Moving to Mexico:

[Staci]

The problem with the original post is that a) it's aimed at Obama and implies that this is all his fault, which simply isn't true. b) it's taking the extreme cases of immigrants. c) it doesn't take into account the fact that the US economy is in part built on the back of cheap, illegal labour. d) it doesn't offer anything in the way of what to do about the situation.

Check out Accountable's idea on page 1 of this thread, rather than just attacking Obama for something that is not his fault, surely it would be better to come up with a solution to the problem?

right now its aimed at Obama, but a few years ago it was aimed at Bush. until something gets done, no matter who is in office they are gonna get blamed. i live in a city where we have alot of illegals here. i know for a fact, that alot of them are here involved in gangs, commiting murder, robbing people, etc. i also see how it affects our medical system here in the city.

 

[edgray]

right now its aimed at Obama, but a few years ago it was aimed at Bush. until something gets done, no matter who is in office they are gonna get blamed. i live in a city where we have alot of illegals here. i know for a fact, that alot of them are here involved in gangs, commiting murder, robbing people, etc. i also see how it affects our medical system here in the city.

Of course, I can imagine the problems. We have a similar situation here in Spain with Moroccans.

so, the question is, what to do about it?

Your country has 2 very large borders: 1 to the north, and one to the south. The northern border causes no problems. The reason why is because Canadians can enjoy a great standard of living and great employment opportunities in their own country. However, in the south, Mexico can't boast the same.

 

[Staci]

your right, mexico cant boast the same. but why isnt president calderon doing anything about it? instead he comes over here and 'slams' the american people who want a tighter reign on the southern border

 

[edgray]

your right, mexico cant boast the same. but why isnt president calderon doing anything about it? instead he comes over here and 'slams' the american people who want a tighter reign on the southern border

I couldn't begin to know why Calderon isn't doing anything about it. Mexico is a poor nation, perhaps he is glad so many leave for the US.

 

[Staci]

I couldn't begin to know why Calderon isn't doing anything about it. Mexico is a poor nation, perhaps he is glad so many leave for the US.

or look at the fact that many of the 'officials' are under the take from drug lords. so maybe another way to line the pockets per say

 

[edgray]

or look at the fact that many of the 'officials' are under the take from drug lords. so maybe another way to line the pockets per say

corruption is always rife in poor nations. It's bad enough here in Spain.

 

[edgray]

From Factcheck.org:

But most economists and other experts say there’s little to support the claim[does immigration claim US jobs?]. Study after study has shown that immigrants grow the economy, expanding demand for goods and services that the foreign-born workers and their families consume, and thereby creating jobs. There is even broad agreement among economists that while immigrants may push down wages for some, the overall effect is to increase average wages for American-born workers.

Immigration is healthy for all nations, it just has to be managed.

 

[Staci]

From Factcheck.org:



Immigration is healthy for all nations, it just has to be managed.

ok but what about the cost of education, health care, most dont pay taxes, increase on our welfare system, costs of prison system to house the ones who commit crimes.....

 

[edgray]

ok but what about the cost of education, health care, most dont pay taxes, increase on our welfare system, costs of prison system to house the ones who commit crimes.....

well it should only be legal immigrants who are entitled to any kind of welfare or health care. everyone contributes some tax though, even illegal immigrants purchase things. The cost of prisons shouldn't be a problem, any illegal immigrant really should really be deported.

 

[Tim]

I love this. The U.S. and her citizenry are expected to put up with the abuse of other nations, and if anybody dare to raise a question, they're attacked with the racist stick.

There is not one racist bone in my entire body sir, and I take issue with your use of the term in my direction.

The reason this piece is so powerful, is because it's so true. If anybody, from any nation were to have these expectations of another country, it would be clear to the world that it was unreasonable.

Here in America... We're not even allowed to talk about it.

If a group of strangers moves into your house, without your permission, and expects and demands that you take care of them. They expect and demand that they have control of your TV remote. They eat your food and expect you to not be late on your next grocery run. Etc etc etc... but if you say anything about it, you're an evil racist.

Dude...

You sir, were amazingly quiet during the last presidency. And since Obama has gotten into office the border patrol was doubled... doesn't that count for anything?

there is nothing wrong with the OP post. in mexico they are MUCH harder on people that come across their boarders. if you are stopped at any time (and they can stop you for NO REASON at all) you MUST produce papers. your visa, your birth certifacte your drivers license.... and mind you when they stop you they are all holding AK47's!!!!....

