Moving to Mexico:

[Tangerine]

Seriously though, I really hate this bullshit about illegal immigrants doing the jobs us American citizens wont do.We just dont want to do it for the shit wages that companies want to pay. As a general rule, the Latino workers I've had run circles around pretty much everyone else.

I work in the construction industry and witness firsthand the piss-poor work performed by underpaid illegal immigrants. They are paid shit wages and consequently dont care about the quality of work that they do.

And I work in the industry that it probably the single most dominated by the immigrant work force, and I see exactly 180 degrees the opposite. I see people who care considerably more about doing the job well than others.

As far as shit wages, guess what? Americans are every bit as responsible for driving the wages down by their choices to insist on lowest possible price for everything, regarless of quality. My business pays what it pays not because we have some grand plan to drive the standards of living down, but because it's a business that operates on a wafer-thin profit margin even in the best of circumstances. When I have an opening for a cook or dishwasher, the job pays what it pays no matter who fills it - because our budgets are set by the prices we can charge. To raise our payroll costs by 10-15% would mean 20-30% higher menu prices, which people simple will not pay when they can get a dirt-cheap meal of processed crap food down the street for half the cost.

I also wonder about the great drive and work ethic of Americans when I point out that in almost 5 years in my same restaurant, I've posted job openings for dishwashers and support personnel about 15 times or so. I have never received a single application from a white or black American. Not ONE. But my resturant pays considerably higher for those jobs than most anywhere else in the city. Hundreds of apps from Latinos - nada from anyone else. Why?

 

[Accountable]

There are upwards of 12 million people we're talking about. For you to lump them in to these generalizations is absurd.

Let's look at the generalizations of which thou bitchest, because it's apparent you read them not.

If I get caught driving 1 mile over the speed limit, jaywalking, etc, I will pay the fine without a whimper. I won't appeal that I'm being persecuted because of racism, that only people of my race are getting nabbed for jaywalking [granted, only a few actually do this on their own. The greatest caterwauling is from the bleeding hearts that claim that on their account]. There aren't any crooked politicians trying to bend the rules to get a certain group of jaywalkers citizenship to buy their votes (and every fucking one who would do so are crooked) [Sorry, I'm not backing off of that generalization until I see some independent studies. It's not generalizing the criminal aliens in any way anyway]. Nobody would come to my defense saying that I jaywalk to do work non-jaywalkers aren't willing to do .... nor would I expect them to [This generalization is also not about the criminal aliens, but again about the bleeding hearts].

So as you can see, assuming that you didn't just get pissed and refuse to read it, only one generalization out of three was about criminal aliens, and even that one I clarified.

It's every bit as misguided as it is for anyone to label as "racist" anyone who supports the political views of the Tea Party. I'd be willing to bet you've never even spoken to a single person who is in this country illegally, at least not on a personal level in a way to know anything about them or their circumstances.

You lose your bet and your stereotype. Since 2003 I've worked in retail, manufacturing, construction and now in education. Every place had/has people who were in the United States illegally. I worked side-by-side with them in the first three industries. Not one was lazy or uncaring. Every one of them put in that little extra effort, knowing that the boss could fire them without reason or pay and they could do nothing about it. A couple of them I still count at friends, though we've lost touch. Here at the high school we can freely discuss who is illegal and who's not because kids deserve an education regardless of the decisions their parents made. Most if not all of the parents are loving, hard-working, people with an eye toward the future. They are also criminals.

Bleat all you want, but these adults freely and consciously decided to break US federal law. They are stealing from their fellow countrymen who followed the rules and entered the country legally. They do not deserve special consideration simply because they've done good things while breaking the law any more than would a burglar who cleans up after himself and puts on coffee for the crime scene investigators.

 

[Accountable]

And I work in the industry that it probably the single most dominated by the immigrant work force, and I see exactly 180 degrees the opposite. I see people who care considerably more about doing the job well than others.

If you knowingly hire illegal aliens, you are breaking federal law and contributing to the problem.

 

[Tangerine]

If you knowingly hire illegal aliens, you are breaking federal law and contributing to the problem.

