Mormonism and Jehovas Witnesses

[Johnfromokc]

I wanted to discuss the theological aspect of it, like how the Jehovas Witness have their own translation of the bible not based on the original scriptures or how Mormons have their whole Book of Mormon with the native americans actually being jews that came to america on a raft and forgot they were jews...

It's all man made-up bullshit - every bit of it. It's all Abrahamic in origin, modified by one group or another to meet a chosen end, that end being the mind control of of the practitioners of any given religion.

As a whole though, I have noticed that being "Aethiest" is the cool new thing. Its like rebelling. So you have people being aethiests to 'rebel'. In my oppinion though, Aethiests are always angry people. They spend a lot of time trying to disprove God, but to me it seems like they have to continuously convince themselvs. In my life so far, I havent seen anyone bash an aethiest for not believing in God but I see plenty of Aethiests bashing others for their beliefs.

FYI, the day I finally realized the Abrahamic religions were a lie was one of the most joyful days of my life. I've never been more happy and content than I am today. I'm open to any evidence however, and as such I am an Agnostic Atheist. When Jesus comes to my house and turns well water into beer and armadillo's into prime cut ribeye's, call me Saint John the Convinced.

The problem with believers is their thin skin. If their "faith" was solid, the questions of non-believers would roll off them like water off a ducks back. When they get all butt-hurt and offended, that shows their frustration at their own doubt.

 

[The Doc]

It's all man made-up bullshit - every bit of it. It's all Abrahamic in origin, modified by one group or another to meet a chosen end, that end being the mind control of of the practitioners of any given religion.



FYI, the day I finally realized the Abrahamic religions were a lie was one of the most joyful days of my life. I've never been more happy and content than I am today. I'm open to any evidence however, and as such I am an Agnostic Atheist. When Jesus comes to my house and turns well water into beer and armadillo's into prime cut ribeye's, call me Saint John the Convinced.

The problem with believers is their thin skin. If their "faith" was solid, the questions of non-believers would roll off them like water off a ducks back. When they get all butt-hurt and offended, that shows their frustration at their own doubt.

I dont have thin skin bud, you wont offend me. I am curious though. So when did you get this realization that Abrahamic religeons was false. What was the reasoning behind it?

 

[Joe the meek]

The problem with believers is their thin skin. If their "faith" was solid, the questions of non-believers would roll off them like water off a ducks back. When they get all butt-hurt and offended, that shows their frustration at their own doubt.

Funny

I always have doubts, but for most people I know including myself, you couldn't be further from the truth.

Then again, you know everything:thumbup

 

[Stone]

....................

The problem with believers is their thin skin. If their "faith" was solid, the questions of non-believers would roll off them like water off a ducks back. When they get all butt-hurt and offended, that shows their frustration at their own doubt.

Let's see how thin skinned you are
Do you really take the Stalinist approach to destroying religion for social solidarity ?
In what manner might you rationalize denial?
MA 'gets-off' on fantasy land beliefs of his own as an argument for attacking the beliefs of others.
Your position would obviously be dangerous to personal freedoms.
MA's is merely a disingenuous approach to rationalize his own belief system that he's created out of a baseless fantasy of a spirit world ( baseless because it's built on what he describes as 'hope' with out a basis, baseless faith). Or is it a rationalization ( pathetic logic, imo ) that facilitates his attack on beliefs outside his confusing agnostic position?


Well?

 

[Johnfromokc]

I dont have thin skin bud, you wont offend me. I am curious though. So when did you get this realization that Abrahamic religeons was false. What was the reasoning behind it?

Doc, I wasn't necessarily referring to you as being thin skinned. I can't recall any interaction with you concerning religion. It was just a general comment toward all believers based upon my anecdotal experience.

I came to my conclusion over time. Unlike the majority of Christians, I actually read the bible completely through at least twice and attended many bible studies. I, like most Christians, simply accepted what the bible said and my bible teachers taught me - for a while at least. There were just too many illogical positions that were difficult to accept, and I began questioning and searching for answers.