But we aren't in Mexico, we hold ourselves to a better standard here. That's precisely why you aren't stopped at gun point and asked for your papers.

right now its aimed at Obama, but a few years ago it was aimed at Bush. until something gets done, no matter who is in office they are gonna get blamed. i live in a city where we have alot of illegals here. i know for a fact, that alot of them are here involved in gangs, commiting murder, robbing people, etc. i also see how it affects our medical system here in the city.

Illegal immigrants have a MUCH lower crime rate than native born Americans. This is a fact that you cannot wish away. Do illegal immigrants commit crimes, absolutely! but not at the rate us Americans are or not at the rate the media would have you believe.

ok but what about the cost of education, health care, most dont pay taxes, increase on our welfare system, costs of prison system to house the ones who commit crimes.....

Most DO pay taxes. Once again, you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own set of facts. Studies have actually found that the amount of taxes paid into the system by illegal immigrants was more than they were taking form the community. There was a net gain in revenue from the illegal immigrant community. Not to mention all the Social Security taxes paid in that will never be claimed by illegals.

Read about Prince William County in Virginia. When they chased out all of the illegal immigrant it financially devastated the county.
If you could flip a switch and every illegal immigrant just vanished, it would create such economic turmoil that we could slip into another depression. Areas with high concentrations of illegal immigrants would collapse financially. Businesses would need to shut their doors and tax revenue would take a major hit. Schools would close, hospitals would close and everyone would be affected.

If you want to address the problem, it needs to be done right. You close the boarders first and foremost, then deal with the people already here. Some needing to go but the majority would need a meaningful path to citizenship.

 

[Minor Axis]

MOVING TO MEXICO


Dear President Obama:
I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my
health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.

We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. Into
Mexico, and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements.

We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration
quotas and laws.

I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would
you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I'm on my way
over?

Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.

2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might
need, whether I use them or not.

3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.

4. I want my grand kids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking
(bi-lingual) teachers.

5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture
and history.

6. I want my grand kids to see the American flag on one of the flag
poles at their school.

7. Please plan to feed my grand kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy
access to government services.

9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico , but, I don't plan to
purchase car insurance, and I probably won't make any special effort
to learn local traffic laws.

10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo
from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every
patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.

11. I plan to fly the U.S. Flag from my house top, put U S. Flag
decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do
not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.

12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or
have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.

13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be
extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or
about the strain we might place on their economy.

14. I want to receive free food stamps.

15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.

16. I'll need Income tax credits so that although I don't pay Mexican
Taxes, I'll receive money from the government.

17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov't pays $4,500 to help me
buy a new car.

18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican
Social Security program so that I'll get a monthly income in
retirement.

I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things
for all his people who walk over to the U.S. From Mexico . I am
sure that President Calderon won't mind returning the favor if you ask
him nicely.

Thank you so much for your kind help.

P.S. Your the man!!

Great post for showing how screwed up the reality of the U.S.'s immigration policy is. I'd question No.12. "good job". There are jobs, I don't know how good they are based on being paid under the table. But I'm sure they are an improvement for the Mexican immigrants. Going to Mexico as an illegal, I'm fairly confident your job there would be a step down.

I'm totally against spending billions on a 2000 mile fence. I just saw an article in Popular Science about a virtual fence, a series of towers that senses people sneaking across the border. This might be more practical/affordable.

PS- Quoting the worst President of our lifetimes does not help ones credibility.

That's crap and I'm pretty sure you know it. Illegal immigration has been a major issue since Reagan and before. The "Right" flamed GW Bush regularly for coddling illegal aliens. It was under his watch that the phrase "undocumented immigrant" was coined.

But it is used a a political ploy to attack the current President. Standard operating political procedure used by all political parties.

 

[Staci]

You sir, were amazingly quiet during the last presidency. And since Obama has gotten into office the border patrol was doubled... doesn't that count for anything?



But we aren't in Mexico, we hold ourselves to a better standard here. That's precisely why you aren't stopped at gun point and asked for your papers.



Illegal immigrants have a MUCH lower crime rate than native born Americans. This is a fact that you cannot wish away. Do illegal immigrants commit crimes, absolutely! but not at the rate us Americans are or not at the rate the media would have you believe.



Most DO pay taxes. Once again, you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own set of facts. Studies have actually found that the amount of taxes paid into the system by illegal immigrants was more than they were taking form the community. There was a net gain in revenue from the illegal immigrant community. Not to mention all the Social Security taxes paid in that will never be claimed by illegals.

