Libertarians and your 'Liberty'

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Mercury

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To say that Paul is against welfare is an understatement. He's rabidly against any form of social support. And here comes another contradiction. His support of the OWS. The OWS isn't just a leftwing anti-business socialist movement. It does address social pressures from the recent economic melt down and argue for a greater involvement of the government in supplying economic need to those in distress. Whether you are for or against the OWS on their politics, their core argument is about social and economic equity.

This also caught my eye when I read that and I agree with your statement on the OWS. This is one of the largest things that does concern me with Paul as a Nation without any sort of social support is simply bound for revolution as we Humans do not like inequality on many levels.

His extremely tight fiscal policies would definitely be beneficial for the United States in one (bust most likely two) Presidential terms by putting the reins on the overspending but I most definitely would NEVER vote him in as Emperor for Life ... not that I think I would for anyone ... ever hehe.

Overall, the term "Liberty" sure does seem to be in the eye of the beholder, huh?
 
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Stone

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......................

Overall, the term "Liberty" sure does seem to be in the eye of the beholder, huh?


It surely does.

I don't generally think in terms of 'liberty'...more so the concept of 'freedom' and it's relationship to social responsibilities. There are limits, the most obvious being free speech and yelling fire in a crowded theater.
This discussion on 'liberty' is relatively new territory for me and I'm finding it difficult to understand the concept that libertarians revere because they don't seem to define it well.

I have a feeling libertarians are falling back on the historical relevance of the term, and impart a worth to it based on past accomplishments.
I think it's easy to see that society is much more complex today and that simplicity ( as a solution ) can have much more complex results today than in historical perspective.

I think society of today needs relevant solutions, not the blinkers of libertarians.
 

Johnfromokc

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389629_422805931078257_108038612554992_1611905_1166577742_n.jpg
 

Stone

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LMAO! I have seen that picture before ... it does have a bit of truth to it.


I've never seen the cartoon before, but Libertarian philosophy does aim at ending controls ( legislation/regulation ) of abusive economic behavior that are needed for a stable society.
The more I read of it the more barbaric it seems. It's slanted so those with the most power and those willing to practice the most abusive and antisocial behavior are granted a distinct economic advantage at a legislative level.
 

Mercury

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I've never seen the cartoon before, but Libertarian philosophy does aim at ending controls ( legislation/regulation ) of abusive economic behavior that are needed for a stable society.
The more I read of it the more barbaric it seems. It's slanted so those with the most power and those willing to practice the most abusive and antisocial behavior are granted a distinct economic advantage at a legislative level.

Yeah, that is what got me a little more nervous when I started researching Ron Paul more and more. The ideals are fantastic when you hear the man speak, but once reading into his books, or any other Libertarian political agenda, there is too much of "releasing the reigns" so to speak.
 

Accountable

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Wow. Page after page of mutual masturbation. Bigots are the same the world over, I see. The target group doesn't even need to be around for the hate to continue flowing.
After this thread, it's easy to imagine a few rednecks sitting on a porch laughing at each other's nigger jokes.
 

Johnfromokc

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Wow. Page after page of mutual masturbation. Bigots are the same the world over, I see. The target group doesn't even need to be around for the hate to continue flowing.
After this thread, it's easy to imagine a few rednecks sitting on a porch laughing at each other's nigger jokes.

Whats up with the butt-hurt comments? Truth hurts eh?

And those who understand what libertarianism truly is are bigots? Really?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! :24: Libertarianism is as close to outright racism as one can get and not wear the hood & robe. Those same bigots you visualize sitting on the porch telling ni&&er jokes (your words) are the same as several people I PERSONALLY know who now embrace libertarianism. It's true - some of the most redneck, bigoted fucktards I know claim to be libertarians. They rant on and on about black "welfare queens breeding little thug predators" and the blacks in the hood "driving Cadillacs to the liquor store to cash their welfare checks and buy some crack and then go pimp some ho's". By-gawd that wouldn't happen in their libertarian world.

