adopting the bully breed out.
 

Mercury

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The other month I saw a local news report of a pit bull attacking a guy. The dog in question wasn't even a Terrier mix, and no where close to having any "pit bull" in it's breed. I can't help but wonder how many dogs that people now can't determine the actual breed and just call the a "pit bull"?

That said John, I have used the analogy between dogs and guns myself.

The only thing that would concern me as an "foster parent" per the OP's situation is that both husband and wife did not come in for the dog. Don't take this the wrong way, but surprising your spouse with a bully breed from the local shelter would raise my own concerns if I was the adopting the bully breed out.

It was definitely a shock ... even to my wife as well LOL. We were both lying in bed with her with us last night and she looks at me and says, "Honey, I can't believe there is a Pit Bull in our bed." LOL.

There is NO doubt that there will always be an ADULT with this dog when children are around! I can't STRESS enough how much the idea of having a "rescued" Pit in our house is definitely being taken serious. While she has shown herself (in one day so far) that she doesn't have any aggressive tendencies ... I don't think I will be truly comfortable ....... ever. However, I do feel that she will end up being a good dog overall.
 

acctnt shan

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The big thing is always making sure that kids/other animals/strangers/etc are aware of how to act around her, respect her space, etc.. My stepdad had a Rottie that was the sweetest dog ever, you could lay all over her and put your hand in her mouth and she was fine, she snuggled with our kitten when we got him, etc... but the minute you gave her a new bone, she became terrifying. You walked within a couple feet of her and she'd snarl. When she got like that, only my stepdad went near her.
 

Joe the meek

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but the minute you gave her a new bone, she became terrifying. You walked within a couple feet of her and she'd snarl. When she got like that, only my stepdad went near her.

One standard test we always give new dogs in our care is for "food aggression". People wonder why we have a fake arm/hand in the closet LOL

Do some research on "dog aggression testing".

If you have a fenced in yard, I'd go as far as to say to have a camera monitoring system of some sort. You'd be amazed at the kids who love to aggravate dogs behind fences.

Owning a bully breed, a bite stick and knowing how to use it is mandatory as well IMO.

Although not funny, people first meeting some of our dogs felt uncomfortable due to their breed, but the ironic thing is if some of the dogs ever left our property, they were actually scared of people and could end up shaking in fear.
 

acctnt shan

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Oh, and a pet peeve of mine is when people let dogs that are off leashes run at and "play" with a dog that is on a leash. That's asking for a fight to break out.
 

Tim

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There is NO doubt that there will always be an ADULT with this dog when children are around! I can't STRESS enough how much the idea of having a "rescued" Pit in our house is definitely being taken serious.

You say that you are taking this seriously and I'm sure you are. But two posts earlier you were talking about your three year old tripping over the dog as it was eating. You've had the dog for 3 days and you think it's okay for that combination?

I'm not trying to be an asshole on this, but little children in the same area of a feeding dog is asking for trouble.

The problem is the child's size. A bite to the face is almost instantaneous and a dog is much more willing to challenge a small child.

This dog is very new to his new pack and now is the time that she will be trying to fit in and establish her position.
 

Mercury

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You say that you are taking this seriously and I'm sure you are. But two posts earlier you were talking about your three year old tripping over the dog as it was eating. You've had the dog for 3 days and you think it's okay for that combination?

I'm not trying to be an asshole on this, but little children in the same area of a feeding dog is asking for trouble.

An excellent point and I appreciate your straight forward nature hehe.

Actually ... I didn't describe what happened all that well. She was eating a treat in the middle of the living room floor when my 3 y/o came running out at full speed with her head down when she ran into the back end of the dog. She then fell over the dog's back side.

You are right ... the speed and power of this dog is formidable and would be SEVERELY damaging if not fatal if she decided to suddenly attack.

........ but if we all lived in such a state of fear of things ... would we truly be living?

.... I have a shot gun in the event this dog must be put down immediately ... but so far, she doesn't seem to be a real threat in any way ....... but like I said, I am not going to be comfortable with her being alone with the kids for a long time .... if ever.
 

Joe the meek

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She was eating a treat in the middle of the living room floor when my 3 y/o came running out at full speed with her head down when she ran into the back end of the dog. She then fell over the dog's back side.

I missed the part about what your daughter did, but Tim is absolutely right on this one. A uncontrollable 3 year old mixed into this situation is really putting the dog at a disadvantage.

