Moving to Mexico:

[Haus]

I cant think of how the Illegals being here help the US except for doing the jobs no one wants to do for really cheap and getting sales tax from the things they buy.

I just dont understand

My old boss used to hire illegals cause he could pay them really cheap. He got fined for everyone he hired.

 

[Tim]

I cant think of how the Illegals being here help the US except for doing the jobs no one wants to do for really cheap and getting sales tax from the things they buy.

I just dont understand

My old boss used to hire illegals cause he could pay them really cheap. He got fined for everyone he hired.

Look at what happened to this county when they drove out all the illegals without any forethought.

[vbtube]OjHUb9PqysI[/vbtube]

 

[Accountable]

I never said it was alright and I don't condone it at all. I'm not sure where you got that out of my posts.

I'm just laying out the facts as they present themselves.

Then put in a caveat, for cryin' out loud! I'm not particularly young and heart disease runs in my family.

And it's a fact that the US would take a HUGE hit if every illegal was rounded up in one day and sent packing. That's why I am in favor of doing it right. Like I said, close the boarders first and foremost, then figure out how to deal with those already here.

And I'm actually in your camp when it comes to dealing with the reasons why people come here. If we can make it less attractive to come here or better yet, make it more attractive to stay at home, it would go a long way to solving this problem. It's in our interest to help Mexico get it's house in order. If Mexico was as financially stable as Canada, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Agreed. And btw, we'd deserve the "HUGE hit" for going so long bending the rules.

 

[Minor Axis]

My old boss used to hire illegals cause he could pay them really cheap. He got fined for everyone he hired.

Instead of spending billions on a 2000 mile fence, I think it could be more effective to manage employers but it would take a bureaucracy to do it and it would be based on a national data base of citizens. But that is just my impression not based on any sound knowledge of the situation.

 

[Tangerine]

right now its aimed at Obama, but a few years ago it was aimed at Bush. until something gets done, no matter who is in office they are gonna get blamed. i live in a city where we have alot of illegals here. i know for a fact, that alot of them are here involved in gangs, commiting murder, robbing people, etc. i also see how it affects our medical system here in the city.

And I once lived in a neighborhood full of blacks, many of home were in gangs, commiting murder, robbing peple, etc. I'm sure they were a huge drain on our medical system, as well as welfare, foodstamps etc. The number of American-born people in this scenario eclipses the number of "illegals."
Why not the same outrage - if truly the objection is only about the behnaviors and not about where they are from?

I support the idea of deporting ANYONE who is nothing but a drain on our system - even if they were born here.

 

[Tangerine]

ok but what about the cost of education, health care, most dont pay taxes, increase on our welfare system, costs of prison system to house the ones who commit crimes.....

No factual basis for this statement. Billions are collected every year from undocumented immigrants.

 

[Accountable]

Instead of spending billions on a 2000 mile fence, I think it could be more effective to manage employers but it would take a bureaucracy to do it and it would be based on a national data base of citizens. But that is just my impression not based on any sound knowledge of the situation.

They were planning to beef up the IRS; I think it was about making sure people buy health insurance. They'd be better used monitoring employers. I'd be impressed if it happened, but I'm not holding my breath. Too many campaign contributors make too much money off the status quo.

 

[Accountable]

No factual basis for this statement. Billions are collected every year from undocumented immigrants.

Undocumented immigrants? You mean the criminals who are illegally invading the country?

 

[Tangerine]

Undocumented immigrants? You mean the criminals who are illegally invading the country?

No I mean people who came to this country and are living a normal, contributing everyday life with good jobs, strong families and high moral values. I mean people who would have done anything and everything necessary to immigrate through "proper channels" if there were any system in place for them to do so. But a simple, working-persons VISA does not exist. The fact that they do not have a valid VISA (a class B misdemeanor) does not push them into the realm of "criminals" in my eyes.

I also don't refer to anyone who has gotten a speeding ticket as a "criminal who is creating terror and havoc on our roadways," though it would be about the same thing.

 

[Accountable]

No I mean people who came to this country and are living a normal, contributing everyday life with good jobs, strong families and high moral values. The fact that they do not have a valid VISA (a class B misdemeanor) does not push them into the realm of "criminals" in my eyes.

The fact that they have committed crimes does not push them into the realm of "criminals". Got it.

The criminals may have committed their crimes for the very best of reasons. They are criminals, nonetheless. The employers tho make the decision to commit the crimes too easy to ignore are likewise criminals. None of them deserves a pass.

 

[Tangerine]

The fact that they have committed crimes does not push them into the realm of "criminals". Got it.

The criminals may have committed their crimes for the very best of reasons. They are criminals, nonetheless. The employers tho make the decision to commit the crimes too easy to ignore are likewise criminals. None of them deserves a pass.

So I'm a criminal too.

 

[Peter Parka]

I've always thought that in general, understanding why a criminal commits a crime is the first thing you need to do to stop them re offending.:dunno

 

[Accountable]

So I'm a criminal too.

What, is that supposed to glean some kind of sympathy from me? If you're a criminal you're a criminal.