Bottom line - if this thread bothers you, then you know that those of us with dissenting opinions have hit the nerves of truth - and it is time for you to engage in a little self-reflection to discover why it bothers you so.
 

Stone

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Wow. Page after page of mutual masturbation. Bigots are the same the world over, I see. The target group doesn't even need to be around for the hate to continue flowing.
After this thread, it's easy to imagine a few rednecks sitting on a porch laughing at each other's nigger jokes.


You sound upset......something I posted? :D
 

Minor Axis

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The chapter " Campaign Finance Reform" is a hoot....:D

Paul claims the solution to bribing and buying influence is to reduce the size of government to the point there aren't many politicians left the bribe. And I do mean politicians....the people that are elected, not the bureaucrats that fulfill the daily chores.
The topic in this chapter is campaign reform, not bureaucratic bloat.


this is incredibly childish logic. There would certainly be fewer politicians to bribe and the overhead would naturally be a lot less. But this would not reduce the influence, only the necessary costs to generate the same amount of influence.


and don't forget to read the Supreme Court's decisions about the interpretation of constitutional law at the same time. It appears to be a lot different from Mr. Paul's version. Since Mr. Paul is not a Supreme Court justice let alone a lawyer, his opinions are merely his personal interpretations to justify his political position, not constitutional law.



Much of this short chapter is merely muddled bullshit. Anybody interested in Ron Paul's thoughts should take a close look at this short chapter. He's using an argument of freedom of speech as an argument to accept the corruption in campaign financing while at the same time arguing that a reduction of the size of the Federal Government is the solution.
Here is an example of his logic:

Paul has taken the situation completely out of context. He has intentionally confused the concept of being able to freely express one's self versus one of buying influence.
[FONT=&amp]There are significant differences between expressing one's self, paying for an opinion to be expressed versus paying for an opinion to be embraced. The latter is of course, in the realm of bribery.[/FONT]


This particular chapter is an argument to reduce representation at the legislative level.
Is that really in alignment with the concept of 'liberty'?
I think not.


Read this chapter....it's quite telling if you do it objectively and ignore the emotionalism Paul tries to project.

Ok, you're making me rethink my RP feelings. ;)




Outstanding cartoons. :)
 

Accountable

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What was there before that, blacks and whites working side by side? Or the blacks were not allowed in the military at all?
You miss the point. John implies that the state gov'ts are racist and federal is not. A more accurate statement would be that state gov'ts WERE racist and the federal WAS TOO, but accuracy doesn't serve propagandists well.
 

Minor Axis

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Libertarians are generally more interested in their own liberation than in yours.

Yes, the focus of Libertarian is on "me and my rights", less on "us and our rights" as a social group.

You miss the point. John implies that the state gov'ts are racist and federal is not. A more accurate statement would be that state gov'ts WERE racist and the federal WAS TOO, but accuracy doesn't serve propagandists well.

I suspect you looked something up to get that info on Wilson. My question is still left to be answered. What existed before Wilson established segregation in the military? This is fairly soon after the Civil War. And what was his motivation, discrimination or harmony? I'm not implying either, just asking.

Regarding this last statement of yours, look at when Wilson served, turn of the 20th century, 40 years after the Civil War. Now look at LBJ and the Civil Rights era, 60 years later, something that happened as rapidly as it did (civil rights) because the U.S. Government was proactive. At this point it was 100 years after the Civil War and still segregation and discrimination was a cemented social norm enforced by white Southern America. In this case the Southern States were racist and the U.S. Govt made them change, if not their attitudes, their policies.

You've said in the past in this forum that they should of just let it (civil rights) sort itself out on it's own. And I've countered you in the past that giving it a couple hundred years to "work itself out" is the less desirable method of promoting the standard upon which this country was supposedly created- "freedom". Of course your version of freedom is about "me", mine is about "we" and what human dignity should stand for. Discrimination based on race, religion, and gender should not be allowed, period. That is my moral position, no slights or offense intended. :)
 
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