You may have a shotgun, but I can ASSURE you, by the time you get it, it will be too late no matter how fast you can get it.

Your wife SHOULD of consulted you first with this breed before bringing her home, particularly since you have a child this young.

Shelters (particularly county run) most of the times try to do a great job, but some just try to "push" the dogs out as long as they find a home and they don't have to be put down. Not saying it's wrong, but...setting a dog up for failure doesn't do anyone much good.

I sincerely hope this situation works out for you, but having a child that young with a dog of this breed who's past history is relatively unknown is rolling the dice IMO.

Make sure you have baby gates put up in the house if possible, this way the dog is still in the house and a part of the family, but can still be "quarantined" in an area of the house when you can't immediately supervise it. It will also help ensure that the child can't come into contract with the dog and do something stupid (which the young child has no clue about) unsupervised (particularly if your not home but your wife and family are).

ANY new dog into the family mix could be set up for failure VERY easy concerning what your daughter did. Thing is, if it was a hound mix, it wouldn't make the news.

On average, the most aggressive dogs I've ever come across are usually the smaller ones. Thing is, having a spitzer (sp?) take a snap at you is no real big issue as you could easily kick them across the room if you had to (which I'd never do although I'd be lying if the thought hadn't occurred to me LOL), but a 50lb dog of muscle is a whole different story.
 

Tim

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We have two small boys in the house, 2 and 4.

When we decided to get a dog, we wanted to get a larger breed because of where we live (out in the middle of nowhere). We decided on a Doberman (I have had 2 before and knew the breed well) So we went to a well known breeder. We made sure we met the puppies parents to see check on their temperament and we got the puppy at 8 weeks old. This was almost 3 years ago, so we only had the one boy at the time.
We wanted the puppy to grow up with the kids and absolutely know his temperament.
When Shadow (our dog) was a puppy, we would make sure that he was very socialized when eating so that he understood that there was no competition for food. Petting him and interacting with him while he was eating so he was always comfortable when the kids were around.

Fast forward 3 years and he is the best dog ever. He loves the kids to death and they do everything together... But here's the thing, now when I feed him, he's in the kitchen behind a gate alone. I keep the kids and the dog separate during his morning feeding. He's still very good about his food and never has he shown any aggression. And I trust him...

But he is still an animal, he is NOT human and does not think like a human. This is the mistake that most people make. He works on the pack mentality.
Even if there is a .0001% that someday he will not feel good, have a sore tooth, gets his toe stepped on, etc. I will NOT risk my children or the dog. It's not worth it. An 80lb Doberman that stands as tall as my two boys needs to be respected. Like I said earlier, all three of them are "brothers" and Shadow would fight to the death to protect those boys. I never worry about them playing together all day long... but when it comes to food, I don't risk any of them. It's not worth it
 

Mercury

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Excellent advice, gentlemen. The baby gates are a good call!

Yes, I do wish she would have called me when she was down at the shelter regarding the breed ... I would have talked her out of it.

She did show some worrisome activity yesterday evening when my father-in-law came over. She just stared at him and shied away from him every time he would try to get close to her to offer her a treat. She even did a low growl while staring at him. Now ... I'm not familiar with this breed ... I don't know if it was a "nervous" growl or an aggressive one. She didn't show her teeth and her hair didn't stand up but the fact that she is so nervous around Men makes me a bit concerned. The past 48 hours she has shown no signs of concern with the wife, her sister and the kids but she does seem to show signs of being nervous around grown men. This suggests a trigger to me ... but again ... its like I don't really KNOW as of yet and I would hate to condemn her based on "new dog behavior" ...

Actually, Joe you made a good point about the shelter wanting to "push" the dogs out quickly. This is what I don't get because there is a husky there that they didn't even want Rachel (my wife) to look at because we have two young kids ... yet they felt that Ava was appropriate enough to take home. I wonder what kind of testing they do to determine such things ... how often do they test?
 

Alien Allen

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If this dog came from a rescue org. they did a piss poor job on their part.

A good rescue place will make sure the dog is a match for a family. That includes what the house is like and the yard is like along with some background checking on the potential family.
 

Panacea

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If this dog came from a rescue org. they did a piss poor job on their part.

A good rescue place will make sure the dog is a match for a family. That includes what the house is like and the yard is like along with some background checking on the potential family.