 

[Accountable]

I've always thought that in general, understanding why a criminal commits a crime is the first thing you need to do to stop them re offending.:dunno

I dunno about the first thing, but I agree it's important. That's why I mention the employers. That's where we need to concentrate our presecutorial energy. That's the fence we need to build - the fence between the illegal aliens and the illegal jobs. Stop the illegal jobs, stop damn near all illegal immigration ... all illegal immigration of otherwise good people..

 

[Tangerine]

What, is that supposed to glean some kind of sympathy from me? If you're a criminal you're a criminal.

I think we should start referring to every single person in this country as "criminals" then. By your standard, anyone who ever drove 1 mile over the speed limit, jaywalked, etc is a "criminal"

 

[PoopaSwoof]

I think we should start referring to every single person in this country as "criminals" then. By your standard, anyone who ever drove 1 mile over the speed limit, jaywalked, etc is a "criminal"

I rip the tags off my mattress and pillows so I'm a criminal too.:eek
We should start a gang.:nod:

Seriously though, I really hate this bullshit about illegal immigrants doing the jobs us American citizens wont do.
We just dont want to do it for the shit wages that companies want to pay. Illegal immigration is IMHO largely responsible for the flat wages we have seen for the past few decades. I work in the construction industry and witness firsthand the piss-poor work performed by underpaid illegal immigrants. They are paid shit wages and consequently dont care about the quality of work that they do. Yes they work long hard hours and only really want to take care of their families and such but, in so doing, they have degraded the quality of life for working American citizens. The employers who hire illegals are just taking advantage of the situation and have no vested interest in solving the problem.

We do desperately need immigration reform but I dont really think that corporate America wants it to happen. Therefore it wont.


Poop

 

[Accountable]

I rip the tags off my mattress and pillows so I'm a criminal too.:eek
We should start a gang.:nod:

Seriously though, I really hate this bullshit about illegal immigrants doing the jobs us American citizens wont do.
We just dont want to do it for the shit wages that companies want to pay. Illegal immigration is IMHO largely responsible for the flat wages we have seen for the past few decades. I work in the construction industry and witness firsthand the piss-poor work performed by underpaid illegal immigrants. They are paid shit wages and consequently dont care about the quality of work that they do. Yes they work long hard hours and only really want to take care of their families and such but, in so doing, they have degraded the quality of life for working American citizens. The employers who hire illegals are just taking advantage of the situation and have no vested interest in solving the problem.

We do desperately need immigration reform but I dont really think that corporate America wants it to happen. Therefore it wont.


Poop

I agree with all you said except for them not caring about the quality of their work. Many/most certainly care; the boss doesn't. If he did, he'd either hire skilled workers or train the workers he hires. You can care all day long, but if you ask how to do something right & are told not to worry about it, just get the job done, eventually you stop asking.

 

[PoopaSwoof]

I agree with all you said except for them not caring about the quality of their work. Many/most certainly care; the boss doesn't. If he did, he'd either hire skilled workers or train the workers he hires. You can care all day long, but if you ask how to do something right & are told not to worry about it, just get the job done, eventually you stop asking.

You are right about the ultimate responsibility for job quality.
The main difference is that a legal skilled tradesman can usually explain to the boss(in english) why this or that should be done right without worrying about being replaced immediately. I do this on a regular basis and point out how they will save money in the long run. I work with illegals every day and I do like and respect quite a few of them. Too bad they came here illegally. If they get caught and shipped out tomorrow, I wont cry one bit.

 

[Accountable]

I think we should start referring to every single person in this country as "criminals" then. By your standard, anyone who ever drove 1 mile over the speed limit, jaywalked, etc is a "criminal"

Oh cry me a river! You know damn well your comparison is as valid as comparing apples and paint.

If I get caught driving 1 mile over the speed limit, jaywalking, etc, I will pay the fine without a whimper. I won't appeal that I'm being persecuted because of racism, that only people of my race are getting nabbed for jaywalking. There aren't any crooked politicians trying to bend the rules to get a certain group of jaywalkers citizenship to buy their votes (and every fucking one who would do so are crooked). Nobody would come to my defense saying that I jaywalk to do work non-jaywalkers aren't willing to do .... nor would I expect them to.

 

[Tangerine]

Oh cry me a river! You know damn well your comparison is as valid as comparing apples and paint.

If I get caught driving 1 mile over the speed limit, jaywalking, etc, I will pay the fine without a whimper. I won't appeal that I'm being persecuted because of racism, that only people of my race are getting nabbed for jaywalking. There aren't any crooked politicians trying to bend the rules to get a certain group of jaywalkers citizenship to buy their votes (and every fucking one who would do so are crooked). Nobody would come to my defense saying that I jaywalk to do work non-jaywalkers aren't willing to do .... nor would I expect them to.

There are upwards of 12 million people we're talking about. For you to lump them in to these generalizations is absurd. It's every bit as misguided as it is for anyone to label as "racist" anyone who supports the political views of the Tea Party. I'd be willing to bet you've never even spoken to a single person who is in this country illegally, at least not on a personal level in a way to know anything about them or their circumstances.