I could probably write a book on my experiences, but it essentially comes down to this. As far as Christianity is concerned, there is zero historical or verifiable archaeological evidence that a man named Jesus ever existed. No scribe of that time ever saw fit to record this man's existence. It is all 100% second hand, decades after his death at the earliest, most hundreds of years after he was alleged to have lived, and 100% of it hearsay. Perhaps there could have been some documented evidence in the Library of Alexandria had it not burned, but the fact remains there is zero verifiable evidence.

Add in the fact that Christianity is the most modern in a long line of ancient religions that claimed a saviour, born of a virgin, killed and resurrected and it becomes clear that Christianity is myhology like all the religions that preceded it.

When you stop and give it just a little thought, it's pretty easy to reject the Abrahamic religions as mythology.

 

[Tim]

For me, it was after being an unquestioning devout Christian for 18 years that I started to question it. It all fell apart when I learned that Christianity is nothing more than a Hodge podge of religions that came before it. It was nothing more than a perfected version of former religions all rolled into one.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

How do YOU feel about THEM?

You're asking about two entirely different groups,which has led to responses about the general concept of religion instead.Perhaps if you were more specific aboutr your subject matter, and could hold an educated discussion about it, you'd be treated with a little more respect.

 

[Johnfromokc]

 

[Minor Axis]

\In my life so far, I havent seen anyone bash an aethiest for not believing in God but I see plenty of Aethiests bashing others for their beliefs.

Spend more time in these forums or any religious forum and you'll see it.

MA 'gets-off' on fantasy land beliefs of his own as an argument for attacking the beliefs of others.

The typical response of a thin skinned theist, lol. Don't believe him, read my posts for yourself. BTW, he can't even get his story straight. My references to fantasy land is not beliefs, Stone's fantasy land theology is his belief. And Mr Agenda likes accusing people of having agendas. :24:

 

[Stone]

Spend more time in these forums or any religious forum and you'll see it.



The typical response of a thin skinned theist, lol. Don't believe him, read my posts for yourself. BTW, he can't even get his story straight. My references to fantasy land is not beliefs, Stone's fantasy land theology is his belief. And Mr Agenda likes accusing people of having agendas. :24:

Spend more time in these forums or any religious forum and you'll see it.

It cuts both ways.

My references to fantasy land is not beliefs

Sophistry.
You can formulate a concept based upon hope and pretend all day long it isn't a belief, but it's pure hypocrisy when associated with your denigration of other peoples beliefs.
Some people have posted what they believe as empiricists and I have no issue with their intellectual honesty. ( that wasn't you John......you appear to have a political agenda that imposes )

read my posts for yourself.

Indeed.....and read my responses and your refusal to address your Bullshit.

Stone's fantasy land theology is his belief.

My beliefs are my beliefs. I'm not the one here trying to persuade or destroy the beliefs ( religious or non-religious) of others.
Want to post why you believe something, fine.
But you've been bullshitting the forum and it's obvious as I've pointed out in the past.

And Mr Agenda likes accusing people of having agendas.

Sour grapes.....I've hurt your feelings

 

[Stone]

Interesting authoritative reference.
A clown school graduate has spoken ( )
I'm convinced

 

[Minor Axis]

You can formulate a concept based upon hope and pretend all day long it isn't a belief, but it's pure hypocrisy when associated with your denigration of other peoples beliefs.

You don't like having your beliefs question. You can repeat the "attack" mantra as much as you like, but no one who follows your posts and bothers to read my posts will buy it unless they too are thin skinned theists. Not once in a long list of interaction with you did I call your views BS. Own up to your own shortcomings.

 

[Stone]

You don't like having your beliefs question. You can repeat the "attack" mantra as much as you like, but no one who follows your posts and bothers to read my posts will buy it unless they too are thin skinned theists.

You don't like having your beliefs question.

Not in the deceptive manner you proposed, true.
But it was you that was offensive in your hypocricy.

You can repeat the "attack" mantra as much as you like....

Thank you, I wasn't aware you were a moderator.

but no one who follows your posts and bothers to read my posts will buy it unless they too are thin skinned theists.