True, I'm surprised
I couldn't adopt a pomeranian here because I didn't have a fenced yard. I thought that was pretty harsh, as pomeranians can be apartment dogs...but anyway, it's odd they'd let someone take a dog home without a little more background...at least ensuring everyone in the family knows about it lol.

Not to bash on ya though, Merc, I hope it all turns out well. Definitely sounds like she's afraid of men, I'd just carefully keep socializing her.

Someone with more knowledge can correct me, but what do you think of a soft muzzle? Maybe get one for those high risk situations? (Maybe those cause more stress than they are helpful, idk)
 

Joe the meek

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I wonder what kind of testing they do to determine such things ... how often do they test?

Animal shelters are like mickey d's. They may have one in every county, and you know what you're going to get, you just don't know how you're going to get it.

We have pissed some people off due to our requirements. Personal references, verbal interview and home inspection at the very minimum. However, you can have a "trial run" with the dog at a home, no strings attached, and if the dog ever has to come back to us, we take it back NO questions asked. Since most dogs are with us for at least 6 months, we have a VERY good idea of the animals behavior and what kind of placement would be a good fit for the animal (someone living on the third floor in an apartment wouldn't be a great fit for a high energy dog LOL). However, in all honesty, a woman coming in looking for a dog with children and no husband (if she is married) wouldn't get very far without having us meet the husband first and making sure he is "on board" with the idea. A pet for us a part of the family, which requires a family decision. You'd be amazed that some people will actually lie to get an animal.

Hard part about dealing with a shelter is knowing the animals past history. Dogs can't talk. Honestly, a shelter environment isn't a great place for a dog to show you it's true potential.

If you're father in law looks older, it could be the dogs previous owner was about the same age as the previous owner or something along those lines.

For what it's worth, I don't think I can remember a dog ever having a problem with a woman, it's usually ALWAYS men.

Tim said dogs are animals and we tend to forget that, the sad fact is that men can be animals as well. Dogs can't speak, but I've seen plenty of men who treat their dogs like shit.

Highly suggest the baby gates. Spend the money and get the ones that bolt to the door frame. Also seriously consider getting a training collar (one that can vibrate as well as shock). Our dogs don'e even need a shock, a vibrate warning will usually suffice. Like anything else, you can get what you pay for. For a bully breed, spend the money and get a good collar.

Do you have a fenced in yard? How much room do you have for the dog outside? If you don't have a fenced in yard, ALWAYS keep the dog on a lead on OR off your property (remember that prey instict I mentioned about?)

I suggest feeding the dog twice a day, just don't leave a full bowl of food on the floor all day long. Always feed the dog separately from your children. NEVER leave your children around a dog unsupervised.

Although I may be screaming caution, after 7 years, the BEST dog I ever have "owned" is a pit bull (not really what she was, but it's what every calls her LOL). You do however have a higher responsibility now due to the dogs breed. Too many people think it's "cool" to have a "tough" dog and are clueless, and it's the breeds reputation that pays for it.

Heck, some people don't even have a clue how much you can increase the chances of aggression by keeping a dog on a chain. That said, if you have a fence out back, beware. Kids can be mean and some like to screw with a dog behind a fence. Problem is, dogs can associated that "screwing" with small children. Heck, parents don't even know how to let their children approach a strange dog, let alone even asking the owner if it's ok.
 
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Mercury

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Well .... after much talk and such ... we have decided to take her back to the shelter.

She is A VERY sweet dog and has shown that she is very loving to those who love her, unfortunately, she has shown that she is just not sure about grown men. My father-in-law was EXTREMELY upset and worried about his grandchildren being around the dog so he talked my wife into having her sent back to the shelter. He pretty much made all the points that were mentioned in this thread and even added other good ones.

My wife feels terrible about this as she really had her heart set for Ava and now feels like we are abandoning her ... I feel like it is still a bit too soon to make this decision but ... my position is a bit more neutral in the whole thing.

My wife informed the kids that we were going to take her back to have another family try her and they seemed okay with it .... my daughter (3 y/o) said, "Bring Lyndy back!" Lyndy was our Black Lab/German Shepard mix who passed away here at home a few weeks back. It was sad to hear that hehe.

Oh well ... now Rachel knows to be a little more head smart about getting another dog.

I do hope someone gets her ... maybe a single woman or something ... I really do hope she doesn't end up being put down because no one will get her ... she is too sweet for that.
 
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