Read about Prince William County in Virginia. When they chased out all of the illegal immigrant it financially devastated the county.
If you could flip a switch and every illegal immigrant just vanished, it would create such economic turmoil that we could slip into another depression. Areas with high concentrations of illegal immigrants would collapse financially. Businesses would need to shut their doors and tax revenue would take a major hit. Schools would close, hospitals would close and everyone would be affected.

If you want to address the problem, it needs to be done right. You close the boarders first and foremost, then deal with the people already here. Some needing to go but the majority would need a meaningful path to citizenship.

tim most do pay taxes, in the form of buying goods or illegaly getting a social security card in which they are paying federal taxes for a different person per say. where you live there may be a different set of facts, but where i live they are taking more from the comunnity than they are paying in. in reference to the prison system, most HERE are not deported they serve their sentances then are deported back to their home country.

and your right, i can have my own opinion. i will never say that i know ALL the facts to anything and this would be one of the first times that i have posted in the politics thread. and now i shall leave

 

[Minor Axis]

From Factcheck.org:
Immigration is healthy for all nations, it just has to be managed.

Immigration is not the issue, illegal immigration is.

 

[edgray]

Immigration is not the issue, illegal immigration is.

Really? Because the OP mentions things like healthcare which doesn't apply to illegals....

And immigration and illegal immigration are tied together. How many illegals you end up with is related to how you manage your legal immigration.

 

[Tim]

tim most do pay taxes, in the form of buying goods or illegaly getting a social security card in which they are paying federal taxes for a different person per say. where you live there may be a different set of facts, but where i live they are taking more from the comunnity than they are paying in. in reference to the prison system, most HERE are not deported they serve their sentances then are deported back to their home country.

You're right in the fact that some areas are effected differently than other areas. But overall illegal immigrants contribute more to the system then they take out and the crime rate for illegal immigrants is 8 times less than those who were born here.

and your right, i can have my own opinion. i will never say that i know ALL the facts to anything and this would be one of the first times that i have posted in the politics thread. and now i shall leave

I'm sorry if you took offense to anything I said or how I worded it. It was NOT an attack on you or your statements. Maybe I should tone it down a little because I do tend to debate quite vigorously, but that doesn't mean I don't respect the opposition view.
So please don't let me drive you out of this section. Just know that I don't have anything against ANYONE on this site (except maybe Accountable ) It's never personal with me... just honest debate.

 

[hart]

PS- Quoting the worst President of our lifetimes does not help ones credibility.

:homo:

 

[skyblue]

makes me laugh......you get a few thousand sneaking into a huge country from a neighbouring country and you complain....you should try living on a small overpopulated island in europe where you get tens of thousands flooding in from africa,asia and the middle east

 

[edgray]

makes me laugh......you get a few thousand sneaking into a huge country from a neighbouring country and you complain....you should try living on a small overpopulated island in europe where you get tens of thousands flooding in from africa,asia and the middle east

:homo:

 

[Accountable]

You're right in the fact that some areas are effected differently than other areas. But overall illegal immigrants contribute more to the system then they take out and the crime rate for illegal immigrants is 8 times less than those who were born here.

I really hate this lame excuse for an argument. It's okay to break the law as long as you give back.

Y'know, I'll bet the mafia gave back to its local community more than it took as well. They never should have railroaded Capone. Bootleggers of the 20's certainly gave more than they took.

Is that going to be a criterion for every crime now? "Well sure he killed her, but look at all the good he's done for society." ......................... Oh yeh, that actually happened.

 

[Tim]

I really hate this lame excuse for an argument. It's okay to break the law as long as you give back.

Y'know, I'll bet the mafia gave back to its local community more than it took as well. They never should have railroaded Capone. Bootleggers of the 20's certainly gave more than they took.

Is that going to be a criterion for every crime now? "Well sure he killed her, but look at all the good he's done for society." ......................... Oh yeh, that actually happened.

I never said it was alright and I don't condone it at all. I'm not sure where you got that out of my posts.

I'm just laying out the facts as they present themselves.

And it's a fact that the US would take a HUGE hit if every illegal was rounded up in one day and sent packing. That's why I am in favor of doing it right. Like I said, close the boarders first and foremost, then figure out how to deal with those already here.

And I'm actually in your camp when it comes to dealing with the reasons why people come here. If we can make it less attractive to come here or better yet, make it more attractive to stay at home, it would go a long way to solving this problem. It's in our interest to help Mexico get it's house in order. If Mexico was as financially stable as Canada, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.