We hire people using the only system in place. They fill out an I-9 form and provide me with copies of the required documents. Outside of that, there is nothing more that we legally can or should do.

 

[Accountable]

 

[Minor Axis]

From a practical standpoint, it would cost billions to round up illegals and deport them and then they'd be back in a couple of weeks any way. . It seems most hopeless unless you go after employers.

No factual basis for this statement. Billions are collected every year from undocumented immigrants.

If being paid under the table, they are in fact not paying income taxes and they most likely are not paying for their medical, camped out in an emergency room*. Although they are paying sales tax and indirectly through rent, paying others property taxes.

* My understanding is that emergency rooms must treat you whether you pay or not.

I cant think of how the Illegals being here help the US except for doing the jobs no one wants to do for really cheap and getting sales tax from the things they buy.

In some cases this is true, but they are also moving into what used to be good paying jobs like construction stealing relatively good jobs from U.S. citizens. But I'll add they have accomplices in the U.S. based employers who hire them. BTW, I find your avatar most disturbing. I can't stand to watch it so I avoid looking directly at it.

I think we should start referring to every single person in this country as "criminals" then. By your standard, anyone who ever drove 1 mile over the speed limit, jaywalked, etc is a "criminal"

Hardcore rationalization. Everything is relative.

We hire people using the only system in place. They fill out an I-9 form and provide me with copies of the required documents. Outside of that, there is nothing more that we legally can or should do.

We need a national database and national ID card and a bureaucracy to manage it. Social Security would suffice in the mean time.

 

[Accountable]

From a practical standpoint, it would cost billions to round up illegals and deport them and then they'd be back in a couple of weeks any way. . It seems most hopeless unless you go after employers.



If being paid under the table, they are in fact not paying income taxes and they most likely are not paying for their medical, camped out in an emergency room*. Although they are paying sales tax and indirectly through rent, paying others property taxes.

* My understanding is that emergency rooms must treat you whether you pay or not.



In some cases this is true, but they are also moving into what used to be good paying jobs like construction stealing relatively good jobs from U.S. citizens. But I'll add they have accomplices in the U.S. based employers who hire them. BTW, I find your avatar most disturbing. I can't stand to watch it so I avoid looking directly at it.



Hardcore rationalization. Everything is relative.



We need a national database and national ID card and a bureaucracy to manage it. Social Security would suffice in the mean time.

:nod::nod: 100% agree here! :nod::nod:

I think they're pushing this "bio-data" or whatever just to make people nervous and oppose the national ID card. They can make the card hard to counterfeit without putting DNA or medical records in the card.

 

[Minor Axis]

:nod::nod: 100% agree here! :nod::nod:

I think they're pushing this "bio-data" or whatever just to make people nervous and oppose the national ID card. They can make the card hard to counterfeit without putting DNA or medical records in the card.

They might be able to issue a card based on passport data and require everyone to get a passport as a prerequisite for employment.

 

[Accountable]

It's gotta be free or it's not gonna work. Too many Americans can't afford it.

 

[IntruderLS1]

I've always thought that in general, understanding why a criminal commits a crime is the first thing you need to do to stop them re offending.:dunno

Your definition is different than most though, in all fariness.

But overall illegal immigrants contribute more to the system then they take out and the crime rate for illegal immigrants is 8 times less than those who were born here.

Rate... This is untrue, and you surly must know it. Stats is your friend. If there are 300M American, and 12M of them are illigal immigrants, you must average out the difference between the 300 and 12 when you do your math.

You sir, were amazingly quiet during the last presidency. And since Obama has gotten into office the border patrol was doubled... doesn't that count for anything?

I dare you to do and advanced search, and then post the result of your comparitive analysis.

 

[Minor Axis]

I've always thought that in general, understanding why a criminal commits a crime is the first thing you need to do to stop them re offending.:dunno

Your definition is different than most though, in all fariness.

While the motivation of some criminals is beyond redemption, understanding the reasons behind crime is excellent knowledge to possess if your goal is to reduce it. Sticks as the sole means of crime prevention is a miserable failure.