Is that your rationalization for not defending your actions and hypocrisy in the posts you claim you refused to read?



I don't give a shit what you think
And I've posted good reason for that


The spirit world was not amused by your weak arguments for their existence LOL!

 

[Stone]

Time for lunch and then I'm off for a family meeting.......back later.

 

[The Doc]

Doc, I wasn't necessarily referring to you as being thin skinned. I can't recall any interaction with you concerning religion. It was just a general comment toward all believers based upon my anecdotal experience.

I came to my conclusion over time. Unlike the majority of Christians, I actually read the bible completely through at least twice and attended many bible studies. I, like most Christians, simply accepted what the bible said and my bible teachers taught me - for a while at least. There were just too many illogical positions that were difficult to accept, and I began questioning and searching for answers.

I could probably write a book on my experiences, but it essentially comes down to this. As far as Christianity is concerned, there is zero historical or verifiable archaeological evidence that a man named Jesus ever existed. No scribe of that time ever saw fit to record this man's existence. It is all 100% second hand, decades after his death at the earliest, most hundreds of years after he was alleged to have lived, and 100% of it hearsay. Perhaps there could have been some documented evidence in the Library of Alexandria had it not burned, but the fact remains there is zero verifiable evidence.

Add in the fact that Christianity is the most modern in a long line of ancient religions that claimed a saviour, born of a virgin, killed and resurrected and it becomes clear that Christianity is myhology like all the religions that preceded it.

When you stop and give it just a little thought, it's pretty easy to reject the Abrahamic religions as mythology.

Its ok I didnt take your thinned skinned comment seriously. I was just saying. I want to point out to you, is has been proven, pretty much even the auethiest historians will acknowledge Jesus did walk this earth. There is way too much proof that he existed, what they question is his miracles and whatnot. It is extreamly easy to prove Jesus walked this earth, thats real easy to prove. Its Miracles, works, proving him to be Gods son etc... where the debates are.

I also noticed you only mentioned talking about Jesus. You are aware that Islam and Jews are Abrahamic also. Abrahamic are the religeons who claim descendent of Abraham, i.e Jews and Christians through Abraham and his son Isaac, and Muslims who claim through Abrahams other son Ishmael.

Yes, your correct. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are all second hand accounts. The Author Of mark is Unknown, they just named it that. But if you look into the council of Niccea, where they compiled the bible they didnt know who wrote what, if Authors were credible BUT theese 4 Books matched up.

You cant say theres no Archeological evidence about Genesis, Exodus, and the old testament of the Bible. Theres too much if anything. Just google it up. Theres millions of results.

 

[Minor Axis]

Is that your rationalization for not defending your actions and hypocrisy in the posts you claim you refused to read?



I don't give a shit what you think

You are consistently illustrating why it's impossible to continue any meaningful interaction. Once you indicated my views were BS, there was no point.

I'll repeat it for you slowly... I tell you what I would prefer to see in heaven, and you call my views BS and that I am attacking your beliefs. I question the documentation upon which your beliefs are based on. If that is an attack it's your problem. I have never linked or tried to link my desires to have a spiritual existence with the documentation that exists for what you believe.

And what makes you any better calling my thoughts BS, especially as a Christian you thought I was some poor lost soul? Your response is basically FU, lol. The reality is that your views are set in stone, that any questions are received as attacks. If you are not up for this kind of a discussion instead of lashing out blindly, and doing EXACTLY what you accuse me of doing, instead try to say something intelligent, or don't get involved.

Even if I believed in spirits, you think your views are better because you have the truth in an old moldy book manipulated by Rome to suit their purposes, lol. This will be my last tit for tat, unless you manage to say something extraordinarily witty. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Stone]

You are consistently illustrating why it's impossible to continue any meaningful interaction. Once you indicated my views were BS, there was no point.

I'll repeat it for you slowly... I tell you what I would prefer to see in heaven, and you call my views BS and that I am attacking your beliefs. I question the documentation upon which your beliefs are based on. If that is an attack it's your problem. I have never linked or tried to link my desires to have a spiritual existence with the documentation that exists for what you believe.

And what makes you any better calling my thoughts BS, especially as a Christian you thought I was some poor lost soul? Your response is basically FU, lol. The reality is that your views are set in stone, that any questions are received as attacks. If you are not up for this kind of a discussion instead of lashing out blindly, and doing EXACTLY what you accuse me of doing, instead try to say something intelligent, or don't get involved.

Even if I believed in spirits, you think your views are better because you have the truth in an old moldy book manipulated by Rome to suit their purposes, lol. This will be my last tit for tat, unless you manage to say something extraordinarily witty. I'm not holding my breath.

You are consistently illustrating why it's impossible to continue any meaningful interaction. Once you indicated my views were BS, there was no point.

I see your point.
Once you've been shown to be a Bullshitter, it would be more logical from your pov to avoid attempting a rebuttal that would only drag out the conversation.

Thank you for conceding you are a Bullshitter

I tell you what I would prefer to see in heaven....

Wow.....that's the first time I think you've used the term 'heaven' in a conversation with me.
As an agnostic with an empirical mindset, isn't the concept of recognizing the possibility of heaven a major contradiction in your personal philosophy? .......wait a minute.....you're Bullshitting me again!!!

and you call my views BS and that I am attacking your beliefs.

Yeah, getting called out for hypocrisy seems to have upset you.
Well.....that's debate.

I question the documentation upon which your beliefs are based on.

No....your line of questioning was disguised in comparing 'stories' and why one was more or less believable than the other.
MA.......this is exactly the issue I have with you.
You are intellectually dishonest.
You did wind up challenging my personal beliefs, but I didn't present them for debate let alone as fact.
You attacked me as if I was a fundamentalist.

You fucked up and I have called you on it.
You are only making yourself look worse by continuing on in this vein of attack.

I have never linked or tried to link my desires to have a spiritual existence with the documentation that exists for what you believe.

I never claimed you did.
You claim a belief in a fantasy spirit world with no basis for the rationalization other than an issue of it being a belief.......even more interesting is that it's hope......
Hope:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope
excerpt>

Hope is the emotional state which promotes the belief in a positive outcome related to events and circumstances in one's life.

You are a hypocrite.

You have a belief with out any basis, call it hope, and attack me on my personal beliefs .
Do you see me arguing with anyone else over their personal beliefs at this time?
I'm not because they projected their position with out attacking me.

Go back and reread my posts in this or any thread. I have not challenged anyone to debate the correctness of what I believe.
You picked me out to challenge while violating you're own logic and admit that your intention all along was to attack Christian beliefs.

You are intellectually dishonest.



You're a hypocrite.

And what makes you any better calling my thoughts BS

What makes me better?
The issue isn't me....the issue is you. And it's not just your thoughts that are Bullshit, it's your honesty in approaching me in the manner that you did.
I think you are a weasel.

especially as a Christian you thought I was some poor lost soul?

I think you've lost a few marbles.

Your response is basically FU, lol.

And the horse you rode in on

The reality is that your views are set in stone

That's my name, don't wear it out....

If you are not up for this kind of a discussion instead of lashing out blindly, and doing EXACTLY what you accuse me of doing, instead try to say something intelligent, or don't get involved

Let me guess, every thing I've posted went completely over your head.
I suspect you've been used to kicking the crap out of fundamentalists.
You fucked up again.

Even if I believed in spirits....

Wow......disclaiming your faith in a fantasy spirit world and all I had to do was show you what a hypocrite you are.
Fantastic!
Maybe you'll use a better line on the next target you choose?

you think your views are better because you have the truth in an old moldy book manipulated by Rome to suit their purposes,

:eek....sour grapes ..............

This will be my last tit for tat, unless you manage to say something extraordinarily witty. I'm not holding my breath.

Meh.

 

[Minor Axis]

Stone, you laid it all out, lol. Night...

 

[Stone]

Stone, you laid it all out, lol. Night...

That I did.

'night

 

[Minor Axis]

That I did.

'night

Your view of things...